latest banning things that are already banned legislation

[hunter511]

Given that our beloved PM is apparently on a "ban all the things I don't like" jaunt is there anything in the re-re-rebanning of zombie knives that affects us given that the VCRA had airsoft as collateral damage?

Edited February 18 by hunter511

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Depend upon the attitude of all involved in any given situation.  

 

'That's my extra deadly melee knife officer.'

 

'That's quite clearly designed to intimidate people, Sir,' to kid in MTP and webbing complete with rubber stabber sitting in his Mum's Fiesta en-route to a game.  

 

Given that chefs have been prosecuted for kitchen knives, I expect the answer is 'possibly.'

[Rogerborg]

I'll go with "possibly" as well.  When "samurai swords" were banned as a knee-jerk reaction to one incident that effected the political classes, the definition of "A curved blade of 50 centimetres or over" caught up pretty much every historical and replica cavalry sabre, falchion and tulwar. Arguable it covers many machetes as well, so this is a re-re-re-banning of those.

 

When you look at the list of prohibited weapons that it's now a crime to own even in private, it's so broad that it essentially comes down to interpretation.

 

Baton: A straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheon. 

Blowpipe or blow gun: A hollow tube out of which hard pellets or darts are shot by the use of breath.

 

So: a solid stick, or a hollow stick.

 

The one that might already catch us is:

 

Stealth knife: A knife or spike made of a material that cannot be picked up by metal detectors and which is not made for use at home, for food or as a toy.

 

So be sure to buy a "toy" plastic knife, rather than a "training knife."

[Dan Robinson]

Had to google Zombie knife... thankfully they're defined as having a hole in them otherwise my steak knives would be fecked.  Every other image of these things looked to me like they're already illegal with the exception of a few things that looked more like trendy axes.

 

 

[Sewdhull]

In fairness most of the things banned probably should be.

Not being able to possess them in your home is another matter and feels like overreach to me.

The incidents we know of in regard to such weapons is most likely the tip of the iceberg and it took a public incident to galvanise MPs to do something.

Ultimately the courts will decide if the law as written can be upheld.

There's no such thing as an imitation knife so a training knife, blunt etc isn't a knife if it can neither cut or stab.

A zombie knife is pretty big, needs serrations and more than one hole in the blade.

Clearly these knives have become popular altho I've never seen one.

In addition many of the prohibited weapons you can possess if you are engaged in a sport that uses them, much like our Airsoft guns.

[Sewdhull]

There was a stated case that a butter knife was a bladed article so it's entirely possible that anything might be bladed, blunt or not.

[Tackle]

As the old adage goes "guns (& knives😏) don't kill people", it's about time that the police/courts/government actually does what it says its going to do & properly punish the criminal element when caught with blades, all too often it's a slap on the wrist, & in some cases they successfully asked for their knives back, what kinda crock of shit is that ffs. 

Remember about 15 years ago a petition was presented to parliament, signed by A&E docs across the country, demanding that all knives, even those sold for use in home kitchens, be made with a squared off blade tip, in order to prevent thrust injuries. 

Upon consultation it's was laughed out, as anyone knows all self respecting gangster chavs will just grind a new point in school metalwork etc. 

[heroshark]

I was advertised this on my FB feed the other day 12" serrated, with a hole and a brightly coloured handle. Probably cheaper sharper and better quality than a "zombie knife"😂. Ban it.

Edited February 19 by heroshark

[Tackle]

BAN EVERYTHING🤬

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(they'll just have to make shivs instead😏) 

[Cannonfodder]

This is an election year so to me it looks like nothing more than a desperate attempt to appear to be tough on crime (whilst actually doing bugger all) to get votes.

[Rogerborg]

5 hours ago, Sewdhull said:

There's no such thing as an imitation knife so a training knife, blunt etc isn't a knife if it can neither cut or stab.

 

You'd think, but during the "samurai sword" ban, re-enactment societies tried to get the definition amended to require some element of sharpness.

 

Committee said "Narp."

 

Later on (much as with airsoft RIFs) a specific "purposes of" defence was added. But arguably, and pending case law, it remains equally as criminal to own a blunt replica of most prohibited weapon as a sharp one.

 

Sounds daft?  Maybe, but actor Darren Day was convicted for possessing a kubotan, defined as "the weapon sometimes known as a “hollow kubotan”, being a cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes;".  I've been unable turn up a picture of exactly what he had, but my impression from following his defence is that the object he was carrying didn't meet that description, and was simply a solid cylinder of blunt metal.  Didn't matter, because prosecution experts opined that "what Parliament meant to say was...".

 

Following the "samurai sword" ban through Parliament was remarkably informative as to how the process works.  Or rather, doesn't work.  So many sensible, reasonable submissions were made, and questions asked, that were simply ignored by politicians determined to tub-thump and be seen to be doing something.  It was an appallingly petulant performance, by children pretending to be adults. 

[Cannonfodder]

I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here but I have an idea about the whole blade being blunt thing. If a knife is used in a mugging for example, when threatened the vast majority of people will be thinking "oh shit this could go badly how do I get out of this situation" rather than examining the blade to see how sharp it is.

[Rogerborg]

If someone is setting out to commit the criminal act of robbing me or my family with threats of armed violence, I'd prefer that they did it with a rubber knife.

 

And if the law treats rubber and steel identically, what incentive do they have to obtain and carry the rubber one?

[concretesnail]

7 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

This is an election year so to me it looks like nothing more than a desperate attempt to appear to be tough on crime (whilst actually doing bugger all) to get votes.

Highly likely. The Westminster bubble crowd again, completely disconnected from the really world. Most trade folk persons carry offensive weapons, they generally call them the tools of the trade. I know i drive about with a van full of things that can mess the human body right up.

Edited February 19 by concretesnail

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, concretesnail said:

Highly likely. The Westminster bubble crowd again, completely disconnected from the really world. Most trade folk persons carry offensive weapons, they generally call them the tools of the trade. I know i drive about with a van full of things that can mess the human body right up.

To be pedantic - ‘most trade folk persons’ do not carry offensive weapons that they call tools of the trade …….  They carry tools of the trade with good reason, of which could be an offensive weapon if carried in public without good reason 

Certain items are automatically an offensive weapon - and there is no good reason for tradesmen etc to carry them

Other items have perfectly valid use and are not automatically an offensive weapon - but are an offensive weapon if carried with intent 

 

 

[Tommikka]

I will still need a proper read of the legislation changes, but two key points I’m aware of are a widening of the definition of zombie knives (which doesn’t worry me) and possession in private, at home etc (I do possess knives that I would not have good reason to be taking outside etc)

If I never have the police around then I won’t get caught, and if I do have the police around they would need to make a very throrough search to find them in storage boxes etc

I also won’t be in a situation where the police ought to be having ‘reasonable grounds to suspect the blade will be used in a serious crime’ ….. but you never are until the situation arises 

 

Ideally the ‘normal’ responsible members of this forum won’t be in such situations

[Cannonfodder]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

If someone is setting to commit the criminal act of robbing me or my family with threats of armed violence, I'd prefer that they did it with a rubber knife

I think most people would but I think you're missing the point. In the heat of the moment 99.9% of people wouldn't be looking at the blade trying to see if it's real or not

 

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

And if the law treats rubber and steel identically, what incentive do they have to obtain and carry the rubber one?

Easier to get hold of by under 18s is the only thing I can think of as they can't buy them. However as most of the knives confiscated from kids/teens have been nicked from the kitchen drawer it's going to be as effective as a chocolate fireguard 

[gavinkempsell]

Tools of my trade...

 

Always locked in a knife box at home or if being transported to my place of work.

 

 

[Dan Robinson]

But they bring the goodness of roast beef and bacon.   They should be worshiped. 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

15 hours ago, Dan Robinson said:

Had to google Zombie knife... thankfully they're defined as having a hole in them otherwise my steak knives would be fecked.  Every other image of these things looked to me like they're already illegal with the exception of a few things that looked more like trendy axes.

 

 

Have your steak knives got holes in the tang through which the scales are pinned?  Legally arguable perhaps.

 

This scares me: https://allingtonhughes.co.uk/offensive-weapons-in-your-home/

 

'Straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheon (sometimes known as a baton)' that means that a fisherman's priest could land one in choky.  Fucking hell, hide the rounders bat mother, you'll end up in goal!

[Sewdhull]

The government do them selves no favours without specificity.

Clearly a baseball or cricket bat isn't a baton and a defence would exist anyway, but Joe public with thier limited understanding will see issues.

[Rogerborg]

9 hours ago, Sewdhull said:

Clearly a baseball or cricket bat isn't a baton

 

I refer you to the Darren Day case above. It is what an "expert" asserts that it is.

[Tackle]

Just a point of note, there was a precedent case years ago (don't ask me when🤔), if your gonna have a bat of any type in the car, needs to be in the boot area & MUST have a suitable ball or two with it, without that it's easy for the popo to push the offensive weapon charge😏

[Jamsandwich]

14 hours ago, gavinkempsell said:

Tools of my trade...

 

Always locked in a knife box at home or if being transported to my place of work.

 

 

 

That white thing with the ribbed handle looks like it could cause some discomfort at the very least...

[Tackle]

1 hour ago, Jamsandwich said:

 

That white thing with the ribbed handle looks like it could cause some discomfort at the very least...

I think that's ended up in the wrong bag, should have been in the "weekend activities" bag😏