Sending new guns to a tech.

[Guest nemokingdom]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. I think it's a good solution to the issue that bar a few manufacturers (TM is the obvious one), airsoft guns are generally built to a poor standard even if the parts used are made from good quality materials. They are mass produced in a factory by someone that is probably over-worked, underpaid and under-trained and the same goes even for expensive RIFs.

 

The last AEG I bought I sent straight to a tech the day I got it, not to upgrade or install anything new, just to give it a general service. It does add an additional cost but I'm hoping it will save money in the long term since the stock parts should last a lot longer.

 

I'm sure a lot of people will be in the 'leave it alone until it breaks' camp and I think there's a lot to be said for that but I've seen countless people at skirmishes have issues the first time they use a gun and for me it's worth the extra £75~ (prices do vary a lot) just to have someone who knows what they are doing to rebuild it and make sure everything is functioning properly. 

[Adolf Hamster]

the reason it tends to not be recommended is because in a world where the only entry requirement to be an "airsoft tech" is to convince people to pay you for your work there's often not much guarantee that sending a gun off to be worked on will necessarily result in that gun actually being any better or frankly even as good as it was to begin with.

 

the workers who put these things together might only be doing it for 3 pennies and half a button per day but they do it day-in-day out and will be pretty proficient at at least doing it repeatably.

[EDcase]

Nope, definitely not worth it in my opinion.

I've had around 25 AEGs, mainly from the lower end, CYMA, JG, A&K and a few ClassicArmy and ICS.

None have ever failed me mechanically plinking at home or at a game day.  (I did have an occasion where a battery clip came off the fuse)

 

It can be hard to find a trusted tech.  As @Adolf Hamster said, there's no guarantee it will come back better than when you sent it. 

Much better to get a budget CYMA or JG backup because any gun can have a problem or break on a game day.

Open up the backup and learn to tinker yourself.  Most upgrades and servicing are quite easy and you can find a tech for the complicated things.

[Guest nemokingdom]

21 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

the reason it tends to not be recommended is because in a world where the only entry requirement to be an "airsoft tech" is to convince people to pay you for your work there's often not much guarantee that sending a gun off to be worked on will necessarily result in that gun actually being any better or frankly even as good as it was to begin with.

 

the workers who put these things together might only be doing it for 3 pennies and half a button per day but they do it day-in-day out and will be pretty proficient at at least doing it repeatably.

 

I guess that's the case if you just send it off to anyone, but wouldn't you just send it to a well known and reputable person?

[EDcase]

2 minutes ago, nemokingdom said:

I guess that's the case if you just send it off to anyone, but wouldn't you just send it to a well known and reputable person?

If you feel better having it serviced by a reputable tech and don't mind the cost then go ahead.

It doesn't necessarily mean it will last much longer or prevent any failure unless you request to replace all the parts with high end bits.  Then of course you should buy a higher end AEG and hope it doesn't fail.  (High end ones still have failures too)

[Albiscuit]

The reason I wouldnt is a warranty issue. 

 

I can use a brand new gun for a while safe in the knowledge that a warranty will still cover me IF it does go wrong. The moment a tech opens it up the warranty is lost and if the tech is just giving it a service an a stock part fails then your screwed.

 

I would rather use it until it does go wrong or I feel it needs some upgrades then send it off.

 

But each to their own.

[EDcase]

^ Good point that

[Guest nemokingdom]

1 minute ago, EDcase said:

If you feel better having it serviced by a reputable tech and don't mind the cost then go ahead.

It doesn't necessarily mean it will last much longer or prevent any failure unless you request to replace all the parts with high end bits.  Then of course you should buy a higher end AEG and hope it doesn't fail.  (High end ones still have failures too)

Well most stock guns are not shimmed perfectly and issues like airseal, aoe, motor meshing are super common in almost all brands of AEGs so actually I do think you can almost guarantee that by having someone who can build a gearbox to a high standard you will improve the lifespan of your gearbox by decreasing the stress on all of your stock parts.

[Adolf Hamster]

Just now, EDcase said:

Open up the backup and learn to tinker yourself.

 

there's a lot to be said for learning a decent standard of teching.

 

the skills involved can be learned, however the care and attention to detail you'll put into your own gun can't be bought.

 

not to mention, it really opens up the secondhand market when you don't have to worry so much about the internal condition of a gun (which you know you can fix) and just worry about external condition (which is about the only thing you can know from pictures)

 

2 minutes ago, nemokingdom said:

I guess that's the case if you just send it off to anyone, but wouldn't you just send it to a well known and reputable person?

 

depends on where your getting your information from as to their reputation.

 

after all, people paying for a tech's services usually will be doing so because they don't have the confidence to do the work themselves, so how are they verifying the work is good?

 

goes back to the above, when you do the work yourself at least you know what has/hasn't been done, good and bad.

[Guest nemokingdom]

8 minutes ago, Albiscuit said:

The reason I wouldnt is a warranty issue. 

 

I can use a brand new gun for a while safe in the knowledge that a warranty will still cover me IF it does go wrong. The moment a tech opens it up the warranty is lost and if the tech is just giving it a service an a stock part fails then your screwed.

 

I would rather use it until it does go wrong or I feel it needs some upgrades then send it off.

 

But each to their own.

yeah that's definitely the best argument against it, I guess the only downside is that you don't get the small performance increase from having potentially slightly better shimming and airseal.

[EDcase]

 

2 hours ago, nemokingdom said:

Well most stock guns are not shimmed perfectly and issues like airseal, aoe, motor meshing are super common in almost all brands of AEGs so actually I do think you can almost guarantee that by having someone who can build a gearbox to a high standard you will improve the lifespan of your gearbox by decreasing the stress on all of your stock parts.

Says who?

Sure the shimming may not be perfect but that won't adversely affect the operation for years. The air seal may not be perfect so you may loose 10fps or so.

AOE is not so critical in a standard RPS AEG.

I think you've been watching too many scary videos 😉

 

 We've given our advice.

Of course you can do whatever you want 😁

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by EDcase

[Guest nemokingdom]

1 minute ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

there's a lot to be said for learning a decent standard of teching.

 

the skills involved can be learned, however the care and attention to detail you'll put into your own gun can't be bought.

 

not to mention, it really opens up the secondhand market when you don't have to worry so much about the internal condition of a gun (which you know you can fix) and just worry about external condition (which is about the only thing you can know from pictures)

 

 

depends on where your getting your information from as to their reputation.

 

after all, people paying for a tech's services usually will be doing so because they don't have the confidence to do the work themselves, so how are they verifying the work is good?

 

goes back to the above, when you do the work yourself at least you know what has/hasn't been done, good and bad.

That's fair enough, I definitely think learning to tech yourself is good, I can sort of muddle through it myself but I just don't have the time unfortunately.

 

And personally I would get my information on reputable techs from places like the recommend a tech tab on this forum or other community-based sources as those are generally where the most unbiased and well informed people are.

[Lozart]

9 minutes ago, nemokingdom said:

Well most stock guns are not shimmed perfectly and issues like airseal, aoe, motor meshing are super common in almost all brands of AEGs so actually I do think you can almost guarantee that by having someone who can build a gearbox to a high standard you will improve the lifespan of your gearbox by decreasing the stress on all of your stock parts.

 

All the issues you have highlighted are nowhere near as bad or as common as they used to be though. 

 

You are correct that a well built gearbox will reduce stress on the standard parts but look at it like this - once you've taken out all the parts likely to contribute to poor performance, you've removed any of the stock parts liable to stress failure anyway so that becomes a moot point. If you're chasing performance then absolutely a well set up gearbox is important but performance isn't always compatible with reliability.

 

It's absolutely worth having a gun serviced if only to clean out the earwax that some manufacturers use for grease, but that's not the same thing as sending it straight off for "upgrades", and it really should be something that owners ought to be able to do themselves.

[Tackle]

If it works, just use it until it doesn't, use the time between those two points to gain the knowledge to enable you to sort most problems when or if they occur. 

I've personally never used a "tech", & given some of the horror stories I've heard over the years, I probably never will. 

[Guest nemokingdom]

3 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

All the issues you have highlighted are nowhere near as bad or as common as they used to be though. 

 

You are correct that a well built gearbox will reduce stress on the standard parts but look at it like this - once you've taken out all the parts likely to contribute to poor performance, you've removed any of the stock parts liable to stress failure anyway so that becomes a moot point. If you're chasing performance then absolutely a well set up gearbox is important but performance isn't always compatible with reliability.

 

It's absolutely worth having a gun serviced if only to clean out the earwax that some manufacturers use for grease, but that's not the same thing as sending it straight off for "upgrades", and it really should be something that owners ought to be able to do themselves.

 

I agree with what you're saying but I'm not talking about having upgrades done straight out of the box, I was specifically talking about only having it serviced.

 

[Cr0-Magnon]

Let's face it, many things we do as airsofters are not because they're essential. A lot of people change parts before they break, just in case those parts break and need changing....which of course in itself is somewhat illogical.

 

If you have a trusted tech and you're happy paying extra plus possibly waiting a good while longer (many reputable techs have long lists), then why not eh. I'm also guilty of this but do think in general we do spend far more time worrying about tweaking our toys than just getting stuck in on a game day. 

[Jacob Wright]

The only guns I’ve had issues with are the ones that have been opened up and touched by ‘techs’. 
 

It could be a coincidence but me and my brother both bought our rifles on the same day about 5 years ago. My ASG M4 has never given me a problem ever. His G&G Mk18 was in and out to the local tech after it was ‘serviced’. Both I would consider to be reputable brands that aren’t known to have inherent issues. 
 

So would I give a brand new, or even error-free gun to a tech just to service? Nope and I’d probably advise others against it too. 
 

 

[Rogerborg]

37 minutes ago, nemokingdom said:

wouldn't you just send it to a well known and reputable person?

 

[who?] [citation needed]

 

The problem I have with airsoft teching is that I wouldn't pay someone professional prices to work on a toy, but I wouldn't trust my toys to anyone not charging enough.

 

By which I mean, if you're not charging £40+ an hour, you're not doing it professionally.  Sam at Kingdom of Airsoft appears to know his stuff and not be a wankstick (and I like that he's very clear on the T&Cs), but given that he's running an actual business with commercial premises and staff to pay for, the prices are in the "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" range.

 

The one person I'd trust to actually do the job to a decent standard and for a price that I might consider worth it, would be Luke at Negative.  Which is why he's booked months in advance, and he does it part time as a labour of love.

 

Ramsay Strachan also knows his stuff, but doesn't currently sell his services. There are doubtless other competent people out there in a similar situation, having realised that not many airsofters are prepared to pay for a genuinely professional job. I wouldn't want to nag a talented amateur into doing work that they weren't passionate about, that's how you get "Ah, sod it, good enough" slapped together builds.

 

And I wouldn't trust a job to someone whose work I hadn't seen (as in, video of in-progress work) so that I could be sure that they could do a better job than me.

 

If you've got other folk in mind to praise, let's please not be coy.

[Guest nemokingdom]

15 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

[who?] [citation needed]

 

The problem I have with airsoft teching is that I wouldn't pay someone professional prices to work on a toy, but I wouldn't trust my toys to anyone not charging enough.

 

By which I mean, if you're not charging £40+ an hour, you're not doing it professionally.  Sam at Kingdom of Airsoft appears to know his stuff and not be a wankstick (and I like that he's very clear on the T&Cs), but given that he's running an actual business with commercial premises and staff to pay for, the prices are in the "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" range.

 

The one person I'd trust to actually do the job to a decent standard and for a price that I might consider worth it, would be Luke at Negative.  Which is why he's booked months in advance, and he does it part time as a labour of love.

 

Ramsay Strachan also knows his stuff, but doesn't currently sell his services. There are doubtless other competent people out there in a similar situation, having realised that not many airsofters are prepared to pay for a genuinely professional job. I wouldn't want to nag a talented amateur into doing work that they weren't passionate about, that's how you get "Ah, sod it, good enough" slapped together builds.

 

And I wouldn't trust a job to someone whose work I hadn't seen (as in, video of in-progress work) so that I could be sure that they could do a better job than me.

 

If you've got other folk in mind to praise, let's please not be coy.

 

Yeah I just sent a gun to negative airsoft actually (wasn't a new gun), I'm sure Kingdom of Airsoft is great but their quote was the more expensive of the two. 6-12 week wait time also which is not too bad I think. I've used local techs in the past too and they were mostly fine but as you say I think it's a lot better to know exactly what you're getting.

Edited November 15, 2021 by nemokingdom

[Cr0-Magnon]

9 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

The problem I have with airsoft teching is that I wouldn't pay someone professional prices to work on a toy, but I wouldn't trust my toys to anyone not charging enough.

"if you have to ask, you can't afford it" range.

 

The one person I'd trust to actually do the job to a decent standard and for a price that I might consider worth it, would be Luke at Negative.  Which is why he's booked months in advance, and he does it part time as a labour of love.

 

The other issue is how many people say "just a shim and grease please"

 

There's a lot of FOMO in airsoft - people who've never even used their guns asking how to get max range, accuracy and even ROF from them. So there's a lot of "make my gun the best it can be" which means new gears, piston, mosfet, a barrel etc and even paintjobs!

[Rogerborg]

6 minutes ago, nemokingdom said:

Yeah I just sent a gun to negative airsoft actually

 

You did put some Haribo in the package, right?  Tangfastics get the quickest service.

 

Well, you won't get any arguments about the choice of tech.

 

However, that's 4 months when you won't get to play with your new toy.  I'm not judging, I get that some of us enjoy the collecting as much as the playing, but you don't even get to hang it on the wall for that time.

 

As to the value for money, I would view it this way.  If a retailer that also did teching listed the same RIF at two prices, one "as stock, best RIF ever", one £75 higher listed as "pre-serviced, bestest RIF ever", would you pay the higher price?

 

Me, I'd be wondering what's wrong with it, that it needs pre-fixed.

 

Looking at you, VFC.

[Tackle]

7 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

The other issue is how many people say "just a shim and grease please"

 

There's a lot of FOMO in airsoft - people who've never even used their guns asking how to get max range, accuracy and even ROF from them. So there's a lot of "make my gun the best it can be" which means new gears, piston, mosfet, a barrel etc and even paintjobs!

Nothing increases range and fps better than a nice paint job 😜

Plus it's monetary value skyrockets 🤣

All jokes aside though, if I bought a brand new gun, whether it was a £120 cyma or & £600 recoil, if it then needed money spent degreasing or shimming etc, I'd be returning it to the retailer as "not fit for purpose", for either a full refund or the issues to be corrected. 

[Albiscuit]

52 minutes ago, nemokingdom said:

 

I agree with what you're saying but I'm not talking about having upgrades done straight out of the box, I was specifically talking about only having it serviced.

 

Totally get you on this, but my logic says if its open for a service, and warranty voided, why not upgrade it at the same time?

 

But then I only have 1 'upgraded' gun and that was a pointless waste of time   

 

Tell a lie, I have fiddled around with two pistols so you could say they are upgraded, but I done those myself and neither are in total working order so likely not haha

17 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

 

The other issue is how many people say "just a shim and grease please"

 

There's a lot of FOMO in airsoft - people who've never even used their guns asking how to get max range, accuracy and even ROF from them. So there's a lot of "make my gun the best it can be" which means new gears, piston, mosfet, a barrel etc and even paintjobs!

 

They quickly become triggers broom though dont they.

Like the sales posts with "everything upgraded" its not the same gun then is it? its a frankengun.

[Cr0-Magnon]

12 minutes ago, Albiscuit said:

Like the sales posts with "everything upgraded" its not the same gun then is it? its a frankengun.

 

Yep, change the stock parts on the off chance that they would have failed at some point within the next three years....sell the gun two months later! Only then are you a proper airsofter.

[Guest nemokingdom]

17 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

You did put some Haribo in the package, right?  Tangfastics get the quickest service.

Haha I didn't, missed an opportunity.

 

26 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

However, I would view it this way.  If a retailer that also did teching listed the same RIF at two prices, one "as stock, best RIF ever", one £75 higher listed as "pre-serviced, bestest RIF ever", would you pay the higher price?

 

Yeah I'd pay the high price personally, subject to the retailer having a good reputation for their work. Would also probably depend on the manufacturer, since some stuff is more prone to common issues than others. For example, VFC.