Tommikka Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 My ‘what airsoft costs’ topic, and my Paintball slant has triggered a conversation on their comparisons ..... https://airsoft-forums.uk/topic/41216-what-does-airsoft-cost/?page=4 This has gone to a comparison of airsoft having better (realistic) guns, tending to be more military orientated and the energy of a Paintball compared to a B.B. - thus pain levels I’ll deal with the easy one first: Paintballs do hurt more than BBs, but I did let out a little help when I was first shot in the back of my next from a few feet away. But I’m not a good measure of pain. If I’m shot in the finger with anything then I’m a big baby, if I’m cold wet and miserable then everything hurts, but if my adrenaline is on then I can take pretty much any hit (as evidenced from a swollen forehead and probable concussion when getting caught sneaking into enemy hq in pitch black tunnels) Freezing Paintballs is a fallacy, either nothing happens because of the freezing temperature of the gelatine or they are degraded and tend to break down the barrel Quality of paintballs is more of a factor. Most people’s experience is with punter rental sites who use low grade paintballs with fairly tough shells. They have to sit around on site, probably in inadequate storage, can be sat around for a couple of months waiting to be shot or going through quickly depending on how many people really turn up and how they spend their money. These also have to survive rough handling by players, basic guns, go through bushes etc They are tough shelled and may not break on impact. If they don’t break then you get the full force on the larger 0.68” area, if they do break they still need a firm impact to break Higher grade paintballs become more fragile, right up to tournament grades which are well stored (Idealy temperature controlled) on site, are ideally timed correctly from manufacture to be ‘cured’ ready to be used in optimum condition They only need to survive being shot by a gentle low pressure gun, and break on the slightest impact A ball that breaks on impact becomes liquid and the force is spread across the entire contents as opposed to the impact area Under firearms legislation both Paintball and airsoft would have had to comply with the same air weapon muzzle velocity power thresholds, 6ft lbs for pistols and 12ft lbs for rifles, to comply as a low power air weapon. (12 ft lbs would equate to 330fps for an ‘average’ paintball) Paintball was subject to legal problems in the 80s particularly in Scotland as legislation allowed for air weapons but not co2. In England this was accepted, but in Scotland firearms raids took place treating co2 paintball guns as firearms. This was resolved under case law which established that co2 was acceptable and approx 300fps was defined as the maximum muzzle velocity. This also resolved specific definitions which could classify most paintball guns as a pistol due to non rifling (I cannot recall case details, it was late 80s to early 90s) Paintball is excluded in Home Office interpretation from some elements of firearms legislation due to paintball frangibility (additional testing was required and conducted for first strike. See below) BBs being lighter than paintballs permitted higher velocities for different types of airsoft gun, such as bolt action rifles and remaining within 12ft lbs etc However the Policing and crime bill introduced further definitions and controls, airlift is provided with an amendment which excludes airsoft from being a ‘lethal barrelled weapon’, however that amendment limits airsoft to 1.3 joules and 2.5 joules which reduces the maximum permitted energy This therefore means that 6ft lbs allowed 8 joules, 12 ft lbs = 16 joules, and 1.3joules<1 ft lb, 2.5joules and reduces the scope for air soft velocities Recreational play is typically set at 280fps or 250fps for indoors I don’t know the different performance between a Paintball and a B.B. with regard to how they lose their power and velocity in flight. There is a fairly recent Paintball projectile, which was subject to approved home office testing. This is the first strike shaped round which is effectively half a Paintball with fins. It is lighter, flies faster (for the same power) but also maintains its velocity and flat trajectory for a longer distance A Paintball gun set to fire standard round Paintballs at 300fps will shoot hot with first strikes. As they maintain their velocity then they hit harder Airsoft vs paintball guns Obviously RIFs look like real guns, and IFs tend to do the same other than two tone designs The interest is in the image Paintball guns began based on function, they were a method of launching a ball of paint to mark an object or animal (forestry and farming) This gave us pistols with a ‘magazine’ tube parralel with the barrel Then they developed with a trend to a real gun look, with a lot of M16/M4 styles adjusted slightly for practicality of air systems and hoppers They also developed in ergonomics discarding features required for real firearms. This gives the classic Paintball look with a cylinder coming out of the grip (used as a stock that rolls smoothly in the shoulder) and a hopper on top. Often they will be angled across the face to minimise player profile and remove the error of an off centre gun This does not mean there are not realistic guns in Paintball. Punters still want a ‘machine gun’ or ‘sniper’ and will pay the extra to have a lesser gun when site ‘upgrades’ are available Scenario Paintball and airsoft are very similar, but we also have MagFed and milsim (Milsim Paintball existed in the UK in a small community long before magfed came onto the market) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted May 30, 2018 Supporters Share Posted May 30, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Druid799 Posted May 30, 2018 Supporters Share Posted May 30, 2018 It’s the ultimate going no where fast discussion/argument/debate subject in both sports . the two camps will never be able to come to any accord over it ever . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted May 30, 2018 Supporters Share Posted May 30, 2018 big heavy and slow moving can still pack a hell of a wallop- it's the difference between a flintlock musket lobbing a .75 ball and an ar15 firing a small fast bullet. in terms of on-target destruction obviously the big heavy ball is going to wreck compared to the small light bullet. as i mentioned in the other thread paintball guns are putting out energy equivalent to the hottest airsoft snipers, difference is paintball guns will be used at much shorter ranges and the simple fact is energy is energy. now i'm not going to argue which sport is objectively "better" because they have different pluses and minuses- airsoft has cooler guns paintball is perhaps a bit more socially acceptable, airsoft hurts less but paintball is much better at preventing cheaters (after all you can't argue with the paint) etc etc. personally i prefer airsoft, because i like messing with cool guns and that's my draw. now, do we want to go full nerd on this which hurts more argument? because i can break out the FEA if we want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted May 30, 2018 Supporters Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Tommikka said: Both Paintball and airsoft have to comply with the same air weapon muzzle velocity power thresholds (over 300fps for a Paintball, but seperate case law applies and the UK maximum is considered to be 300fps due to case law) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Rogerborg said: Corrections made, because I forgot all about the reduced joules limits in Policing & Crime Act Thus the common maximum no longer applies I am unable to provide citation on the case law for establishing a velocity in paintball as opposed to just complying with airweapon limitations, but the ’frangibility’ exemption is recognised and referred to by the home office & UKPSF etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albiscuit Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Was taken to paintball a few months back for little bros birthday party, hated almost every minute of it. IMO Airsoft hurts more, certainly stings more and end up with way more welts and bruises after airsoft than I ever have done at paintball (played about half a dozen times in my life, so no expert y any means) I also felt the range and accuracy of the (yes rentals, but still!!!) paintball markers were crap compared to even the worst airsoft guns I have used. The paintballs would not fly straight and the range was piss poor compared to what I am used to with airsoft. Was a day and would have been cheaper for us all to play airsoft (and way more fun!!) This quote is spot on, however paint doesnt prevent cheaters, I had a couple of people who I shot blatantly tell a marshal those marks were from an earlier game!! On 5/30/2018 at 1:55 PM, Adolf Hamster said: now i'm not going to argue which sport is objectively "better" because they have different pluses and minuses- airsoft has cooler guns paintball is perhaps a bit more socially acceptable, airsoft hurts less but paintball is much better at preventing cheaters (after all you can't argue with the paint) etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwen Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I've just received an email (from Landwarrior) that has made me wince at the thought of going paint balling! Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Arwen said: I've just received an email (from Landwarrior) that has made me wince at the thought of going paint balling! Ouch! That can't be right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Nuts to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wo1f Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Airsoft paintball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Prisce Posted June 8, 2018 Supporters Share Posted June 8, 2018 Oh. I’m doing airsoft wrong.🤷🏻♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Prisce said: Oh. I’m doing airsoft wrong.🤷🏻♂️ Me too. Should probably give up. *throws RIFs into trash* Might as well actually turn up to the RA paintball I booked accidentally instead of airsoft, which they outright refuse to refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Duff said: That can't be right.... 2 hours ago, Arwen said: I've just received an email (from Landwarrior) that has made me wince at the thought of going paint balling! Ouch! 7.5 joules is valid in Paintball, it’s about 6 ft lbs which is UK legal for a low powered air weapon , and Paintball could go up to 12ft lbs or approx 300fps The frangibiliy of Paintball gives many of the firearms exemptions against ‘lethality’* Their reference to rubber balls (reballs) is a different matter, for many years heads have been buried in the sand and hiding under the radar with regard to reballs for ‘practice’ or some indoor reball venues. However in recent years some none standard paintballs have been looked at with shaped rounds such as one2one (which is like a sabot round with a .43” Paintball and a foam tail), which were dropped by the importer when they realised the potential implications and first strike (which is a semi sphere Paintball and plastic tail) where the importer put his money on the line and paid for approved testing. This test validated first strike shaped rounds as frangibile/non lethal This approval has resulted in both classic paintballs and first strikes being consider UK legal, but any other projectile consider not UK legal until tested It cost him £3000 for the testing and he attempted to get back half of that via crowdfunding but took just under £1000 Their website also lists pepperball for their 0.43”s which implies they are just putting up manufacturer info. Pepper balls are very illegal in the UK, though a valid authority such as the police could use pepperball (*noting that ‘lethality’ in the UK sense isn’t about killer projectiles but the level of impact/damage to skin etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Interdasting... cheers for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Duff said: Me too. Should probably give up. *throws RIFs into trash* Might as well actually turn up to the RA paintball I booked accidentally instead of airsoft, which they outright refuse to refund. You must do it, fate has brought you to Paintball On a serious note, do do it. No matter what the size of ball it’s shooting people legally, check out the pricing scale as failing to do so will hurt your pocket 100 balls at a time Play to the amount of money you are willing to spend You can either come out saying paintball is shit, Paintball is just another game, or maybe you’ll take up supair ball and I’ll be taking your photo at the next CPPS national tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wo1f Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, Duff said: Me too. Should probably give up. *throws RIFs into trash* Might as well actually turn up to the RA paintball I booked accidentally instead of airsoft, which they outright refuse to refund. Don’t worry, we love you Lycra wearing power rangers too 😘 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 17 minutes ago, Tommikka said: You must do it, fate has brought you to Paintball On a serious note, do do it. No matter what the size of ball it’s shooting people legally, check out the pricing scale as failing to do so will hurt your pocket 100 balls at a time Play to the amount of money you are willing to spend You can either come out saying paintball is shit, Paintball is just another game, or maybe you’ll take up supair ball and I’ll be taking your photo at the next CPPS national tournament Oh fuck fucking no. Out of principal that they're being dickheads there's even less chance I'd put myself through that shit again. 17 minutes ago, Wo1f said: Don’t worry, we love you Lycra wearing power rangers too 😘 Lycra is for pussies, I wear carbon fibre reinforced 1000 denier body armour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wo1f Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Carbon fibre makes me mOiSt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Moderator Jedi_Master Posted June 8, 2018 Head Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2018 Airsoft is so that paintball players can have heroes. And that is all I am going to say on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted June 8, 2018 Supporters Share Posted June 8, 2018 i think the funniest thing i find about paintball is when our local site was running paintball and airsoft on the same day, and in the safe zone at lunch they were chatting about "it's a marker not a gun" meanwhile all the airsofters are dandering around fully kitted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 I accidentally booked in for paintball instead of airsoft tomorrow at Red Alert. They've point blank refused to refund me or transfer it to an airsoft day. £40 down the u bend, deffo not going to bother with their airsoft either cos of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 9 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said: i think the funniest thing i find about paintball is when our local site was running paintball and airsoft on the same day, and in the safe zone at lunch they were chatting about "it's a marker not a gun" meanwhile all the airsofters are dandering around fully kitted out. ‘Marker’ as a term is one of my gripes The majority of people I experience using it don’t know why - it’s a politically correct term in America, due to their Victorian style mixed values It’s used to avoid saying ‘gun’, which in America is for the parents who will be scared off from letting their kids play Paintball because of ‘guns’ They also do it as advice to not tell airport staff or the police when stopped that “I’ve got a gun” but as “marker”. Ideally phrase it in a better way, and with the police save it until they want to search or ask what’s in your bag —- it’s your Paintball gear, Paintball gun etc. Tell them you have a “marker” and they probably have no idea what you are on about - then they look and see a gun When ‘marker’ is used as a piece of special language outside Paintball we give the impression of covering up a secret Ive had 14 year old kids tell me that I don’t know my Paintball history and Paintball has called them markers not guns from the outset Whereas the originals were “Paintball marking pistols” and “Paintball marking guns” ”Marking” comes from the permanent oil based paint in the original pellets used in forestry and farming, which were adopted by the game, and changed to non permanent gels. This change occurred before the Americans wanted to change the image and dissasociate from the southern gun nut image Unlike America which tends to be vocally pro or anti gun, here in the UK guns aren’t as illegal as some think, and our pro/anti guns aren’t as extreme as the US Paintball is embedded well in the British mindset as a game to play on a stag, hen, birthday and shoot your mates with guns before heading to the pub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted June 9, 2018 Supporters Share Posted June 9, 2018 On 5/30/2018 at 2:38 PM, Rogerborg said: interesting stuff, it does make sense to call it a marker rather than a gun for the sake of distinguishing it, i suppose the equivalent would be insisting on calling an airsoft gun an rif. Paintball is much better for recognition for sure, if im trying to explain airsoft to people i tend to say "its kinda like paintball only without the paint" which at least they can understand the basic concept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E21A Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 I thought they were called markers as that was their original purpose, marking livestock etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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