If money was no object!

[Dac76]

Hi all 

So I’m pretty new to airsoft, I jumped straight in with GBBR  (TM MP7 TM MWS) I’m finding gas to be quite unreliable, granted it’s probably down to user error but it would be nice to turn up to a game, grab ya gat and crack on with no issues!

 

so if money was no object what be the best most reliable platform?

 

Had a brief look at camoraids upgrades on TM NGRS rifles…. Whilst they are expensive I’d pay it if it was reliable!!!

 

Thanks in advance for any help and advice given.

 

cheers

 

Danny.

[RostokMcSpoons]

If money was no object, a lot of people would buy an MWS!   Maybe you've had a struggle because of the cold weather, but that's the gold-standard level for gas rifles you've got there with both the MWS and the MP7.  So I'd really encourage you to try again as the temperatures rise.

(Or sell me your guns)

If it's alternatives then HPA might give you a bit more consistency - all the MTW owners I've met will swear by (rather than at) their gnus, so must be something good about 'em.

Electric guns... ooft, quality and QA seems to vary so much between different guns even by the same manufacturer, could be a tricky job.   NGRS have a good rep (though I believe Luke at Neggy Airsoft refuses to work on them... so maybe not?), but the recoil part of the deal is underwhelming compared to a GBBR.     I don't have any real experience of high-end electric RIFs so I've not much to say beyond that.

Meanwhile as a counterpoint... I have so enjoyed my Double Eagle M906C precisely because it's been cheap and reliable.  My expectations aren't silly because it's relatively inexpensive, but it just keeps on delivering.   
Also, less expensive gnus means you can buy lots of 'em.   More guns = MOAR GUD

[Emergencychimps]

Great question but it will give you a range of answers. 

 

Typically people (airsofters included) will tell you to get what they have got, ultimately they have made their purchases based on the circumstances and what is most important to them. Be warned I am a TM fanboy. 

 

A TM MP7 is almost certainly one of the easiest and best gas guns to run, I wouldn't normally recommend it as a first purchase but as you have it they are considered great. You have just come out of the winter period and winter (cold) will always be the struggle time for any gas system, though the TM MP7 is probably one of the few guns that can handle it, I reckon in the coming months it will really shine. I'd recommend holding onto it for now, it's a fantastic RIF that will keep on trucking. 

 

TM NGRS are and can be extremely reliable, without upgrades they'll last ages and do a fine job. They are one of the few AEGs (battery powered) that have features such as the bolt stop (DAS GBLS do as well, as do a couple of others but I don't know them). They don't need upgrading and initially I'd recommend you don't upgrade or if you must, do a minimal amount. 

 

Often upgrades make very little real difference, cost a fortune and done by the wrong people can make a RIF worse. Camoraids are one of the few NGRS specialists and if they weren't so expensive someone I'd probably use (too tight, do it myself), I have heard of camo raid upgraded guns going down and the warranty service has been great. Think of it like a car, a standard car such as a ford focus will go for ages without breaking down, a specialist race car squeezing every ounce of performance will require more maintenance and is likely to break more often. An NGRS with a slightly upgraded spring, maybe a tighter bore barrel will beef up the fps a bit and not push the performance too much. FPS doesn't equal range, but I find it can be the difference in people feeling hits.....or not. 

 

You will be able to get similar performance, possibly even slightly better in some terms, from a standard AEG of a more modern design (Such as the Specnas or the VFC Avalon range) that come with a mosfet pre fitted for less money. However my feeling is that I have owned my TM NGRS's for around 10 years now and they are still some of the best performers on the field, they have had an upgrade here and a fix there, but they are the same base gun. From what I have seen some other AEGs lose their performance and then struggle to get it back so I think they are a great investment. 

 

Something else to think about is what do you like the look of? Performance isn't everything. The sport is to have fun and enjoy the experience and I can do that with an NGRS M4, some people love their weird and random RIFS. Could the saving be spent on other things that will bring you more fun (such as wine and women)? 

 

If I had to buy everything again from scratch, a TM NGRS would be one of the first things I bought and a TM MP7 or MWS wouldn't be far behind it. I wouldn't get a standard AEG at all. 

 

 

[Speedbird_666]

49 minutes ago, Dac76 said:

so if money was no object what be the best most reliable platform?

 

JG G36 on a 7.4v LiPo.

 

They will probably function until the heat death of the universe. 

 

Problem is - whilst they are great site rental guns,  they don't exactly sparkle with performance. 

 

And without knowing what your performance expectations are, you may as well ask 'how long's a piece of string?'

 

There is no such thing as 'the best most reliable platform' when 'best' is subjective to the expectations of the user, and 'reliability' is often compromised by said expectations.

 

Happy with a gun that trundles at 10rps out of the box forever, just 'works' despite being wrapped around a tree but is as dull as ditchwater to use? See my first sentence.

 

Want a 30RPS+ speedyboi monster with incredible semi response? Well - that's another kettle of fish altogether, expect things like higher preventative maintenance/servicing, increased wear an tear, and a more expensive bill to fix when it does shit itself.

 

I'm guessing that what you probably want is something in between those two extremes. 

 

Expensive =/= better. Just because there is a high ticket price from some manufacturers does guarantee performance and/or reliability. Looking at you VFC.

 

TM NGRS - the ultimate fanboi rifle. 'Perfect' out of the box apparently -  so perfect that people drop a grand to upgrade them to be able to keep up with those pesky kids and their £250 lightly upgraded budget blasters in terms of ROF, trigger response and power levels.  But it shakes a bit when shooting and has a functioning bolt stop so it's all good.

[Adolf Hamster]

Money spent on gats isnt really the barrier to having a decent times pewing imo.

 

Some of my most enjoyable days have been running gats that are definately not what would conventionally be considered premium. Indeed i'd argue that the more premium the gat, the more good performance from said gat becomes "well of course it should be good".

 

If it brings you joy running gucci gear then by all means go for it, but you can still have fun on the cheap.

 

If money were no object methinks i wouldn't be spending money on gats, but instead on the site, both in terms of renting/buying an interesting venue and putting the money into trained and motivated staff to try and minimise the impact of those who's enjoyment stems from spoiling the enjoyment of others.

[Impulse]

I mean... if money was no object I'd just get a gas gun and throw real-steel parts at it. I'd love to get a real-steel MDT or Magpul stock for my m700, but they go for £1800 and £1200(ish) respectively. I also plan on doing a tacticool CQB MWS build with real-steel parts.

 

However, to answer your actual question, my answer depends on if you know a reliable tech. I would get a basic AEG, a Cyma m14 or AK or mp5 or a Double Eagle m4 type rifle, then get a tech to work on it to put some better quality internals in it. I have a tarted up Cyma m14 and SR-25 as my backup AEGs and they just... work. Very little that puts stress on the parts, since I mostly use them at 1.1J on semi-auto and the full-auto isn't very brrrrrt when I do use it. The other option would be just getting a TM NGRS and leaving it alone; kept stock, an NGRS will last for a long time and perform pretty damn well. The problem with the NGRS is when people decide they need upgrading because they only come out at around 0.8J. They're great and don't really need anything done to them.

 

Take everything I say with a pinch of salt, however, as I way prefer gas guns. My go-to gun is a gas powered bolt action and my usual backup guns are both GBBRs. If I was in your position, I'd just keep the MWS and mp7 😂

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

2 hours ago, Dac76 said:

Hi all 

So I’m pretty new to airsoft, I jumped straight in with GBBR  (TM MP7 TM MWS) I’m finding gas to be quite unreliable, granted it’s probably down to user error but it would be nice to turn up to a game, grab ya gat and crack on with no issues!

 

so if money was no object what be the best most reliable platform?

 

Had a brief look at camoraids upgrades on TM NGRS rifles…. Whilst they are expensive I’d pay it if it was reliable!!!

 

Thanks in advance for any help and advice given.

 

cheers

 

Danny.

https://camoraids.com/product/camo-mp7a1-gbb-upgrade-service/

 

The service they provide here is great value imo, and it'll help with reliability for your MP7. They don't just fit the parts mentioned here, but they'll also polish the bolt carrier, fit a pad to the rear of it so it can handle the recoil better and so on. It made a big difference to my experience with TM MP7s - the bolt sticks less, which I found to be a big source of reliability issues.

[Dac76]

Really appreciate the time and effort that’s gone into those replies! 
Given me loads to think about.

 

The MP7 has been pretty good compared to the MWS to be honest.

 

Ive had a brief look at HPA, the line and tank are a bit off putting for me…..seems a bit restricted.

 

maybe I’ll try a TM Scar-H NGRS, I was looking at gas versions but was obviously put off being another gas gun.

I do think gas is the best…..when it’s working 🤦🏻‍♂️😂.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

You haven't covered the specific problems you were seeing, what were they? AEGs and GBBRs are both reliable and unreliable in different ways.

 

I find that with GBBRs, their issues can often be fixed or reduced "in the field" like you'd expect for a real gun, whereas AEG issues tend to mean that gun is out of play for the day. But then in contrast, AEGs have a much lower chance of those issues appearing, if that makes sense.

[Dac76]

13 minutes ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

https://camoraids.com/product/camo-mp7a1-gbb-upgrade-service/

 

The service they provide here is great value imo, and it'll help with reliability for your MP7. They don't just fit the parts mentioned here, but they'll also polish the bolt carrier, fit a pad to the rear of it so it can handle the recoil better and so on. It made a big difference to my experience with TM MP7s - the bolt sticks less, which I found to be a big source of reliability issues.

Definitely going to get this done!

Thanks for the heads up on this mate…. Very much appreciated.

2 minutes ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

You haven't covered the specific problems you were seeing, what were they? AEGs and GBBRs are both reliable and unreliable in different ways.

 

I find that with GBBRs, their issues can often be fixed or reduced "in the field" like you'd expect for a real gun, whereas AEG issues tend to mean that gun is out of play for the day. But then in contrast, AEGs have a much lower chance of those issues appearing, if that makes sense.

So the MP7 has been good other than a leaky mag and not working on a really cold day. However the MWS is just so inconsistent, I’ve tried every BB out there…..it’s all over the place. Also sometimes it doesn’t fire then it sounds/ feels weak like it’s lost power even with a fresh mag. 
 

[RostokMcSpoons]

1 hour ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

You haven't covered the specific problems you were seeing, what were they? AEGs and GBBRs are both reliable and unreliable in different ways.

 

 

Yes, agree with that... we need to know what problems you're having with the MP7 and MWS, it could be a lot easier on your bank balance to just get those running properly / at their peak

Is it accuracy?
Is it range?

Is it reliability?   Feeding issues?  BBs stuck in the barrel?  

Is it... something else?
 

If you're using gas with silicone lubricant then you're coating the hop rubber and thereby losing it's grip on BB in the chamber - will likely lose range and possibly accuracy too

If the hop rubber is damaged in any way - loss of accuracy and maybe distance
What sort of maintenance are you doing (if any) - has the barrel been cleaned out recently?

What weight and manufacturer of BBs are you using?

I could go on (and probably will ;))

 

Edit: seen your previous post now... are you mag-dumping, or using full auto a lot, or just sticking to semi-auto?   Cool-down is The Enemy of all GBB's, I'm sure you're well aware.  TM's are usually considered to be the best, certainly in terms of the MWS and MP7 you have. 

 

Edit2: You might find this video useful, as the DAS GBLS was something I'd have mentioned as a God-tier AEG (except I can never remember the letter-salad of its name)
 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Dac76]

2 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

 

Yes, agree with that... we need to know what problems you're having with the MP7 and MWS, it could be a lot easier on your bank balance to just get those running properly / at their peak

Is it accuracy?
Is it range?

Is it reliability?   Feeding issues?  BBs stuck in the barrel?  

Is it... something else?
 

If you're using gas with silicone lubricant then you're coating the hop rubber and thereby losing it's grip on BB in the chamber - will likely lose range and possibly accuracy too

If the hop rubber is damaged in any way - loss of accuracy and maybe distance
What sort of maintenance are you doing (if any) - has the barrel been cleaned out recently?

What weight and manufacturer of BBs are you using?

I could go on (and probably will ;))

 

Edit: seen your previous post now... are you mag-dumping, or using full auto a lot, or just sticking to semi-auto?   Cool-down is The Enemy of all GBB's, I'm sure you're well aware.  TM's are usually considered to be the best, certainly in terms of the MWS and MP7 you have. 

 

Edit2: You might find this video useful, as the DAS GBLS was something I'd have mentioned as a God-tier AEG (except I can never remember the letter-salad of its name)
 

 

Never really use full auto.

Im going to strip it down this weekend and see if I can find any fault with it.

[RostokMcSpoons]

My VFC HK416 won't fire if the magazine doesn't seat properly - if I fill the mag to capacity there's a lot of pressure on the top BB against the underside of the bolt which I suspect is the issue.
Beyond that I'm not experienced enough with the GBBs in general to guess what your problem might be

[Guest]

If money was no object, I’d get a HK G11 built that ran on an internal HPA tank

[Dac76]

34 minutes ago, rocketdogbert said:

If money was no object, I’d get a HK G11 built that ran on an internal HPA tank

Like the polestar system Co2 canister in the buffer tube?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dac76 said:

Like the polestar system Co2 canister in the buffer tube?

 
No, in the body

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, rocketdogbert said:

G11 built that ran on an internal HPA tank

Stop it, you'll give me a hard on, give it a realistic rof on 3 round burst and I'd be selling body parts for one. Also I'm genuinely surprised no company has made one as it's an iconic gun from many computer  games and the boxy body wouldn't be very difficult to make

 

OP, define "best" , is it in terms of performance, reliability or simply what gives you the biggest grin? For example in my collection performance would be the MP5K, reliability would be the AKS74U and for fun would be the gas shotgun (unless I've got a big bag of pyros)

 

Remember, what works for one person might not work for you 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Cannonfodder

[Dac76]

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

Stop it, you'll give me a hard on, give it a realistic rof on 3 round burst and I'd be selling body parts for one. Also I'm genuinely surprised no company has made one as it's an iconic gun from many computer  games and the boxy body wouldn't be very difficult to make

 

OP, define "best" , is it in terms of performance, reliability or simply what gives you the biggest grin? For example in my collection performance would be the MP5K, reliability would be the AKS74U and for fun would be the gas shotgun (unless I've got a big bag of pyros)

 

Remember, what works for one person might not work for you 

For me “best” would be something consistently reliable and consistently accurate. Also has to be aesthetically pleasing to the eye !

[Adolf Hamster]

2 hours ago, rocketdogbert said:

If money was no object, I’d get a HK G11 built that ran on an internal HPA tank

 

I imagine that might not be that massively hard if you can deal with the entire body being 3d printed.

 

Certainly the hpa gubbins wouldnt be too hard, imagine there's plenty of room for a 13ci tank in there.

 

Always did wonder why no manufacturer took a crack at the g11, it's not as if its any harder to make or has less demand than the likes of the f2000.

[OTH21]

If money was no object and anything is on the table:

 

GBBR RPD. 

 

Being a bit more realistic, cyma internals in an LCT AK. 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by OTH21

[Krisz]

9 hours ago, Dac76 said:

Hi all 

So I’m pretty new to airsoft, I jumped straight in with GBBR  (TM MP7 TM MWS) I’m finding gas to be quite unreliable, granted it’s probably down to user error but it would be nice to turn up to a game, grab ya gat and crack on with no issues!

 

so if money was no object what be the best most reliable platform?

 

Had a brief look at camoraids upgrades on TM NGRS rifles…. Whilst they are expensive I’d pay it if it was reliable!!!

 

Thanks in advance for any help and advice given.

 

cheers

 

Danny.

Vanilla gbbr has never been famous about ultimate performance but people buy it because of realism and require a different kind of approach/game style compared to your average hi-cap/mid cap enjoyers. Not to mention how fun to shoot them.

The more I play the more I think money can't buy either skill or cardio.

We cannot change thermodynamic laws so in the winter or when cold temps are present gas guns tend to struggle. Simple as that.

Everything is (can be) reliable as long you take care of it. 🙃
 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Krisz

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

G&G Combat Machine M4 is ultra reliable.   New inner barrel,  hop unit and rubber.  Add a mosfet and you've got about as reliable as you can get. 

 

CYMA M14 with similar mods is another option.  

 

You will get bugger all back if you choose to sell either through.   

[RostokMcSpoons]

Yup, TPH is on to something with the idea of upgrading something rather than going off-the-shelf - if you're not fussed about (for instance) the NGRS 'recoil' then you could just buy an AEG with nice enough externals, like a Krytac Trident CRB, and then send it off to Luke at Negative Airsoft to fettle for you... he'll basically do all the QA work that the manufacturers don't bother with - you'll end up with a 'sorted' gnu that didn't cost too much.  

There are some very nice AK's to be had, we've not really explored those - do they appeal at all?

 

[C-Diddy]

I have an NGRS and MWS as my main guns. Both of them worked great from new, but over time I've done a few bits and bobs.

 

The MWS is pretty stock internally, while the NGRS has probably had around £400 of internal work done. I only did this after a part eventually broke (stripped piston) and it now has a different inner barrel, gear set and is wired to Dean's. 

 

What I will say is, I carried on playing after the TM shit itself, using my £200, bone stock Cyma AK47, and it was amazing! No doubt (as TLH and Rostok say) you could pay half as much on upgrading a £200 gun, and get something that performs as well as, if not better than a TM.

 

 

[Jaylordofwaargh]

Hpa G3. I will not be taking questions on this post....

Or a "blue edition" cyma mp5. I have heard only good things