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This forum is deteriorating from the site I joined.

Sacarathe

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Sacarathe Grand Master

Sacarathe

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I've tried to help improve this site, I've failed, in my opinion this website upon which this resourceful community I joined, and introduced me (and so many others) to airsoft, is no longer fit for purpose. Over the last 2 months i've felt like going elsewhere for my social airsoft fix, but there isn't anywhere quite like this place was.

 

No complaints here, only suggestions.

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Sacarathe Grand Master

Sacarathe

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Unrelated to the recent influx from social media, for a long time this forum has been in quite some needs of some new sub-forums such as HPA, what gun should I get, safety gear, dedicated Q&A etc and an expansion to the overworked moderation team to hold back the tide of posts put in general discussion like this was /r/airsoft, enforce the rules on advertising and commercial sales, correct thread titles to actually be useful, move threads, regulate the sales forum rules, and stop the useless exploitative posts by commercial youtubers.

 

And the rules on sales and commercial activity need updating while saying within the spirit of the original rules laid down by Devastator.

 

A week ago I posted a forum restructuring proposal and some small changes to the forum rules in the supporters’ forum for the consideration of the moderation team. I had been trying to contact the root admin (devastator) to no avail since 15/06/15 about with improvements to this site. This week I decided I’d had enough and took steps to ensure the root admin communicated with the moderators - who stated he had been out of touch a long time.

 

As it stands now this forum is unrecognisable from the clean resource which taught me so much. But when I finally got in touch with Devastator I received what felt like the equivalent of being laughed out of the room. I still think this site can be saved, but I’m not going to be the one to do it.

 

I hope this post inspires others to ask for more.

 

I attempted to have these changes implemented behind closed doors – privy to only the admin, supporters and moderators to avoid being dragged down into weeks of indecisive debate. Having seen this two days ago, I’ve been told by the Root admin that it’s not going to be done.

 

Recently there has been much conduct on the part of us regulars which has been unwelcoming, but we’re not entirely to blame, the systems in place on this board are dated and not designed to cope and the volunteer moderators overworked.

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Sacarathe Grand Master

Sacarathe

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Here is a diagram of the site as it is now followed by the original proposal and a revised [minimised] proposal.

 

Current:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Original Proposal:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Revised Proposal:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Proposed rules updates:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

*Tiny transparency note: as part of my proposals I did also volunteer to implement them.

 

 

EDIT:

Think it's fair to assume you agree with 95% if you've now liked this post. :ph34r:

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Hef Legend Veteran

Hef Legend

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I'd happily mod too fella, I'm active on here and can access to the site most hours of the day if needed.

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ImTriggerHappy Grand Master

ImTriggerHappy

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Its not the site thats broken its people.

You take a game that is based on honour and you should get honourable people.

 

Unfortunately its then played with toy guns so you get all the people who want to believe they are a some uber warrior not just an insurance salesman.

 

Then you get the scuzzy lot who turn up act like chavs and then try and sell their guns for way more than its worth because its ok to rip people off because its their fault for being stupid.

 

Then you get a huge quantity of people who are just plain weird.

 

You are lucky if you get 20% of players at a game nowadays that are normal balanced people who just want to turn up and have a fun and fair day.

 

If you have a forum dedicated to a game that has become the home of some very off people then eventually its going to have issues.

 

No sub forums or anything else is going to make it better. The only thing that would help is mods who rule with an ironfist but this isn't nazi Germany and therefore freedom of speech and the written word is everyones right.

 

Instead of hassling the admin enjoy a site that allows you to have your say and and not be controlling and is free.

If you dont like things you have three options.

 

(1) Ignore it

 

(2) Join Zero in (The Gestapo aisoft site)

 

(3) Quit airsoft as its only getting worse. (My choice)

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Sitting Duck Grand Master

Sitting Duck

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I don't wanna mod no thanks

I'm too immature and laid back or down to earth approach on toy guns

 

Sales should be moderated/monitored and feel 25 min posts is quite low - think 100 myself but that is just my opinion

Also just a thought but apart from getting something in writing even a 2-tone gun to somebody

well that somebody name/addy should show up on electoral register if details punched into google

Obviously ukara check for RIF's etc....

But I am all for safe selling to potential buyers that meet the requirements according to rules/regulations we abide by

As well as trying to reduce risks of possible scammers

 

The sales bit both legal and risk reduction is something I'm quite serious about

 

The rest of it - the way I see my attitude to playing & all that, well soz if I may be a little less serious than others

(mainly coz I'm crap and try not to take most things too seriously)

But I love this place - we got all sorts from all ends of the airsoft peew peew toy gun or military simulation ends of the spectrum

THIS is OUR forum - we should go with the flow of what what most people would like too see as long as it remains valid and in line to rules/guidelines

 

but forget being a mod - I love the style overall

a few improvements but nothing that badly broken tbh

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Spatch Proficient

Spatch

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You raise some very valid points sacarathe, I've never been on any other forum where you can sell items of such value or that are looked at in such detail by the law without any form of forum input before selling, the mods do what they can but with no real ruling in place regarding this, it will never change, ive had threads removed myself and recently received a warning thingy for bumping early, not remembering which site I was on, my bad, hands up, but you then watch threads appear, no pictures, no name/date...'put pics or thread will be locked' infuriating

 

The amount of people who fail to read ANY of the forum rules is just staggering, no one reads the stickies, if the rules are broken, thread removed, not locked, not wrist slapped, removed without explanation, if people can't be bothered to read the rules, who's fault is it?

 

There has been a greater amount of eliteist attitude appearing recently, the level of help given has dropped, more because it's the same questions over and over and I'm sure those with the knowledge just get fed up of writing the same stuff, week in, week out

 

And yes, there has been a few extra members appear since the FB cull, adding to the amount of everything listed above

 

The forum need more mods, the mods need a looser leash, stop pussy footing around with the rules, enforce them!

 

As for the members, peeps, take a step back, think before you write, input if you know what you're talking about, if you don't or are guessing, keep quiet, this was a very friendly forum when I joined, it has as you say changed dramatically

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Sitting Duck Grand Master

Sitting Duck

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  On 11/03/2016 at 22:40, Samurai said:

I'm a member of an other forum where they have a minimum post requirement for sales posts. The number of spam posts is high since the introduction of that rule.

 

but mods should delete spam, correct post count and warn/ban spammer

 

it is a hard line to tread/patrol

 

been on other totally different forums where some mods and ego's gets carried away

got warned for arguing the toss with a mod trying to be smart - which made him looking more stupid

then he started again and I totally shut him up = a ban from the guy - ffs what a nob

(yeah I am am as well - I know)

guy knew his stuff but certainly didn't have a clue how to communicate with people - his word went - end of jeez

 

So I have seen loads of examples where it goes one way then the other - and it is very very hard to get it all perfect

best sites have been private sites where we all paid a small fee and we could all speak our minds but was mature enough to not hold grudges or take it to heart too much either - nigh on mod-less but one guy as admin we all knew from say 15yrs+ way way back on other public forums

 

before we run down this place too much and pick all the faults

there are loads of good points about this place too - like moi :)

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Rock-climby-Dave Proficient

Rock-climby-Dave

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tbf, sitting duck is pretty fabulous.

 

We do like that -for the most part- you lot tend to not argue, bicker or hold grudges. We enjoy that it's a hands-off attitude most of the time.

We are only a very small Mod. team for the number of members, but I like to think we are high quality. Dev does computer nonsense professionally, less active mods (but still whitelisted) do law nonsense professionally, I do airsoft nonsense professionally, also, Monty is here :rolleyes: (Love you Monty). In short, we know our shit.

None of us draw an income from this place, we do it out of the goodness of our own hearts.

As such, the less work we have to put in the better, really. But that's not to say we don't put effort in.

 

We have discussed the issue of post counts for sales thread users previously at length, but decided that the current way is best. After all, as Samurai said, it only encourages spamming and general quality of posts to decrease. We'd rather have quality posts everywhere that we can and have sales open to whoever chooses to use them.

If a user signs up and only uses the sales, then they're losing out on an excellent community, whilst our excellent community benefits from another potential new shiny toy for one of you.

 

Hopefully, you've all noticed a bit of an effort to keep on top the last few days, but we are a small team.

Rather than posting that a user should have pictures, please REPORT the thread, we can then deal with it much quicker and in an appropriate manner, besides not bumping a rule violator to the top of the page. Reporting allows us to keep an eye on the thread for pictures if required or kill it if not (and I have killed a few threads recently, but you won't tend to see the killed threads as much as the ones we give the benefit of the doubt to)

 

Most of you are aware of the Dev situation and we do ask that you bear with us whilst we try and sort a bunch of back-end stuff out, but he is currently the only Admin and he's a busy guy.

 

TL;DR:

We know the problems

Report more infringements rather than 'solve them' yourselves

Keep up quality posting

Forums are only as good as it's members, and I think we have a pretty cushy setup here.

 

Cheers

Dave

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Sitting Duck Grand Master

Sitting Duck

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  On 11/03/2016 at 23:53, Rock-climby-Dave said:

 

Forums are only as good as it's members, and I think we have a pretty cushy setup here.

 

 

The first bit was like ehhh ????

 

but the quoted last bit is absolutely bang on - nail on the head & all that

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Guest PT247

Guest PT247

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Unfortunately this happens to all forums not just this one and not just airsoft.... have seen it on car forums and motorbike forums, is the same thing just with a different thread title. What folk have to do is ask for change, if nothing gets done then leave the forum. Leaving don't mean you hate all the folk on it, it just means you are not interested in the direction it takes.... People who linger longer than they have toleration for all the re-run posts are actually the ones who topple forums, it isn't the newbies as 99% of the time they are oblivious that the questions they repeatedly asked have been asked a million times previously.

 

Am not telling you to man up or move on, am just sayin if you don't like it and no one listens that has the power to make the changes you think will improve things then you need to make a choice is all. As it goes, I fully agree on your concept layout, what we currently have is just IMO not very new user friendly. But this site is free to use, if it annoyed me enough I would find another place to haunt.

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Sacarathe Grand Master

Sacarathe

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  On 12/03/2016 at 00:08, PT247 said:

Am not telling you to man up or move on, am just sayin if you don't like it and no one listens that has the power to make the changes you think will improve things then you need to make a choice is all. As it goes, I fully agree on your concept layout, what we currently have is just IMO not very new user friendly. But this site is free to use, if it annoyed me enough I would find another place to haunt.

 

Whom is you? If this is directed at someone specific please elaborate on what "man up" means.

 

EDIT (Few re-reads later): I'm not annoyed, would annoyed people try to help? I think not. This the only UK airsoft forum with regular posters, low proportion of non UK based posters, and unbiased moderators/policies.

 

Thus, there is not anywhere else to go, best try to fix the concerns before they radiate into the minds of other users, the siege of general discussion, as you note on the layout, is down to a lack of imagination in users (over the last 5 months, strangely) on where posts might be most appropriate - and an obvious lack of browsing to see where similar topics are stashed. But with more sub-forums, there would not be a need to "imagine".

 

And in all fairness PT247 if you knew how hard it was to get the admin's attention, I don't think anyone would doubt the "man up" factor on my part.

 

Behind the scenes it's not an issue of no-one listens, its much more complex than that, put simply though, no one but the admin has the authority to change things, and he's been out of contact for a long long time, when I finally got his attention, he appears to have misunderstood (what I wanted, and why I wanted it) leaving us with no changes.

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Sacarathe Grand Master

Sacarathe

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  On 11/03/2016 at 22:40, Samurai said:

I'm a member of an other forum where they have a minimum post requirement for sales posts. The number of spam posts is high since the introduction of that rule.

 

I joined arnies way back when I joined this forum, and while did not post sales here for a long time nor ever buy anything, I did give up trying to access arnies sales after 20 posts, everything I wrote was spamming and just for that purpose, in the end I left that forum altogether.

 

  On 11/03/2016 at 23:53, Rock-climby-Dave said:
We have discussed the issue of post counts for sales thread users previously at length, but decided that the current way is best. After all, as Samurai said, it only encourages spamming and general quality of posts to decrease. We'd rather have quality posts everywhere that we can and have sales open to whoever chooses to use them.

If a user signs up and only uses the sales, then they're losing out on an excellent community, whilst our excellent community benefits from another potential new shiny toy for one of you.

 

Hopefully, you've all noticed a bit of an effort to keep on top the last few days, but we are a small team.

 

I put minimum post counts in the proposal at the suggestion of another user, they were never in my original concepts for change, and I agree with your decision.

 

EDIT: Don't know why this is the only issue I am defensive of. The fact is it was from previous feedback. Spose it's just an ironic coincidence that of all my proposals one I incorporated from others' suggestions is the one picked on and opposed most.

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Guest PT247

Guest PT247

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  On 14/03/2016 at 10:15, Sacarathe said:

 

Whom is you? If this is directed at someone specific please elaborate on what "man up" means.

 

 

And in all fairness PT247 if you knew how hard it was to get the admin's attention, I don't think anyone would doubt the "man up" factor on my part.

 

Aye I was referring to you the OP and if you read my wording it clearly stated "I AM NOT TELLING YOU to man up or move on" and from your second line I have quoted it seems you fully understood the phrase had I been telling you to do so. The trouble with the written word is that it can be misunderstood, mainly through the fault of the person writing by possibly not emphasising certain things well enough or by using incorrect grammar but also by the reader who interprets the words incorrectly by possibly miss reading them or misinterpreting them. I would like to assure you I personally do not want you to move on even if there was a place to go. My post was based on my personal experience of forums where the owners have their own agenda or are just too busy to modernise/change things. This means that the niggles that frustrate folk get bigger and bigger as they are unchecked and the regulars who often try to help all who ask for it lose faith in the forum..... I have moved on from all the biking forums I was a part of and was even a mod/admin on one purely because I got sick of the "what tyres should I fit" ("what BB gun should I buy for £150") threads etc, I have stayed friends with a few folk from those forums now via facebook as they are important to me and do miss the banter on those sites but I'll not go back to them because I felt I was not contributing anything positive to them as linking google to every "what shoulds I...." threads was not very helpful for the growth of the forum.

 

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Sacarathe Grand Master

Sacarathe

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  On 14/03/2016 at 18:33, PT247 said:

Aye I was referring to you the OP and if you read my wording it clearly stated "I AM NOT TELLING YOU to man up or move on" and from your second line I have quoted it seems you fully understood the phrase had I been telling you to do so.

 

The trouble with the written word is that it can be misunderstood, mainly through the fault of the person writing by possibly not emphasising certain things well enough or by using incorrect grammar but also by the reader who interprets the words incorrectly by possibly miss reading them or misinterpreting them. I would like to assure you I personally do not want you to move on even if there was a place to go.

 

My post was based on my personal experience of forums where the owners have their own agenda or are just too busy to modernise/change things. This means that the niggles that frustrate folk get bigger and bigger as they are unchecked and the regulars who often try to help all who ask for it lose faith in the forum..... I have moved on from all the biking forums I was a part of and was even a mod/admin on one purely because I got sick of the "what tyres should I fit" ("what BB gun should I buy for £150") threads etc, I have stayed friends with a few folk from those forums now via facebook as they are important to me and do miss the banter on those sites but I'll not go back to them because I felt I was not contributing anything positive to them as linking google to every "what shoulds I...." threads was not very helpful for the growth of the forum.

 

 

Haha, no I meant that I was asking what it is that "manning up" would look like in this context (as a question). :P I felt i'd already manned up plenty already. Posting this in an open thread is a fairly big deal to me, as it could have been extremely poorly received. And in that regard was prepared to leave.

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