G&G CM16 Raider Worthwhile Upgrades?

[airsoftot]

Hi,

 

Just new to airsoft (never been yet) and bought a CM16 Raider (believe it's the original 1.0?). I'm wondering what the best bang-for-buck upgrades are currently? I've searched some topics but a lot seem to be outdated?

 

So far I've added a cheap red dot sight. I also wanted to remove the front sight but appears to be moulded to the outer barrel? Apparently it's a multi-piece design.

 

Moving forward I'm looking at sticking with a fairly robust/reliable rifle, preferably sticking with polymer so I can chuck it around a bit and not worry

 

Is it worth upgrading? I'm looking at a foregrip, inner barrel, hop up and outerbarrel (or just the section I need to remove front sight).. anything else?

 

I'm going to go for 1/2 games before buying anything but this is just what I had in mind.

 

Thoughts?

 

Cheers

Edited September 21, 2021 by airsoftot

[EDcase]

Is it new?

How does it shoot?

 

Probably not worth 'upgrading' internally until something breaks or you get another gun so its not a big deal if tinkering messes it up.

 

[RonLancs]

Firstly welcome, 

 

I’ll suggest what others will suggest, take it for a game first, see how you get on. 
 

(If you’re anything like I was when I started you’ll nah I wanna spend money on upgrades) haha 

 

but seriously go get a game or two under your belt, heavy(er) bb’s and you should be fine.

[airsoftot]

41 minutes ago, RonLancs said:

 

Firstly welcome, 

 

I’ll suggest what others will suggest, take it for a game first, see how you get on. 
 

(If you’re anything like I was when I started you’ll nah I wanna spend money on upgrades) haha 

 

but seriously go get a game or two under your belt, heavy(er) bb’s and you should be fine.

 

cheers

 

i've got some 0.25 bbs 

 

  

40 minutes ago, EDcase said:

Is it new?

How does it shoot?

 

Probably not worth 'upgrading' internally until something breaks or you get another gun so its not a big deal if tinkering messes it up.

 

 

I bought it second hand  looks to only have been used a couple times, no marks on it at all.

Shoots alright from what I can tell.. sometimes bbs are curling a little as they leave the barrel.. haven't tried cleaning anything yet

 

 

 

also something to add is I'm mostly going to be shooting semi so don't need any speed mods etc gun already seems to be fast enough on auto

[Fatboy40]

For me the weak spot I've found on these is the mechanical trigger, not that it's prone to failing or anything, just that it's clunky and unless you always pull it 100% back you can cause the gun to jam on semi (you clear the jam by flipping to auto and pulling the trigger again, I think due to the "anti reversal latch" engaging due to a full cycle of the gearbox not having been completed).

 

Also be conscious of what batteries you use, to high a voltage and you can fry the mechanical trigger.

[Sneaky]

I would advise that you play a couple of days with your new toy before making any changes to it.  Speak to other airsofters to when you play.

 

I assume you have or working on your UKARA?

[airsoftot]

4 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

For me the weak spot I've found on these is the mechanical trigger, not that it's prone to failing or anything, just that it's clunky and unless you always pull it 100% back you can cause the gun to jam on semi (you clear the jam by flipping to auto and pulling the trigger again, I think due to the "anti reversal latch" engaging due to a full cycle of the gearbox not having been completed).

 

Also be conscious of what batteries you use, to high a voltage and you can fry the mechanical trigger.

 

thanks for the tip i was not aware of the "jam" as you describe.

 

I have a 8.4v 1600mah and 9.6v 1600mah NiMH

 

1 hour ago, Sneaky said:

I would advise that you play a couple of days with your new toy before making any changes to it.  Speak to other airsofters to when you play.

 

I assume you have or working on your UKARA?

 

thanks

 

of course 😇

Edited September 21, 2021 by airsoftot

[Speedbird_666]

I don't normally recommend 'upgrades', but for the v1.0 Raider I would say inner barrel (stock one is like compressed tinfoil) and a Hi-Torque motor.

 

Nothing else. Not a single penny more unless the stock hop rubber is worn. Then replace that. Otherwise leave it.

 

Then: Use it. Abuse it. Break it. Bin it.

 

I tend to think of the 'old skool' Combat Machines as the Bic Biros of the airsoft world. Bloody handy when they are working good, but not worth trying to fix up when they shit themselves.

 

You will see a slight increase in accuracy with the barrel. The Hi-Torque will largely mitigate the issues with semi-auto lockup (what Fatboy is alluding to) and will give semi auto good trigger response even with lower voltage batteries.

 

And for the front sight....😜:

 

 

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, airsoftot said:

I have a 8.4v 1600mah and 9.6v 1600mah NiMH

 

They'll work, but I'd consider moving to 7.4V lipo or lithium ion as budget allows.  SkyRC S65 charger, any 7.4V lithium based batteries that you like.  Maybe change to Deans rather than mini-Tamiya if you can do basic soldering.  7.4V sounds like a downgrade but you'll actually start the day closer to 8.4V and lithium cells deliver their voltage more consistently and can supply more power than NiMH.

 

tl;dr version - snappier.

 

I'd consider 0.28g or even 0.3g BBs, but don't sweat it, shoot through what you've got.

 

Inner barrel, maybe, I haven't actually taken a close look into the G&G barrels. A ZCI or AOLS won't set you back much if you want to splurge, but clean out the stock barrel first.

 

Hop units, I'm a fan of the ZCI plastic rotary, as are a lot of folk, which is why they're hard to find at the moment.

 

Maple Leaf hop rubbers, yes please.  But clean the stock one first, the gearbox might have sneezed some snot in it.

 

Motors, yes, stock motors are piss weak compared to aftermarket.  SHS hi-torque are popular, but I chisel every penny and use Big Dragon M140s from AliExpress which have magnets capable of pulling a satellite out of orbit.

 

For the sights, if you're wearing lower face mesh (I infer semi-auto means CQB?) then you might want to throw a 1/2" or full 1" riser under your sight, which will lift it above the plastic-iron sights anyway. The front sight might be worth keeping in case of optic failure, although @Speedbird_666has proposed a viable alternative.

 

But the thing is, G&Gs are really very usable as-is, you've made a good choice.  The parts tends to work together well, they're made of a light but robust plastic, and you don't need to do anything to them (beyond cleaning the barrel and hop).  You're looking at just a few metres extra of effective range whatever you do.  Particularly if you're in CQB, just get the hop dialled in for your BB weight and the rest will be down to your aim and trigger finger.

 

Ex-Workmate Eddie has been running a completely stock G&G CM16 for years. Zero regrets, it's never once skipped a beat or been significantly outshot by anything that I've bought or fiddled with.  I don't think he's even touched the hop after setting and forgetting it back in the 2010s.

[Cheeky vimto]

Wolverine inferno & MAXX hop up. 

[Oneshotscott]

if you search on yewtoob there you'll find a potty mouthed (s)punk rock type chap who has created a rather brilliantly informative video based purely on the question you ask. 

 

Even if you don't follow his recommendations its a laugh to watch.  He's an absolute UNT©️.

[airsoftot]

Cheers I'll have a look into that. £30 for a barrel and hop up doesn't sound too bad.

 

I've had the inner barrel and hop up out.. they were a little greasy so cleaned that off will try some iso

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

I have a daft amount of guns.   For skirmishes and non-themed games, I grab the G&G CM16 that I bought years ago when I first started out.  In fact, I have a couple of them in slightly different specs.  

 

ZCI plastic hop is more set and forget than the standard one, which can creep over time.  The standard green hop rubber is pretty good, but a Maple Leaf and Omega nub is obviously a bit better.  A decent barrel is a good investment, again ZCI are fine.  An SHS high torque motor works well, but you still have the sloppy trigger, so don't worry if you can't afford one off the bat.  

 

Checking the two tiny grub screws that keep the outer barrel tight is essential.   The lack of barrel support limits what you can do re: accuracy, so don't go mad.   

 

When stripping down to fit a new hop/barrel watch that the battery wire doesn't get trapped in front of the gearbox shell as it causes feeding issues.  It can also cause mags to refuse to fit if it too loose/pushed against the base of the gearbox shell. 

 

Magwel grips can cause waffle/honeycomb mags not to fit.  

 

An inline mosfet does no harm.  

 

Personally I'd fit barrel, rubber, and hop unit in that order of importance, and only upgrade other items as they break (eventually).   Use ZCI bits as I was recommended here a few years back.  

 

A better motor won't hurt, and an inline 'fet you can use in your next rif anyway.  The upgrades won't add to the minimal re-sale value, so put the stock bits back in if you sell and keep the upgrades for the next rif too.  

[airsoftot]

10 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

I have a daft amount of guns.   For skirmishes and non-themed games, I grab the G&G CM16 that I bought years ago when I first started out.  In fact, I have a couple of them in slightly different specs.  

 

ZCI plastic hop is more set and forget than the standard one, which can creep over time.  The standard green hop rubber is pretty good, but a Maple Leaf and Omega nub is obviously a bit better.  A decent barrel is a good investment, again ZCI are fine.  An SHS high torque motor works well, but you still have the sloppy trigger, so don't worry if you can't afford one off the bat.  

 

Checking the two tiny grub screws that keep the outer barrel tight is essential.   The lack of barrel support limits what you can do re: accuracy, so don't go mad.   

 

When stripping down to fit a new hop/barrel watch that the battery wire doesn't get trapped in front of the gearbox shell as it causes feeding issues.  It can also cause mags to refuse to fit if it too loose/pushed against the base of the gearbox shell. 

 

Magwel grips can cause waffle/honeycomb mags not to fit.  

 

An inline mosfet does no harm.  

 

Personally I'd fit barrel, rubber, and hop unit in that order of importance, and only upgrade other items as they break (eventually).   Use ZCI bits as I was recommended here a few years back.  

 

A better motor won't hurt, and an inline 'fet you can use in your next rif anyway.  The upgrades won't add to the minimal re-sale value, so put the stock bits back in if you sell and keep the upgrades for the next rif too.  

 

what type/firmness rubber would you recommend?

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

For softness I would use  the softest available.  Maple leaf Macaron in 50 deg would be my go to. Use the right ML nub though.  

[airsoftot]

Cheers

 

So just to update I've been at the weekend (twice). Gun seemed to perform well enough however shots were dropping off earlier than I'd have liked with the 0.25 BBs I was using even with some hop up fliddling. Did not chrono gun so may get some more range/power if fps is 10-20% below limit. Upgrading the hop unit or rubber will potentially help here too I guess. Groupings seemed fine.

 

My mask (paintball mask) did get in the way a bit so had to spend most of the games with the rifle held up above my shoulder 😆  I took off the red dot and rear iron sights as couldn't get behind them and just used the inside rail and feel which seemed to work well. Stock position seems to be a problem, I know using goggles and a separate face guard would help but I preferred the close aggressive fights so think I'll stick with a paintball mask but might try some other brands (dye etc) to see if this will give me more room around the cheek specifically.

 

Someone was selling a foregrip cheap which felt great and helped a lot.

 

Updated list of what I want from a (any) gun:

 

- Drop stock because of mask and CQB.

- Electric trigger.

- Mid cap size between 170-250+ with remaining-capacity indicator (e.g. PTS EPM)

- Lightness

- Neutral/rear weight balance

- Straighter grip? (my wrist is bent at an awkward angle when holding the gun at head height)

 

The ARP 556 and SSG1 are more similar to what I want (stock for stock), of course they are fundamentally the same M4 just with different stocks/rail. Suppose I'll have to see if I like the SSG1 stock and what options there are in terms of adding a foregrip, just not at the very end. I don't want to rely on using the mag/magwell or c-clamp

 

Any other options I'm missing?

 

Thanks!

Edited September 27, 2021 by airsoftot

[Lozart]

15 minutes ago, airsoftot said:

Did not chrono gun

 

Errrmmm....where did you go play?

[airsoftot]

9 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Errrmmm....where did you go play?

 

International waters

 

It's shooting slower than my mates gun, which is behind chrono. It's fine

[emilianoksa]

I would just use it as it is, and on a 9.6 nimh. 

 

The G&G Raider has been around for yonks and is still perfectly playable. They are good guns, but not really worth the cost of much upgrading. 

 

Late you may get something a bit better, but the CM16 will always be worth keeping as a back up gun or something to lend to a friend.

 

And the "better" gun will not necessarily perform any better. But it will be nicer to look at and a lot more expensive.

 

It's airsoft after all. There is no equivalent of a BMW in this sport. All the brands have their weaknesses. None are 100% reliable. They are made of cheap components.

Edited September 27, 2021 by emilianoksa

[airsoftot]

2 hours ago, emilianoksa said:

I would just use it as it is, and on a 9.6 nimh. 

 

The G&G Raider has been around for yonks and is still perfectly playable. They are good guns, but not really worth the cost of much upgrading. 

 

Late you may get something a bit better, but the CM16 will always be worth keeping as a back up gun or something to lend to a friend.

 

And the "better" gun will not necessarily perform any better. But it will be nicer to look at and a lot more expensive.

 

It's airsoft after all. There is no equivalent of a BMW in this sport. All the brands have their weaknesses. None are 100% reliable. They are made of cheap components.

 

Cheers, I was just saying to my friend how I thought I may be better off leaving the CM16 alone and keeping it as a backup/spare

 

The only thing is I actually really like the gun; it's cheap, light, durable.. paint doesn't scratch etc and being the most sold gun everywhere has spares and of course there is aftermarket support for the gun itself and m4 being developed continually (such as the 250 mid cap mag). I'm not afraid to upgrade and tune all the internals, as that's something I will be doing with my main gun regardless 

 

Still just new so not familiar with all the manufacturers/models... I'll maybe see if there is a better polymer m4 base to start with

Edited September 27, 2021 by airsoftot

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, airsoftot said:

It's shooting slower than my mates gun, which is behind chrono. It's fine

 

Wow, that's some talent you've got there, being able to judge the muzzle energy of an airsoft gun by sound, or feel, or using the Force.  And no, you can't tell from comparing ranges either, given the difference that BB weights and having the hop spot on make.

 

You're not special, and if you aren't interested in playing by the same rules as everybody else, please find a different hobby.

[airsoftot]

42 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Wow, that's some talent you've got there, being able to judge the muzzle energy of an airsoft gun by sound, or feel, or using the Force.  And no, you can't tell from comparing ranges either, given the difference that BB weights and having the hop spot on make.

 

You're not special, and if you aren't interested in playing by the same rules as everybody else, please find a different hobby.

 

we shot our balls high up into the air whichever lands on the floor first is less powerful

[Cannonfodder]

That's nowhere near an accurate way of telling which gun is higher powered. Far too many variables

[emilianoksa]

14 hours ago, airsoftot said:

 

Cheers, I was just saying to my friend how I thought I may be better off leaving the CM16 alone and keeping it as a backup/spare

 

The only thing is I actually really like the gun; it's cheap, light, durable.. paint doesn't scratch etc and being the most sold gun everywhere has spares and of course there is aftermarket support for the gun itself and m4 being developed continually (such as the 250 mid cap mag). I'm not afraid to upgrade and tune all the internals, as that's something I will be doing with my main gun regardless 

 

Still just new so not familiar with all the manufacturers/models... I'll maybe see if there is a better polymer m4 base to start with

G&G  polymer is some of the best you can get.

Edited September 28, 2021 by emilianoksa

[Ebeneezer Goode]

To be brutally honest... the amount you'd splurge on "upgrades" that a) give little increase in performance (already a very subjective concept) and b) end up fcuking up an otherwise perfectly functioning gun are just not worth it.

Get out to plenty skirms and focus on improving your play, technique or tactics - that will result in much better performance in your game. Its all about the player, not the weapon.