Airsoft and Covid Restrictions While Playing on Site - Thoughts?

[clumpyedge]

So I got out this weekend for the first time since I think January. While playing I noted some good practices and some not so good which led me thinking about how much I really think playing Airsoft at the moment is or isn't a good idea....

Have you played recently?

What did you make of the sites safety implementations (this isn't intended as slamming thread so please don't name sites)?

How comfortable would you be challenging a sites procedures?

Do you understand the current procedures?

[Albiscuit]

I played a fair bit in a short period over July/August including one game that was probably not quite legit. I think something like 4/5 new sites.

 

Almost all had Covid related systems in place. One was clearly not fussed and barely mentioned it, even went so far as to say in the brief knife kills are allowed etc.

Others were quite strict and clearly had thought things though very well, I’m not shaming so I’m going to say Dogtag were VERY on the ball with their brief and Covid precautions. I felt very safe and felt they took it The most seriously.

 

Personally I feel safe at a game. Shops around me and supermarkets seem to have got very lazy with their systems and I will continue to play whilst able. I have a game booked this Saturday, although that might me looking more and more unlikely.

 

I guess I would feel comfortable challenging a site but at the same time it’s easy to keep to the rules at a game, I generally creep off on my own or in a small group, it’s easy to socially distance and I can’t think of a typical Airsoft skirmish scenario that I feel would be very risky when it comes to covid.

I guess as long as each individual is sensible it shouldn’t be too difficult or risky

[Impulse]

I've been going to pretty much every game day since my local site re-opened and, honestly, there's nothing for me to challenge. I think the procedures are fair and functional. It typically centres around social distancing (so no medic rule or knife kills and no group hugs behind the same barricade/piece of cover). I've either had the virus and not shown symptoms, or I haven't had it, so yeah I feel pretty safe going to my local site

[PopRocket123]

I'll be interested to see what people say here as I'm itching to go to a game but with a 5 month old baby at home in trying to limit my exposure as much as possible. It's not really an option until I get a car as fuck getting on a train for the foreseeable future.

[Asomodai]

36 minutes ago, Albiscuit said:

I played a fair bit in a short period over July/August including one game that was probably not quite legit. I think something like 4/5 new sites.

 

Almost all had Covid related systems in place. One was clearly not fussed and barely mentioned it, even went so far as to say in the brief knife kills are allowed etc.

Others were quite strict and clearly had thought things though very well, I’m not shaming so I’m going to say Dogtag were VERY on the ball with their brief and Covid precautions. I felt very safe and felt they took it The most seriously.

 

Personally I feel safe at a game. Shops around me and supermarkets seem to have got very lazy with their systems and I will continue to play whilst able. I have a game booked this Saturday, although that might me looking more and more unlikely.

 

I guess I would feel comfortable challenging a site but at the same time it’s easy to keep to the rules at a game, I generally creep off on my own or in a small group, it’s easy to socially distance and I can’t think of a typical Airsoft skirmish scenario that I feel would be very risky when it comes to covid.

I guess as long as each individual is sensible it shouldn’t be too difficult or risky

 

I have been with Al on all of his 4-5 skirmishes as well as 4 more sites on my own.

 

One had a marshal saying it was bending the law despite publicly saying it was all above board. There was social distancing in the safe zone but went out of the window going to and from the skirmish areas. 

 

Dogtag was well setup for social distancing due to the quality safe zone and felt good. 

 

I went to AWA Herts yesterday which has limited numbers, and strict rules as to how many people per tent and they had to have come from the same social group. They had Anti Bac liquid in every tent. They were also actively separating people at the beginning of the day during games if they got really on top of eachother.

 

The other sites I went to didn't have so much in the way of social distancing or much mention about the pandemic. All but one site had rules against knife kills. 

 

Personally I feel more at ease at an Airsoft site then on the transport to get to one, but with the higher incidences of cases this weekend at Zed Mart will be the last one for me for a while (If a lockdown is not in place by then, which is likely).

 

 

[Rogerborg]

46 minutes ago, Albiscuit said:

I’m going to say Dogtag were VERY on the ball with their brief and Covid precautions.

 

Would you say... they stamped on it hard?

 

I just tried an indoor site, they had floor markings, bottles of gloop and the usual "face coverings required" and "2m separation at table" signs.  The one-way system and distancing was strictly enforced right the way through the day... all the way up to just before the first game started.  Then that was that.

 

The thing is, any face covering that's tightly fitting and tightly woven enough to stop a 60nm fully aerosolised virus isn't going to be usable while exercising, or for some time afterwards.  Most of the non-surgical ones being sold are just for theatrical purposes.  And no, I'm not a WuFlu denier, I got my FFP3 respirators back in March, and have been keeping on top of the medical studies since, including on cloth mask efficacy.

 

Woodland, if you can and do distance yourself in the safe zone, you might be OK.

 

Indoors, if anybody there has the WuFlu, you're likely to get it.

 

I'd make your decision to attend on that basis.

 

Aside, on my reading of the latest Scotch regulations, indoor over-18 sports are now criminalised again, but gov.scot either wrote the regs wrong, or don't understand them, because they're saying that "sports", unqualified, can continue, and everyone is taking them at their word. 🤫

[Cromulon1994]

I worked in covid wards at a local hospital as a maintenance contractor in March/April, people on ventilators ect.

No masks for us, working in close proximity. 

I'm sure I got it. Had the loss of taste before it was advertised as a symptom and the cough and felt rough as hell. 2 weeks on 90 odd quid a week for my trouble.

 

I've been to one game, outdoors. Used common sense.

 

I would like to go to a cqb game but I think that'll be kyboshed before I get the chance. I reckon we'll have a national lockdown within a month.

 

 

 

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Would you say... they stamped on it hard?

🤫

 

I see what you did there

 

I've been to one game, woodland. Site was very good, some of the players less so (as expected really). Safe zone was only for use by people that didn't drive or got dropped off, everyone else was working from their cars which were deliberately parked separated and alternately nose in, back end in. On check in everyone was checked with an IR thermometer and given a number. Those numbers were then used to call people in small groups for chrono and lunch. One way system was set up around the safe zone to get to the game zone, ditto for lunch and the site shop. Site shop was one person at a time, masks on.

 

In general it was good, safety and distancing was covered by the brief, plenty of sanitiser about too if needed. Some folks were less careful than others about distancing but in general it was OK.

 

Not in any rush to get to more than a game a month at the minute, if that.

[clumpyedge]

Some interesting replies!

 

Like I say I played yesterday and having done so I'm still not 100% on if I want to be regularly going just yet but that's just me having other people to worry about much more than myself.

[Rogerborg]

Mmm, I'm borderline on whether I should get it, or avoid it.  I wouldn't blame anyone for being cautious, it is properly infectuous: up to 8m and three and a half hours in air, which is pretty astonishing for a virus.

 

But speaking purely personally, I'm not prepared to reduce myself to merely existing indefinitely.  We're none of us getting this time back.

 

Based on the noises being made today, it looks like indoor may be about to get banned again though.

[clumpyedge]

31 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Mmm, I'm borderline on whether I should get it, or avoid it.  I wouldn't blame anyone for being cautious, it is properly infectuous: up to 8m and three and a half hours in air, which is pretty astonishing for a virus.

 

But speaking purely personally, I'm not prepared to reduce myself to merely existing indefinitely.  We're none of us getting this time back.

 

Based on the noises being made today, it looks like indoor may be about to get banned again though.

 

Bares no odds to me, Airsoft isnt my only hobby so losing that leaves me to concentrate on other things for the time being. It would be a very sad world if Airsoft is all anyone cared about? what else do you do for fun Mr. Borg?

[L3wisD]

54 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

But speaking purely personally, I'm not prepared to reduce myself to merely existing indefinitely.  We're none of us getting this time back.

 

This was my concern about playing Z-Mart yesterday.

Covid on the rise, and a new CQB site where no-one knows the layout, it's a recipe for utter disaster if anyone person there was infected with it.

But, it would have taken a stampede of wild horses to keep me from going in the doors yesterday, truth be told. I wasn't missing the opening day of The Mall's successor. 

 

People kept their distance in the safe zone, and were told to wear masks, and there were sanitisers on every table, and players were told they should wear a mask under their mask in the game area.

But when it comes to the game zone it stops existing.

Everyone is trying to get through every door all in a bunch, and people are mingling together in the respawn points - but it almost cannot be helped.

 

The trouble is, people - myself included, so I can't plead perfection here - would come in from a game, all sweaty, hot and out of breath and sit in the safe zone and... kind of, forget to put their masks on in the safezone. I can't say if it was intentional or not - my own excuse was that I purely forgot, it's routine, isn't it? to come in from a game, plop on the chair at your table and exhale and cool off.

 

Time will tell I guess.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

16 minutes ago, clumpyedge said:

what else do you do for fun Mr. Borg?

 

Having too-cool-for-school competitions with strangers on the internet is always good for a giggle.

 

I wasn't talking specifically about airsoft, and if this Sunday gets ronad off the table, I have other options.

 

As the weather turns though, having indoor pursuits will be welcome.  I won't say Mrs Borg cheered when she heard I'm (hopefully) out for the next two Sundays, but only because it was more what you'd call a celebratory dance.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

The short version is: I'll go airsofting as long as I'm allowed to. Its an interesting question - I can certainly imagine a situation whereby I could go airsofting but would feel weird / inappropriate about it. 

 

That being said we are in a weird/interesting position where we have to think about the relationship between our individual actions and the collective impact. For those of us who have special considerations - be it ones health, age, or proximity to those who more at risk - then yes some difficult decisions would have to be made, and they have my utmost sympathy. But for the rest of us, its a matter of doing our best to follow the government guidelines - ultimately as much as individual behaviour is a factor, the problem is so huge that really its beyond most of our pay grades.

 

Whilst I suppose there is little practical benefit for doing so, there is little harm in taking stock and being grateful that we can go and enjoy ourselves when many others, for whatever reason, can't. But I wouldn't beat myself up about it either - we can only do our best to do our best.

 

As for other hobbies - airsoft is my big hobby. My only online presence is airsoft related. I have other ways of spending my time - computer games, exercise, just dicking about in the countryside... but airsoft really combines all of what I enjoy about those respective things and the whole really is greater than the sum of its parts. 

[clumpyedge]

17 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

The short version is: I'll go airsofting as long as I'm allowed to. Its an interesting question - I can certainly imagine a situation whereby I could go airsofting but would feel weird / inappropriate about it. 

 

That being said we are in a weird/interesting position where we have to think about the relationship between our individual actions and the collective impact. For those of us who have special considerations - be it ones health, age, or proximity to those who more at risk - then yes some difficult decisions would have to be made, and they have my utmost sympathy. But for the rest of us, its a matter of doing our best to follow the government guidelines - ultimately as much as individual behaviour is a factor, the problem is so huge that really its beyond most of our pay grades.

 

Whilst I suppose there is little practical benefit for doing so, there is little harm in taking stock and being grateful that we can go and enjoy ourselves when many others, for whatever reason, can't. But I wouldn't beat myself up about it either - we can only do our best to do our best.

 

As for other hobbies - airsoft is my big hobby. My only online presence is airsoft related. I have other ways of spending my time - computer games, exercise, just dicking about in the countryside... but airsoft really combines all of what I enjoy about those respective things and the whole really is greater than the sum of its parts. 

 

 

That being said... the minority certainly ruin it for the majority. For instance I saw recently about a person who had a confirmed case and still decided to go out to a gathering resulting in numerous infections. Now while I'd like to think people who play Airsoft are pretty solid individuals and would use their noggins if they had a confirmed case other instances of behaviors doesn't fill me with much hope that they would either.

[djben9]

slightly off topic but still related in a way, i spent weeks preparing Covid documents for our grassoots football club, 18 teams and 20+ coaches

I had to detail as much as possible and some as simple as possible for people to follow, some very grateful for it and follow it all, some you dont even get a thanks from then they moan.

 

This though means our club is covered if anything should go wrong. We even have a QR code tracking system for people who attend our home games. From having two games away with my son so far, other clubs seem to not even both one bit, so its not just Airsoft sites and other venues that may be lacking here. 

Some will do the very minimum, probably due to costs, where as others will go all out to make you feel safe on the day

 

End of they day you need to make sure you are doing whats right for you and your family, as you cant rely on others to follow

[Albiscuit]

On 21/09/2020 at 10:14, PopRocket123 said:

I'll be interested to see what people say here as I'm itching to go to a game but with a 5 month old baby at home in trying to limit my exposure as much as possible. It's not really an option until I get a car as fuck getting on a train for the foreseeable future.

We all need to make our own choices and make sure what we do is sensible and have others in mind.

personally I would limit my exposure to other people in this situation too.

[Lozart]

20 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

That being said we are in a weird/interesting position where we have to think about the relationship between our individual actions and the collective impact.

 

This is the crux of the matter. Too many people in general are taking the "I'm alright Jack" approach without consideration for the wider effect they are having. It's not just about you, or your immediate household but all those people that you may come into contact with on a daily basis. You go to a group activity, someone has undiagnosed Covid and passes it to you. You don't have symptoms so you go about your life as you would, being careful but still "getting on as best you can". You go to the shops, you go to work, you go to the pub. Spreading it about for all to catch, all completely unaware that you are an asymptomatic carrier.

Yes, it's a shit situation, yes it sucks that you can't do the things you want to but this is not a scenario we have had to deal with in our lifetime (not even in my Dad's lifetime and he's 94). It's time for society as a whole to realise that it's "us" not "I".

[Rogerborg]

I would respectfully suggest that anyone concerned about the safety of themselves and their family should invest in and make effective use of FFP2 or better respirators which are now available from stock again.  Effective use means being clean shaven in order to get a good face seal. Sealed eye protection and gloves will also help.

 

Opinions vary, but I'd characterise cloths masks in non-clinical settings as being more about perception than effect.  As always, I'd encourage people to check the working and make your own decisions.

 

To be clear, I am not being passive-aggressive or dismissive.  I bought a stock of FFP3 and gloves back in March before the panic buying started. SARS-COV-2 is a real thing, dangerous to the old and those with co-morbidities plus random others, and is highly infectuous - which is exactly why relying on everybody around you to protect you is ill advised.  You wouldn't play airsoft wearing eye protection from Poundland, right?

 

For context though, SARS-COV-2 is currently killing fewer people than influenza, even if we count all "with" deaths as "from".  If you're genuinely worried about covid, you should also, no joking, no hyperbole, be more concerned about influenza. And no, I'm not saying "don't be concerned about either".  I'm saying take precautions about both.

 

I've been a workplace nag about infections for years, long before this kicked off, and have had a few pointed "They go home, or I do" conversations about selfish twunts who come in coughing and sneezing.  Distancing, avoiding touching common surfaces, alcohol scrub after any contact.  Everything we're being told to do now.   When we got the "work from home until further notice" email, I was out the door and off down the stairs (not the lifts) while everybody else was still asking "Really? Do they mean go home now?"

 

I mention all this to frame the position that I personally am not at this time concerned about SARS-COV-2 in particular, either catching or spreading it.

 

If you are concerned, then I respect that.  I'd hope it's arrived at by personal research and consideration though.

 

Anyway... looks like indoor sports have just been banned again, so there's that.

[Lozart]

5 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

For context though, SARS-COV-2 is currently killing fewer people than influenza, even if we count all "with" deaths as "from".  If you're genuinely worried about covid, you should also, no joking, no hyperbole, be more concerned about influenza. And no, I'm not saying "don't be concerned about either".  I'm saying take precautions about both.

 

 

You sure about those numbers?

Current deaths from seasonal flu this year - 355,392 https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1213-flu-death-estimate.html

Deaths from COVID-19 - 970,115

[Asomodai]

So more questions emanating from the latest Bojo speech. 

 

"The exemptions to the "rule of six" will be cut down. For example, people doing indoor team sports will now not been allowed."

 

I guess that means no indoor Airsoft venues?

 

Also gatherings of more then 15 apart from funerals which can allow up to 30. I think the new rules may not affect outdoor sites for the same reason sites could have more then 30 people in the last set of rules. 

[L3wisD]

1 hour ago, Asomodai said:

"The exemptions to the "rule of six" will be cut down. For example, people doing indoor team sports will now not been allowed."

 

I guess that means no indoor Airsoft venues?

 

I hope not, Luke said at Z-Mart they'd need to fully book every Sunday in order to cover costs. So it'd be tragic if they couldn't keep the place after opening for one game.  

[MiK]

From what I’ve read elsewhere looks like any indoor site is right royally screwed - “The Department CBQ” just closed its doors again looking like Z-Mart and ProjectX will have to follow suit ?

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

You sure about those numbers?

 

For "currently", and the UK, although I will correct that to "influenza and pneumonia".

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/latest

 

 

I present these for context.  About 1,700 people a day die in the UK, each one a personal tragedy.  I don't make light of SARS-COV-2, any more than I would any other serious disease. But it's not that special in terms of lethality, and we're never going to eradicate it, vaccine or otherwise, so it's a question of what the New New Normal is going to look like, and for how long.

 

Aside, there have been five cases of the Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus, MERS-CoV, in the UK this year (3 imported, 2 local linked to them) - that's never gone away either, there's no vaccine for it, and it has a 35% mortality rate. It just stopped spreading so fast, as many viruses do.  That's our best hope for SARS-COV-2 at this point.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Asomodai said:

"The exemptions to the "rule of six" will be cut down. For example, people doing indoor team sports will now not been allowed."

 

I guess that means no indoor Airsoft venues?

 

Looks like.  Greet Leader Nicola is about to give us the New New Normal for Scotland, which I expect to be worse, not better.

 

 

 

[Asomodai]

11 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

 

 

Looks like.  Greet Leader Nicola is about to give us the New New Normal for Scotland, which I expect to be worse, not better.

 

 

 

@GeorgePlaysAirsoftLinked me to the new regulations. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing#rules-in-other-venues-and-activities

 

If Airsoft is part of Section 3, then both Indoor and Outdoor sites are ok to keep open. 

Justin who runs the Gaol has said that nothing affects the site and will continue as normal.