Albiscuit Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tackle said: altering fps isn't just the domain of hpa users, some aeg users have been at it for years, long before hpa was a thing. As you said cheaters will cheat. You can change the FPS of most guns easily after chrono, quick change springs, swapping out bits, barrel extensions, even changing the gas you use to name a few. I suppose HPA is the easiest to ensure everything is running right and everyone can be on the same playing field as you can easily set and lock the FPS. And I believe the locks can be adjusted and unless the site insists everyone use their HPA locked guns then its all a pointless rhetoric anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted July 18, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said: and herein lies the problem, how far do we take it? if an aeg is capable of pulling an m200 spring does that count even if what's actually in there is an m95? The only way to find out is for Dibble to seize it and alter it. I can't see the CPS touching that with a bargepole. "Any missile" is explicitly in the legislation. All that said, I'm not hugely fussed about AEGs putting out or so 1.5J - "cheaters be a cheatin" indeed. It's up at the top end where it starts to get dicey in terms of dense high energy BBs versus ropey eyepro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted July 18, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Seth_Erebor said: Would it be simplistic of me to say that HPA is far easier to adjust? yes and no, compared to what gun? a scorpion evo versus a balystik reg for example you can change springs on the scorpion with less time and without tools. however for the most part, especially when talking about aeg's then yes hpa is far easier to adjust as you can do it without removing the gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProPain87 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 The way I see it, is that you should have to chrono your gun in joules on how your planning on playing, ie on the weight bb, gas, psi your using and the hop set to “roughly” where it needs to be. Any major changes to your gun during the day and it should be re chrono’d. Anyone found to be cheating the system should be banned. sites should be responsible for making sure everyone’s gun is site legal and it’s your personal responsibility to ensure your gun is legal by the law. Obviously all this can be hard to police and there has to be a little trust somewhere. Random chrono checks throughout the day would deter some but others could blatantly lie about bb weights etc. Maybe a wall of shame would deter people from cheating 😂 names and photos of all the people banned from that site and the reason as for the police chronoing our guns, I’m sure they have better things to do really and Airsoft would be outright banned before this would be a regular occurrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Nick G said: I think you are missing the point slightly, yes a heavier BB at the same velocity will have more Joules than a light one. However in reality , velocity is different. My sniper will fire a .20 at pretty much bang on 500 fps, the .36's that I use in it obviously have a lower velocity because everything in the gun is the same no stronger springs etc. BUT the .36's don't fly that much slower so the energy that they carry starts to 'creep' up , on .2's my 500 fps springer is fireing at 2.3 Joules however on .36 it chronos at 2.4 joules that's Joule creep, anything heavier and I am over the site limit of 2.5 Joules I still don’t think I’m missing the point If I throw a box of feathers and a box of lead differing results are still based on mass and velocity - not joule creep The gun produces a blast of air behind a BB That air propels the BB The efficiency of the power source, air pressure/air volume up against the BBs resistance, and barrel match all affect the balls journey through the barrel It will either be accelerating all the way or reaching a peak (either terminal velocity or the power runs out) A heavier ball is not guaranteed to have a lower velocity on exit as it may take more air pressure to build up before it moves or the peak velocity may occur at different points in the barrel But it probably will have a lower velocity as per your example Its the same physics of mass & velocity Joules are not ‘creeping’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick G Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 No, the power output should remain fixed regardless of weight of BB and in a perfect world it would. However once you start getting into sniper weights you do see measured power output 'creeping' up. It may be that heavier BB's just make better use of the set up, spring power, barrel to bolt volume ratio, barrel length in GBB etc . Joule creep is a convenient term to describe something that most airsofters don't understand. Lets face it we have all had the ' I'm going to use heavier BB's to bring the fps down' discussion with someone who's gun is shooting hot. An interesting experiment with a sniper is to fire a selection of weights and measure the output, you tend to see the joules peak then drop off significantly which demonstrates what weight gets the most from the particular set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasman Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Ahh the joy's of physics. I just say keep it simple, keep it uniform and constant, test all at every game and cheating stops and safety improves. Test all on .2s for FPS and if you want the ultimate test all sniper rifles on joules. My greatest joy is getting close to snipers inside of minimum engagement and shooting the shit out of them LOL. We have the FPS limits just firmly apply those limits stopping any gun from use that goes over, end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted July 21, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 21, 2019 So I threw a 250mm 6.02mm barrel with a Maple Leaf rubber into the MP5K and it went from 315 to 356 fps. Oops. This is why we chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 31 minutes ago, Rogerborg said: So I threw a 250mm 6.02mm barrel with a Maple Leaf rubber into the MP5K and it went from 315 to 356 fps. Oops. This is why we chrono. that's why I didn't see you with it! I seen 4 guys get told they were too hot while I was in line. Also did you see the remark about the owners gun bein hot so he was banned from playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted July 21, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 21, 2019 Very sadface, much back-in-bagness. The Maple Leaf + standard nub wasn't putting any hop on at all, so at lunch I tried throwing in the nub from my M4 which looks slightly bigger, but still no luck. G36 backup-backup gun to the rescue. There's a bit of eraser rubber in there now which is is producing a visible bulge (fnar) so I'll see how that works out next weekend. I didn't see those chrono fails, but it's heartening to hear that the site owner got his own gun chronoed. As it should be, but it's nice to know that it's being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 yea multiple people failed, a degul, a vector and some m4 I think, gave them a few chances on the vector and m4 still failed but the deagle was a nope do not pass go do not collect 100 pounds. was really nice to see. When they ask if I am using green gas I say yes but is nuprol 2.0 higher than green gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 Happy for us, sad for them. It's quite the shock when your trusty gun turns on you. I really really need to learn to leave them well enough alone. I believe that Nuprol 2.0 is considered to be standard pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 10 hours ago, Musica said: was really nice to see. When they ask if I am using green gas I say yes but is nuprol 2.0 higher than green gas? doesn't really matter, if it's below the energy limit then how that's happening isn't an issue. of course if you chrono on 2.0 then switch to 4.0 then that's questionable. when people bother to chrono my pistols it's always on black because that's how they're run on the field. 44 minutes ago, Rogerborg said: Happy for us, sad for them. It's quite the shock when your trusty gun turns on you. I really really need to learn to leave them well enough alone. indeed, i have my one gun that i refuse to meddle with, stays in the bag as a backup gun incase the others suffer from technical difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Think I am just going to insist on getting it chronod next time as I ran around with it all day again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Musica said: Think I am just going to insist on getting it chronod next time as I ran around with it all day again. What gun is it and is it stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musica Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said: What gun is it and is it stock? TM Hi-capa 5.1 D.O.R completely stock running on TM 5.1 30 round magazines. Will add the TM red dot to it at some point soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted July 22, 2019 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said: when people bother to chrono my pistols it's always on black because that's how they're run on the field.. Exactly, same issue when some sites want you to turn off your aeg's hop to chrono, if mines set for range/accuracy, that's what I'll be set for in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 18 minutes ago, Tackle said: Exactly, same issue when some sites want you to turn off your aeg's hop to chrono, if mines set for range/accuracy, that's what I'll be set for in game. indeed, although luckily most sites round here don't do that. would be funny to chrono the m4 "turn your hop off" "it is off" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Musica said: TM Hi-capa 5.1 D.O.R completely stock running on TM 5.1 30 round magazines. Will add the TM red dot to it at some point soon. It will be fine on the chrono on 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Druid799 Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 I just don’t see what the problem is with just chrono’ing on .2’s with a set threshold that you can’t cross . if your gun passes on a .2 is using you usual .4 ammo going to suddenly turn it in to a gun that’ll fire through armour plate ? No of course not ! Even if you do get an increase in the delivered energy from a hit it’s hardly going to kill/maim or do permanent damage to anyone is it ? What would you rather take a hit from , an ‘illegal’ sniper that’s delivering a bit more energy on impact or a burst from some cockwomble with a ridiculous rate of fire M4 thats firing at 348.5fps and so perfectly legal ? I know my answer 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengus Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Druid799 said: I just don’t see what the problem is with just chrono’ing on .2’s with a set threshold that you can’t cross . if your gun passes on a .2 is using you usual .4 ammo going to suddenly turn it in to a gun that’ll fire through armour plate ? No of course not ! Even if you do get an increase in the delivered energy from a hit it’s hardly going to kill/maim or do permanent damage to anyone is it ? What would you rather take a hit from , an ‘illegal’ sniper that’s delivering a bit more energy on impact or a burst from some cockwomble with a ridiculous rate of fire M4 thats firing at 348.5fps and so perfectly legal ? I know my answer 😉 Do you have 0.2g 6.5mm bbs? 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Druid799 Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Aengus said: Do you have 0.2g 6.5mm bbs? 😂 No sorry but I do have a pointed stick that’ll fit ! 🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Druid799 said: I just don’t see what the problem is with just chrono’ing on .2’s with a set threshold that you can’t cross . if your gun passes on a .2 is using you usual .4 ammo going to suddenly turn it in to a gun that’ll fire through armour plate ? No of course not ! Even if you do get an increase in the delivered energy from a hit it’s hardly going to kill/maim or do permanent damage to anyone is it ? It amazes me how people seem to think a few fps will be a game changer. I used to play private games with no limits and I am trying to get them going again. We all regularly ran ridiculous guns firing over 500fps and they were full auto and guess what no one died. You would get a few more bleeders if like me you played in short sleeves but nothing major. I wish we could run a lot higher in this country because it would be simpler in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted July 22, 2019 Supporters Share Posted July 22, 2019 58 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said: It amazes me how people seem to think a few fps will be a game changer. I used to play private games with no limits and I am trying to get them going again. We all regularly ran ridiculous guns firing over 500fps and they were full auto and guess what no one died. You would get a few more bleeders if like me you played in short sleeves but nothing major. I wish we could run a lot higher in this country because it would be simpler in the long run. problem is everyone running around blasting 2.5j+ at each other might be fine for a bunch of experienced guys who know what they're letting themselves in for, but it's not fine for the 15 year old rental kid with his crappy mesh mask. not to mention it doesn't matter where the limit is, people are still gonna cheat, set it to 5j? folk will try to run 10 etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tackle Posted July 22, 2019 Moderators Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, ImTriggerHappy said: It amazes me how people seem to think a few fps will be a game changer. Lost of the number of times over the years I've seen posts where people have a healthy gun, but are prepared to rip it open, possibly screwing it up, for another 20fps, even doing it just because they're playing another site with slightly higher fps rules than their regular site. 6 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said: not to mention it doesn't matter where the limit is, people are still gonna cheat, set it to 5j? folk will try to run 10 etc etc. Amen, cheaters gunna cheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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