40 Mike Gas Shell - 150 BB's in 0.3sec

[Adolf Hamster]

5 minutes ago, padraigthesniper said:

I think they should be allowed but restricted to outdoors and have a 25 metre engagement rule. Also if people are using them maliciously you could have a rule that at the start of the day anyone using them has to be shot a close range with one before they can use it. A little forced empathy might change their minds?

 

They would be good at range for suppression like when a team is rushing at the start of the game to get to the flag you could use one to slow them down if you spread it.

 

i'd say outdoor usage, and as with all things ban people who are using them improperly (ie point blanking people), it's not as if it's hard to identify folk when they use them.

[TheFull9]

As I mentioned before, with an MED then absolutely crack on, we already let people use bolties with very high muzzle energy and trust them to stick to a minimum engagement and I'm all for more personal freedom where it's safe; you have to trust people.  Indoors?  Get fucked.

 

Quote

any news on how the US market is receiving it?

 

Definitely mixed, it's a rather different market over there, they're used to higher FPS limits etc.  Larger market, which means more room for childish idiots.  When I go to an average CQB skirmish here I see maybe 1-2 HPA gun/Dye loadouts running around trying to 'speedsoft' and actually give a fuck about winning or K/D, but frankly it just doesn't seem to have taken off here.

 

What I see from the states is a fair few disturbing attitudes.  Anyone see the old RIP kid video?  bbrrrrrrttt 'he burned my patch' absolute cunt bag child?  That video got a horrendously shocking amount of positive feedback, comments about how great it was etc.  I find that fact alone scary as hell.  I've got no crazy illusion that a majority of airsofters in the US are like that and I'm sure people who've played there will confirm that most are just average folks who play decently, however there's a definite cult around causing pain, huge overkill, being hyper competitive and douchey, fight videos etc etc.  All fits in.

[Skara]

Lmao.

Who's the idiot who came up with that?

I'm quite sure it'll get banned from a lot of countries because:

-150bbs in the face aren't pleasant 

-150bbs in the face at close range are less pleasant

-I already see all the speedsofters ditching their HPA rigs to buy a m32 and 18 grenades (someone has to do that only for scientific purposes)

 

I hope they never get imported here in Italy or I'd be happy to have a trip to the jail..

 

 

Oh, and another video to confirm that Novritsch is a retard.

[Lozart]

Well, it appears that A2 Supplies are going to stock them despite being banned by The Mall. Seems an odd move to me but there you go.

[Skara]

Partners in business doesn't mean they can't sell stuff that's not allowed at the field

[Rogerborg]

Best case is that they sell loads, then they all get returned within 14 days when folk find that they've been banned everywhere.

 

Not because I can't see how they could be used in a sensible way, but just because cads shouldn't prosper.  That marketing... 🤢

[Lozart]

Luke used to be their resident gun tech when they were based up near High Wycombe way. Not sure if he still is (don't think so at least). As a result they have fairly close ties to the Mall which is why they can be accessed through the Mall game zone etc. Beyond that they have no real links. The Mall is still run by Zed Adventures/Zed Events which is all Lee Fields baby (also coincidentally the man that runs Bawzprops making some very nice Judge Dredd cosplay stuff).

[EvilMonkee]

MED won't solve this either - airsofters are notoriously poor at judging what 5m is for a grenade kill let alone 20m.

 

Designed to appeal to people who want HPA but can't afford it.  

[FreeFrag.UK]

I've been having a bit of back and forth with a YouTuber regarding the 40 Mike and said YouTuber has also carried out an interview with the owner (Carlton Chong). During the

interview (I'm yet to listen to it yet so this is based off what the YouTuber has relayed) Carlton made the claim that they never envisioned the 40 Mike for CQC usage but they

maintain that it is "safe" for CQC usage. This would seem to contradict their actions where they are now advising that the 40 Mike only be deployed at a minimum of 10 meters.

 

The YouTuber also volunteered to be shot by a 40 Mike at approximately 10 meters claiming that that was the "close up shot" and he states that being hit by it "sucked" but

states that he has come back from "CQB way worse off". This for me missed the point massively. First of all 10 meters is the recommended MED which has now been released

by Airsoft Innovations, secondly the 40 Mike is being deployed on YouTube frequently below this recommended distance and finally 10 meters is hardly the range people are talking

about when it comes to the 40 Mike and CQC.

 

Another defence for the company and it's advertising/marketing fell to the fact that it is only a very small company and it is made up entirely of engineers. This combined with the

local weather when the marketing video was shot were cited as two of the main contributing factors for the video displaying it's usage in CQC.

 

There are more elements used to try and justify the way this has been marketed but I'd argue that a significant amount of the justification relies upon people looking for a reasons to

believe that it has been marketed this way in error. I'd suggest that (based off what has been relayed) the company is hoping for consumer gullibility. You can claim that the video is

a result of when the video what shot but when their static marketing from the website uses these statements:

 

 

I feel as though these two highlighted statements say it all. The first one proclaims the severity of the hit and how many times you can strike the target in a single trigger pull. The

second statement is even more disgusting as it boasts about offering the "most joules per trigger pull" and how much energy is behind the impact which your target will suffer. Most

the community who are defending this item are focused entirely on the FPS because so many people fail to comprehend the difference between velocity and the actual force behind

the projectile.

 

Do I think that this could be a good product? Yes. I think that it has a place in outdoor engagements from 15 meters and beyond as an indirect fire weapon where it would probably perform

very well but as it stands we all know this item will get abused given the opportunity. I can't help but view this item as being incredibly irresponsible from the ground up.

 

The question is, will the company accept responsibility when this item does result in someone being injured? I doubt it. I have a feeling their response would be that of any other company

where they will absolve themselves by stating "we said that it isn't to be used below 10 meters".

[Duff]

We just need sites and their owners to be aware of this thing and have a ruling for it in gameplay. Either Yes, use it under set range, etc just like a DMR/sniper role or NO, fuck off with your silly toy we don't allow those.

[Lozart]

53 minutes ago, Duff said:

We just need sites and their owners to be aware of this thing and have a ruling for it in gameplay. Either Yes, use it under set range, etc just like a DMR/sniper role or NO, fuck off with your silly toy we don't allow those.

 

They've pretty much already come down in the latter camp. I don't see that there's any ambiguity coming from the sites.

[EvilMonkee]

Its not about distance at all but as numerous people have said all about overkill.  Someone fires that at me from 15-20m away they are getting a punch in the gob.

[Duff]

6 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

Its not about distance at all but as numerous people have said all about overkill.  Someone fires that at me from 15-20m away they are getting a punch in the gob.

 

And I'd laugh as you got escorted off site.

 

Seriously, the onus is on the skirmish sites to police these. I suppose you'd punch a guy in the gob for accidentally shooting you under the minimum engagement limit with a sniper? If you don't want to play against people who use this then walk off site before you start a silly fight. If I saw this and the Marshall said the player was allowed to use it I'd politely ask for my money back and go home.

 

Seems you're in the wrong sport sir. No one deserves physical assault in this hobby.

[Rogerborg]

13 minutes ago, Duff said:

No one deserves physical assault in this hobby.

 

It's pretty much the point of the sport.  The issue are: the levels of battery inflicted; informed consent to those levels; and the intent when they're exceeded.

[proffrink]

I don't feel like I'd have an issue with these if they have a minimum engagement distance, but there will always be some that will treat these like any other MOSCART so it's hard. Certainly no surprise to see them banned at urban sites.

 

The fact that it's a stream rather than one big load (heh) probably puts me in the 'just ban it' camp, however.

[Duff]

19 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

It's pretty much the point of the sport.  The issue are: the levels of battery inflicted; informed consent to those levels; and the intent when they're exceeded.

 

Asides from the plastic projectile assaults, thanks Captain Obvious. I was referring to his Alpha male "I'll smack a CUNT" bullshit bravado. 

[Adolf Hamster]

i see the witch hunt still hasn't ended for this thing.

 

i still don't think it's worse than existing tech for exploitation, i'll take some idiot abusing this thing over that same idiot with an hpa and a wrench to jack his fps right the way up and go round spraying people with 600fps at 50rps

 

for sure i support any site's right to ban it, and for sure i agree that cqb sites should definately not allow this thing, but i think for outdoors it's fine and they should ban the idiot players who misuse them rather than the product itself.

 

hell i'm tempted to get one at this point just to prove how it's not that bad if employed properly with a little common sense (ie using that "most joules" to get a long range shot rather than one that hurts)

[EvilMonkee]

1 hour ago, Duff said:

 

And I'd laugh as you got escorted off site.

 

Seriously, the onus is on the skirmish sites to police these. I suppose you'd punch a guy in the gob for accidentally shooting you under the minimum engagement limit with a sniper? If you don't want to play against people who use this then walk off site before you start a silly fight. If I saw this and the Marshall said the player was allowed to use it I'd politely ask for my money back and go home.

 

Seems you're in the wrong sport sir. No one deserves physical assault in this hobby.

 

And you are just being disagreeable, I wasn't being serious, you just seem to want to pick whatever I say to pieces for whatever reason you have.

 

Its far far from being an 'Alpha' male, as anyone who actually knows me will attest.  It has everything (as Rogerborg has already stated) to do with implied levels of consent within contact sports.  There is an implied level of consent in participation in any contact sport for that contact to be reasonable and in keeping with the rules of the game.  Anything beyond these parameters should rightly be considered assault, and indeed there is case law where this is discussed at length.  Ergo, if someone fires this thing at you it could be construed as assault, in which case I reserve my right to defend myself, perhaps by punching them in the gob.

[proffrink]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

i see the witch hunt still hasn't ended for this thing.

 

i still don't think it's worse than existing tech for exploitation, i'll take some idiot abusing this thing over that same idiot with an hpa and a wrench to jack his fps right the way up and go round spraying people with 600fps at 50rps

 

for sure i support any site's right to ban it, and for sure i agree that cqb sites should definately not allow this thing, but i think for outdoors it's fine and they should ban the idiot players who misuse them rather than the product itself.

 

hell i'm tempted to get one at this point just to prove how it's not that bad if employed properly with a little common sense (ie using that "most joules" to get a long range shot rather than one that hurts)

I was going to bring this up myself but thought it a silly place to shoehorn in the HPA argument.

 

I don't know about you but I (and indeed most) can cycle the trigger in less than a second (not a hard thing if you have a trigger with near zero resistance like solenoid HPA and AEGs have): If people using HPA want to they want they can fire bursts of 6-10 BBs at once. With this thing, however: One pulls the trigger and - according to the promotional material - fires 150 BBs in less than .33 of a second. If this is true then that's of course 450+ BB/s (a far cry from the 50 BB/s of some HPA). There's a consciousness of overshooting with certain HPA setups that you just don't get with this and that's why whilst both sets of people deserve scorn if they're hitting you with streams of 20+ BBs, this is just outright silly at closer ranges.

 

If you shoot this at someone who's under 10m away and hit them with even half the BBs then this is absolutely overshooting to most people. With an MED though I don't see a huge issue so long as you apply the same rule of the 'some idiot' who's cranked up their HPA.

[Duff]

10 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

 

And you are just being disagreeable, I wasn't being serious, you just seem to want to pick whatever I say to pieces for whatever reason you have.

 

Its far far from being an 'Alpha' male, as anyone who actually knows me will attest.  It has everything (as Rogerborg has already stated) to do with implied levels of consent within contact sports.  There is an implied level of consent in participation in any contact sport for that contact to be reasonable and in keeping with the rules of the game.  Anything beyond these parameters should rightly be considered assault, and indeed there is case law where this is discussed at length.  Ergo, if someone fires this thing at you it could be construed as assault, in which case I reserve my right to defend myself, perhaps by punching them in the gob.

 

If the site allows it and you're hit with it in play you've already consented to it's use against you as per any sites T&C' s.

 

Actualising physical assault because you're upset is pathetic and you deserve to have half the safezone descend on you.

 

I'm disagreeing with you because I disagree with your actions or intended actions in this scenario. Also because you seem to bite at the smallest thing.

 

Going back to the other thread, maybe if you exercised some grammar and literature skills you wouldn't come across as such an aggressive plebian. 

[EvilMonkee]

Also should have a comma after it.  Welcome to my ignore list, sole inhabitant....you.  Yet again, you miss the point I am making but by now that's become far too regular and boring to spell it out to you.

You may also want to get out more cos having 2k + posts since January is kind of sad......

[Duff]

5 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

Also should have a comma after it.  Welcome to my ignore list, sole inhabitant....you.

 

You!? Lecturing me in grammar?

 

Off to fuck with you dickhead.

[Wo1f]

Now now, children.. 

[ImTriggerHappy]

See it didn't take long for this to turn stupid.

 

If any site allows this then because of its controversial nature it should be queried in the brief if anyone objects. If they do then it shouldn't be used. 

 

Any player who gets hit by one whether within med or out who loses his shit and lashes out deserves what ever grief they take over it. Don't behave like children over airsoft.

 

Also I should just point out you two both have the mall down as a site you play at so as there is a possibility of you maybe meeting up please stop the insults. I would hate to think of the consequences of bad blood spilling into a game day.

 

 

[Duff]

9 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

Now now, children.. 

 

 

@ImTriggerHappy I have no intention of it, I respect the site way too much to ruin it just for the pleasure of lamping this twat.