Using Arma 3 for Milsim Training

[Baz JJ]

Filmsim Ltd who provide a number of milsim themed games are using Arma3 as an online training resource for their Okto Eight games.

 

A lot of airsoft players make the transition from skirmish to milsim without much knowledge of how to move in a fireteam or radio procedures.

 

This kind of knowledge can enrich players immersion and experience and while its no substitute for the game itself, a lot of things can be practised online.

 

The real military are starting to use more expensive and advanced simulators for training so it is logical that a diluted version might flow down to milsim.

 

This online resource is free to Okto community members and Arma3 is considered to be one of the most realistic and affordable sims available to the general public.

[Aengus]

But it's a bitch to run well

[AirsoftTed]

Arma 2 might be a better choice. Most people I know have it, and its quite cheap now if you don't. Almost everyone should be able to play it with a decent FPS, plus the uniforms and weapons are closer to our timeframe and a bit more realistic than the futuristic stuff in arma 3?

 

Just my two cents

[GiantKiwi]

But it's a bitch to run well

 

Really? Hadn't noticed. *Has Intel Core i7 5960x, 64GB RAM, 2z GTX Titan X though, so not hugely surprising*

[TheGrover]

Someone has more money than sense

 

I can get 60fps most of the time, but it takes an 800 quid pc and a good server in most cases

 

I guess it can be used quite well, depending on the quality of the "instructors" I guess, especially with a few mods

[ImTriggerHappy]

Dont mean to be judgemental but reading this thread you can really see why so many airsofters are single.

Cant really see me telling the wife I was going to play on the computer so I could practice my manoeuvres for the weekend; when I go and play dress up toy soldier.

Think I would get one of those looks that hint at divorce.

She thinks me playing airsoft is sad now, maybe I should show her this to point out how bad it could be.☺

[Baz JJ]

its no different to playing Arma and games like it for hours and hours on end with complete strangers in multiplayer when you can play with people you actually know and will be playing the same kind of thing with on an airsoft field some time soon.

 

Its also optional. Not everybody wants it, has the PC to run the game or the time. Its just something that people can do if they want. We tried to organise physical training days with military instructors, but with players living all across the country it was difficult.

 

Last game we had three players join the milsim who only knew each other from Arma games and came from three different countries just to play airsoft milsim.

 

Sad? yeah probably but so is knocking a little ball around a field with a long stick until you get it down a hole and so is buying lots and lots of shoes so you can store them in a wardrobe and never wear them all.

[GiantKiwi]

Someone has more money than sense

 

I can get 60fps most of the time, but it takes an 800 quid pc and a good server in most cases

 

I guess it can be used quite well, depending on the quality of the "instructors" I guess, especially with a few mods

 

Needed the CPU and RAM for work back when I was working remote contracts, 1 titan x was won in a competition, the other bought on black friday for less than a GTX970, also the fact I'm running at 5120x2880 does start to necessitate the extra oomph

[Hibernator]

You're simulating a simulation! My brain hurts

[ImTriggerHappy]

Sad? yeah probably but so is knocking a little ball around a field with a long stick until you get it down a hole and so is buying lots and lots of shoes so you can store them in a wardrobe and never wear them all.

Each to their own I suppose.

Will say though I used to play golf and while I enjoy airsoft more golf takes a hell of a lot of skill.

[Randymanpipe]

I trained as a PGA golf professional when I left school. Played to a decent standard and I can happily say snooker is far harder than golf!

[ImTriggerHappy]

I trained as a PGA golf professional when I left school. Played to a decent standard and I can happily say snooker is far harder than golf!

Maybe you should try playing snooker with a putter you could use a chipping wedge for when your snookered. Would do wonders for your short game.

[Jedi_Master]

Golf is a game of skill, I always struggle with getting the ball past the windmill and over the bridge. I did use the WII console for training to help my long game.

[Baz JJ]

An example of some of the self help videos on You Tube which are designed for Arma3 players but which are valid for adaptation by milsim players.

 

I have Arma2 from before but some of the continued improvements which are going into 3 make it a very impressive practice tool.

 

We did a Beta test on the Okto Eight server and Teamspeak channel which gives us internet based "radio comms" berween our players in the scenario and the first thing that became apparent (by our losses) was that we were crossing roads without covering each other - there is a standard infantry routine for this in real world armies. This is one example of where this kind of training tool can benefit real people in a milsim game. Our experiences show there are a lot more.

 

Also, it doesnt help when you try and sabotage parked aircraft on a sneaky night time attack on an airfield only to find you have loaded 40mm smoke grenade rounds instead of high explosive. Obviously a rookie Arma error. In milsim games, we use TAG rounds to simulate the real thing.

 

We only have a milsim every 3-4 months and many of us dont have the time, what with other commitments, to play every weekend. We have a strong community and the server gives the various forces a chance to meet up online to try a manoeuvre or two. Because its online, you can play at any mutually agreeable time and its not weather or light dependent. In fact, we can manufacture our own on the two large islands that make up the Arma training area. So, in some respects its a boon to busy milsim players with family commitments.

Most of us are with partners and many have families which put demands on our time.

 

 

[Sacarathe]

Ah, too bad my pc is from 2008, I enjoyed coop ARMA2. Had to turn down GTAV, FO4 and JC3 already this year.

[TheGrover]

I trained as a PGA golf professional when I left school. Played to a decent standard and I can happily say snooker is far harder than golf!

I knew a Semin-profrsaional snooker player at university who could kick out arses without giving us more than one or two shots in the game. He would disagree

[Gaspod4933]

The British army currently uses a modded version of Alma 2 for small unit vehicle training.

[Aengus]

Mp is kind of broken for modded servers on arma 3 (Google status_access_violation)

[Zak Da Mack]

Mp is kind of broken for modded servers on arma 3 (Google status_access_violation)

 

MP is just broken full stop. Netcoding problems can be really noticeable at times. I run a heavily modded server though from my computer and it runs without a single problem.

[ImTriggerHappy]

The British army currently uses a modded version of Alma 2 for small unit vehicle training.

I hope it works for them and believe that any training tool that can help soldiers in a combat situation is a great idea.

But still think practicing your manoeuvres for a weekend playing toy soldiers is sad.

 

Milsim is a great idea in that its more objective based and you do play as more of a team. I love the idea of playing a more structured game that requires a bit more thought but there is a point it starts to get a bit too living the fantasy.

I sometimes wonder if milsimers realise how off putting milsims can look to a lot of airsofters. At the point it becomes too serious I think some of the fun disappears and fun is what airsoft is all about.

Milsim is starting to take on a bit of a games workshop type of air in the fact that a lot of skirmish players like the idea but are a bit put off by the nerdish feel of it.

I honestly think milsim type games are what airsoft should aim to be and one day will hopefully become more popular than your average skirmish day. Its the logical evolution of the hobby.

But if it doesnt lose some of its pretentious geeky air then it will always be a niche pastime. Walk down your average high street and everybody knows what paintball is but when you mention airsoft its a different story.

 

Before anybody jumps down my throat I know not all milsim players are the worst sort of geeks. I also know that there are different levels of milsim.

Problem its human nature to focus on the worst aspects of everything and things like this thread to your average person look in the same league as grown men who collect toy figures.

If airsofters learnt to soften their inner nerd then we would attract more people which can only be good for all aspects of airsoft.

[proffrink]

It should be said that whilst the US and UK use some version of ArmA for training, it's a far cry from the retail one (in fact the companies - BIS and BI - are now completely separate and BIS is mostly owned by an American investment firm). It's one of the reasons Bohemia catch so much flak - they put an inordinate amount of effort into their military contracts whilst their consumer title sits still very broken and lacking depth in places. VBS is basically incomparable to ArmA in almost every way except its basic concept of being a military sim.

I think a lot of people - most notably a lot of the big modders from A2 - we're severely ticked off that the game was/isn't quite as good as it should be doing how many copies they sold in 2012 and 2013. To the point where the RKSL and ACE teams kind of split in places and the modding scene hasn't been the same since.

 

tl;dr Don't confuse Bohemia Interactive Studios (BI) (ArmA, Operation Flashpoint and poor community management) with Bohemia Interactive Simulations (BISim) (VBS, JCOVE and big government contracts).

[jcheeseright]

I'm pretty into my super immersive milsim, probably a bit too much... Gen3 night vision, seriously considering buying a pickup truck to mount a .50cal or minigun onto, etc etc. even so far as my team fairly regularly booking CQB sites (and occasionally the odd MOD training area) for just us so we can go over room entry drills/building clearances/approaches to buildings etc.

 

But even from that rather sad and OTT hilltop it seems like using a computer game for 'training' is a bit too far. Especially since I don't think it'll really make a difference. Using Skype/teamspeak/whatever for comms isn't anything like using a radio, since everyone can transmit at the same time, crossing a road in a computer game means holding W for a little while and moving your mouse! On top of that, aiming and shooting cannot be replicated by using a computer. There's a reason the military sticks to expensive field exercises instead of sitting people down in front of computers 99% of the time. Yes vehicle sims are an exception, but the skills are directly transferable in those cases, much like aircraft simulators are used a LOT by military air crew.

 

It might just be me, but I honestly don't see how being a cohesive team in a computer game is going to translate all that well into being a cohesive team when stuck in a muddy wood for a weekend!

[ImTriggerHappy]

I'm pretty into my super immersive milsim, probably a bit too much... Gen3 night vision, seriously considering buying a pickup truck to mount a .50cal or minigun onto, etc etc. even so far as my team fairly regularly booking CQB sites (and occasionally the odd MOD training area) for just us so we can go over room entry drills/building clearances/approaches to buildings etc.

Night vision is great (lucky sod)

Pick up with minigun is awesome, do it.

Practicing entry drills and stuff is borderline but at least its in person and social in the real world so I could see the point if your really into it.

 

Practicing online, words dont cover and I have never come across an emoticon that conveys shaking your head in condescension.

[Esoterick]

The radio mods for Arma are pretty decent and it's good for learning to give concise, accurate descriptions of where the enemy is. Although you still come across long time Arma players that will still insist of saying "there's an enemy over there by the tree" when you are in a wooded area lol.

 

A lot of the military tactics that work in real life don't tend to really do a whole lot in game(Arma or Airsoft), although it's often hard to tell if clans do them for immersion or because they think it benefits their team's effectiveness. It all falls apart a bit in Arma when you hit all the issues like breaching a room and the enemy that is lying down for some reason spins around on the spot after being shot 5 times in the chest and kills you instantly or when you are drilling a group of enemies with an LMG and they still return fire that kills you.

 

I do actually really like Arma, but I wonder if playing similar to how ShackTac do would be more beneficial so you can focus more on communication and coordination. As opposed to drills that don't work particularly well in Arma and might not work at all in Airsoft. At the end of the day though, it's up to you guys so do what you want

[proffrink]

ShackTac are a poor example of milsim co-ordination. You want somewhere super walty like 16AA.net.