FPS limit?

[Musica]

3 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Mmm, I don't want to judge unseen, but it's so easy for players to say "Me no understand Joules-per-squared-airsoft-metres-per-second rules," if they do get caught. 

 

When I'm King of Airsoft, they'll be lined up against a wall and shot with their own not-technically-airsoft-guns in the voonerables.

Sites need to just make sure ignorance isn't a defence. Swift ejection for the day and repeat offences resulting in bans.

 

Just like not knowing murder is a crime doesn't mean you can go around killing. 

[SgtTalbert]

7 minutes ago, Musica said:

Sites need to just make sure ignorance isn't a defence. Swift ejection for the day and repeat offences resulting in bans.

 

Just like not knowing murder is a crime doesn't mean you can go around killing. 

 

Apart from the fact you're assuming all airsoft players know how to open up a GB or even bother changing the spring.

As a marshal, there are A LOT more players with money than there are airsofters with technical abilities. I had one airsofter a few weeks ago, didn't know how to take the slide off his Glock.

 

So I get you're new and all....but assuming everyone with a 'hot' rifle/pistol knows they have one is nearly as bad as assuming every time you pull the trigger you have hit someone. 

If you buy a rifle from a shop and you don't have a chrono at home (I don't) then the first time you chrono it will be at a site. Also remember, there are sites with shit chronos and sites with good chronos - both will report different stats. 

[Musica]

1 hour ago, SgtTalbert said:

 

Apart from the fact you're assuming all airsoft players know how to open up a GB or even bother changing the spring.

As a marshal, there are A LOT more players with money than there are airsofters with technical abilities. I had one airsofter a few weeks ago, didn't know how to take the slide off his Glock.

 

So I get you're new and all....but assuming everyone with a 'hot' rifle/pistol knows they have one is nearly as bad as assuming every time you pull the trigger you have hit someone. 

If you buy a rifle from a shop and you don't have a chrono at home (I don't) then the first time you chrono it will be at a site. Also remember, there are sites with shit chronos and sites with good chronos - both will report different stats. 

Woah slow down there. I get it could have been taken as anyone showing up with a hot gun needs a swift hand of justice but that wasn't my intent. 

 

Caught with a hot gun in a game vs at the mandatory chrono are 2 separate things. That's why the  morning chrono exists to prove all tested guns fired UNDER an acceptable level an as such if later on they are not in the same game day then someone with a quick change spring or high pressure gas has some explaining to do. 

If someone is shooting a unchronoed gun in game, Kick em even if it's not hot. If someone is shooting hot on a tested gun ban them. 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

"Mandatory" chrono still relies on goodwill.  It's easy enough to change gas, or quick change springs, some guns have a spring tensioner screw, or you can just wind the hop up to full.  I still get my MP5K chronoed and tagged every day, but all that's doing is holding up the line since it comes in at 315fps time after time and is never going to magically jump over 350.

 

I'd like to see pre-game chronoing encouraged, and advice made available to folk.  However, that only takes care of those who are wanting to play nicely, and they're not likely to be the problem.

 

What I would like to see a lot more of is in-game chronoing throughout the day, starting with the marshals and working down.  I've only been chronoed in-game twice that I recall (and one of those was when the marshal assumed my G36C was one of the site hire guns, and I was honest enough to say that it wasn't and asked to be checked), and I can't remember ever having the Safety Theatre tag checked.

[Druid799]

Simply ignore all the ‘the joule creep/ FPS to mtre’ crap chrono everyone on a site supplied .2 leave the hop set as it would be for what ever weight your normally running , if it passes the site limits with a reasonable margin for error or variation (went to a site that said 340+5fps any thing over needed a secondary look) you can use it , it don’t pass ? You don’t use it . 

Plus random chrono’ing during the day , your gun fails ? Your off site no if’s or but’s , your gone .

End off .

if retailers actually ensured the guns they sell were compliant with the sport wide ‘recommended FPS’ (why should I the customer have to spend more time and money making my new gun usable AND invalidating the warranty in the proses because the retailers can’t be arsed or are just so arrogant they don’t care?)  and if players didn’t fixate on the magical “if I get it exactly to 350fps I will hit everyone I aim at !” We wouldn’t have most problems we have with ‘hot’ guns would we ? 

[Musica]

53 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

"Mandatory" chrono still relies on goodwill.  It's easy enough to change gas, or quick change springs, some guns have a spring tensioner screw, or you can just wind the hop up to full.  I still get my MP5K chronoed and tagged every day, but all that's doing is holding up the line since it comes in at 315fps time after time and is never going to magically jump over 350. 

 

I'd like to see pre-game chronoing encouraged, and advice made available to folk.  However, that only takes care of those who are wanting to play nicely, and they're not likely to be the problem.

 

What I would like to see a lot more of is in-game chronoing throughout the day, starting with the marshals and working down.  I've only been chronoed in-game twice that I recall (and one of those was when the marshal assumed my G36C was one of the site hire guns, and I was honest enough to say that it wasn't and asked to be checked), and I can't remember ever having the Safety Theatre tag checked.

 

What do you mean starting with the marshals and working down?

 

They have to check every gun because they need no shadow of a doubt when some arse has a hot gun in the game that they are altering something probably on purpose to either do people harm or get an "advantage" in CQB it's going to be hurting people.

[SgtTalbert]

We also walk about with a couple of chronos and randomly chrono players walking back to regen.

 

We also check chrono tags before each game to make sure no weapons have been switched

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Musica said:

What do you mean starting with the marshals and working down?

 

That the site owner should check the marshals' guns in game.

 

 

1 hour ago, Musica said:

They have to check every gun because they need no shadow of a doubt when some arse has a hot gun in the game that they are altering something probably on purpose

 

Or that they've skipped pre-game chrono, which is the problem with relying on it.  It doesn't really matter how a hot gun got in game if the policy is to punt folk out if they're caught.  But they need to actually do it, and do it a lot more.  I'd be happy to be checked far more often at respawn, or while waiting for folk to turn up at the briefing ramp.

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

15 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Or that they've skipped pre-game chrono, which is the problem with relying on it.  It doesn't really matter how a hot gun got in game if the policy is to punt folk out if they're caught.  But they need to actually do it, and do it a lot more.  I'd be happy to be checked far more often at respawn, or while waiting for folk to turn up at the briefing ramp.

 

indeed, i wouldn't mind being checked as long as i'm not getting pulled out of a firefight without a good reason.

 

an honest player shouldn't have a problem being spot checked, if someone's getting salty about it that'd ring warning bells.

[gasman]

I think a sensible and balanced approach is required if over site limit at morning test the gun may not be used, guns that pass are tagged in places you can not remove, not stocks I have run 2 identical guns.

Random tests during the day and any excessive change from morning test questions asked and tags checked, weapon banned for the rest of the day. Repeat offenders with over limit guns then banned from site.

Gas pistols are classic for extra power due to gas change after chrono I know I was shot with one last week pain but no lasting damage. Very hard to stop.

 I personally try and run as close to upper site limits as possible as it does with good hop adjustment give best range with heavier BBs.

Nubes just don't know enough or have test equipment so we should not put them off the sport on their early visits by giving them lots of grief, just gently educate and explain why their gun is not usable as is.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

It's not even just gas change after chrono - First and Only's "The Base CQC" site is run fairly well in that regard - the head marshal, Woody I think, during morning brief will essentially say "We'll chrono your gas now, but the day's only going to get hotter - if we chrono you in game and you're shooting hot, you're going home".

[gasman]

Their site their rules

[Rogerborg]

12 hours ago, gasman said:

guns that pass are tagged

 

What do do you when you find an untagged gun in game?

 

If the answer is anything other than "Send the player home without even chronoing them", then the pre-game chrono is just Safety Theatre.

 

 

12 hours ago, gasman said:

any excessive change from morning test questions asked and tags checked, weapon banned for the rest of the day.

 

Then there's no penalty or deterrent to chancing your luck with a hot gun.

 

 

12 hours ago, gasman said:

Nubes just don't know enough or have test equipment so we should not put them off the sport on their early visits by giving them lots of grief, just gently educate and explain why their gun is not usable as is. 

 

I fully agree with that, and up to the moment that games start, sites should be operating on a help + advice basis.

 

Once you're in game though, it's my eyesight on the line, and I want any hot gun and its owner off site, no questions, no excuses, no second chances.  If I get caught in game with an inadvertently hot gun, I wouldn't expect anything less.

[Musica]

13 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

That the site owner should check the marshals' guns in game.

 

 

I see. I do 100% agree with this. Those marshals rifles nip a bit more than others for sure. 

 

19 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

What do do you when you find an untagged gun in game?

 

If the answer is anything other than "Send the player home without even chronoing them", then the pre-game chrono is just Safety Theatre..

 

Yup if they skipped the mandatory chrono or safety brief kick em. 

21 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Then there's no penalty or deterrent to chancing your luck with a hot gun.

yea oh no I can't use my hot gun today what a punishment. Like if someone stabbed a guy sending his knife to jail........

 

 

The only point I'm not sure I agree on is the chrono at the game brief it will put people off showing up on time for the brief so they can avoid being tested and it's hard enough to get everyone out ready to play in the first place. 

[Wo1f]

Where do you all play that’s so stressful and so full of cheaters? You’re all making a mountain out of a mole hill. 

[Musica]

7 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

Where do you all play that’s so stressful and so full of cheaters? You’re all making a mountain out of a mole hill. 

I'm just discussing how to avoid or discourage people from doing it. If there is no punishment then there's no reason people will stay honest. If there's no checks then the punishment won't come in to play.

 

I'm not stressed about it. 

[Wo1f]

But what everyone is suggesting involves taking up half the day fucking around with BB weights and assuming everyone is out to shoot you with hypersonic BB’s.

[Immortal]

I think most people are just there to play a game. They're more likely to cheat in terms of hit calling than running hot guns. Most probably aren't aware of the term and what can cause it. A minority would be the ones deliberately tweaking to run hot.

 

Many people run X weight of BB and someone says try a heavier one for improving range and leaf cutting etc, in turn they do and find it better but don't realise that it may have taken their rif into the hot category. Then another person gets the same advice and gets the same improvement but as they have a different spec gun it remains in the pass category.

 

Then there's a minority who will chrono on green gas and switch to black, or have a quick change of spring or tweak a reg or knowingly load up with heavy ammo that boosts the joules on purpose... whatever it is that makes them run hot. These are the deliberate cheaters and thankfully IME a rarity.

 

Most people just want to play and play to play. Most people are honest, it's an honest game and the only way it works.

 

As with most laws, regs and rules; they are there to catch a minority but penalise the majority.

 

A site can only chrono, trust the honesty of the majority and try and catch the minority as and when they are spotted or reported.

 

And I bet loads of people who say that fella has a hot gun are just gutted they got hit and couldn't hit the fella back for whatver reason.

 

I'll leave it there.... lol I've completely lost what the hell I'm on about... a rerun of Columbo is on so I'll just watch that instead.

[clumpyedge]

On 18/03/2019 at 13:42, ImTriggerHappy said:

And when chrono takes 3 hrs and first game is lunch time then players will be really happy🙄.

 

The relatively small issue of joule creep is nothing compared to a queue of a hundred bored airsofters. Most guns the joule creep is a few fps. Never seen anything  jump too much except for people who deliberately cheat.

 

You really think players will enjoy getting pulled out of game to be chrono checked? 

 

We still chrono on the weight people are playing on and use a conversion chart to ensure that the FPS is within limits. Personally id rather either switch to jules or measure everyone on a site supplied .20 but it isnt my decision to make I can only suggest with arguments for an against.

 

I tried finding a simple list on all the weights vs a site limit and it doesn't seem to exist or there were variations between lists i did find so nothing concrete which was frustrating so we use a chart which by admission could well be out of date.

 

 

[Immortal]

 

 

I've always used a chart such as this when I chrono at home on different weights. It's been on par with results AFAIK.

 

[Guest Yukarin]

24 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

But what everyone is suggesting involves taking up half the day fucking around with BB weights and assuming everyone is out to shoot you with hypersonic BB’s.

Because it happened at my local site with a certain sniper celebrity and now they strictly enforce Joule limits. His gun was doing around 3-4 joules and it was seriously painful.

 

 

 

My concern is with my gas guns, my friend has his NPAS set around 200 just to make sure it will never creep up to high as the day gets warmer, but that puts him at a range disadvantage, as for me, i set mine around 300 and call it there, if my gun starts shooting hotter due to temp increases (not out of my own intention, not changing gas or npas setting) should i be automatically banned? I would prefer that i turn the npas down and hand the key over to the marshalls if they are concerned im gonna turn it back up.

[Steveocee]

It's an educational issue in my eyes. Greener players tend to chase every last FPS where the more experienced guys kind of know that it's not just about that and appreciate the other qualities such as hopup quality, BB quality and so on. Yes there are a few ill-educated guys who are site veterans and run a little close if not over the limit because they're besties with the site owner but that is definitely ignorance.

 

I certainly agree that hot guns need to be removed from play however the age old site .2 over chrono is a good but rough indicator, anything that raises the eyebrows too much the player is asked not to use the RIF and also a short chat about why they're running so high and if they really need it to get to what end?

[Wo1f]

15 minutes ago, UKCYukarin said:

Because it happened at my local site with a certain sniper celebrity and now they strictly enforce Joule limits. His gun was doing around 3-4 joules and it was seriously painful.

 

 

 

My concern is with my gas guns, my friend has his NPAS set around 200 just to make sure it will never creep up to high as the day gets warmer, but that puts him at a range disadvantage, as for me, i set mine around 300 and call it there, if my gun starts shooting hotter due to temp increases (not out of my own intention, not changing gas or npas setting) should i be automatically banned? I would prefer that i turn the npas down and hand the key over to the marshalls if they are concerned im gonna turn it back up.

See, there’s the difference. When an airsoft ‘celeb’ turns up at the sites I’ve played at, the Marshall’s have come up to me and told me to ruin their day 😂. They are watched like hawks. 

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Wo1f said:

But what everyone is suggesting involves taking up half the day fucking around with BB weights and assuming everyone is out to shoot you with hypersonic BB’s. 

 

The problem isn't "everyone", it's that one guy who's taking the piss because he's either genuinely ignorant, or thinks that he won't get caught, or that there won't be any consequences if he is.  We've been given examples of both in this thread, they're not hypothetical.

 

All I'm suggesting is a marshal with a chrono and a speedloader full of 0.2g / site limit BBs at the respawn point, or briefing point.  Chrono a few players while they're otherwise faffing around or chatting.  Do it visibly so that everyone can see that it's being done and that there's a real chance of being caught with a hot gun.

 

In the case of my local site, for example, there's always a queue to get back into the safe zone from the briefing point.  Pulling a few players aside for chronoing would just re-shuffle the queue, not increase the total time to clear the site, and everyone could see it being done.

 

What's actually a waste of everyone's time is talking a good game about fps / energy limits without actually checking in-game. The majority of good faith players don't need to be lectured about it, the minority of rogues aren't going to care, and rhetoric won't deter or catch them.

[Wo1f]

@Rogerborg I’d have no problem with that. It’s all of the fucking about with weights at the start of the day some people are suggesting. Chrono on a .20 and leave it at that. We have a Marshall with a chrono that is supposed to spot check people in game, but I’ve never really seen it happen. I think it’s more the threat of it.