Misleading claims in adverts and timewasters

[1967PF44]

Recently I’ve noticed a lot of false and misleading claims in adverts on the Forum.  I am aware that second airsoft buying and selling is very much “caveat emptor”  and can be a steep

learning curve if you jump in without doing your research - but what do people think of deliberately misleading claims -   Like this costs £500, when it’s available for £325 

 

second point - Timewasters  - it’s seems that recently the sales pages have filled with deliberate Timewasters - making offers and the ghosting once the free is accepted (which removes the visibility of the advert), Asking for pp details after agreeing a price and never replying to messages - despite reading them

 

i buy and sell so much on various platforms I sometimes forget to get back to people as quick as I should, and I don’t mind someone changing img their mind right up to the point of payment - but tell me ? 
 

anyone else noticing an increase in this type Time wasting recently - is there a reporting system for persistent deliberate offenders ? 

[Adolf Hamster]

the misleading adverts thing i'd direct you to mack's:

 

which is a novel and often humorous way of approaching the problem.

 

in terms of timewasters, unfortunately that's just the nature of the beast sometimes. any time i'm selling i don't set an ad to completed until the paypal transaction has actually gone through. although granted i don't know what the deal is if you're using the built in system as i've never used it properly.

[Shamal]

My pet hate is when something is posted for sale and at the end of description the seller says 'does not include.....'

If something is not included then don't put if on the pistol,rifle or whatever it is. Take pictures of what you are actually selling.👍

 

Regards 

[BigStew]

1 hour ago, 1967PF44 said:

Recently I’ve noticed a lot of false and misleading claims in adverts on the Forum.  I am aware that second airsoft buying and selling is very much “caveat emptor”  and can be a steep

learning curve if you jump in without doing your research - but what do people think of deliberately misleading claims -   Like this costs £500, when it’s available for £325 

 

second point - Timewasters  - it’s seems that recently the sales pages have filled with deliberate Timewasters - making offers and the ghosting once the free is accepted (which removes the visibility of the advert), Asking for pp details after agreeing a price and never replying to messages - despite reading them

 

i buy and sell so much on various platforms I sometimes forget to get back to people as quick as I should, and I don’t mind someone changing img their mind right up to the point of payment - but tell me ? 
 

anyone else noticing an increase in this type Time wasting recently - is there a reporting system for persistent deliberate offenders ? 

Prices for airsoft can vary so much from one shop to another. So most of the time when they say what they paid for it i believe them. I do shake my head, say poor sod got ripped they should of done their research and they'll never get their asking price. 

[Asomodai]

1 hour ago, 1967PF44 said:

Recently I’ve noticed a lot of false and misleading claims in adverts on the Forum.  I am aware that second airsoft buying and selling is very much “caveat emptor”  and can be a steep

learning curve if you jump in without doing your research - but what do people think of deliberately misleading claims -   Like this costs £500, when it’s available for £325 

 

second point - Timewasters  - it’s seems that recently the sales pages have filled with deliberate Timewasters - making offers and the ghosting once the free is accepted (which removes the visibility of the advert), Asking for pp details after agreeing a price and never replying to messages - despite reading them

 

i buy and sell so much on various platforms I sometimes forget to get back to people as quick as I should, and I don’t mind someone changing img their mind right up to the point of payment - but tell me ? 
 

anyone else noticing an increase in this type Time wasting recently - is there a reporting system for persistent deliberate offenders ? 

 

 

The more you buy and sell, the more you notice. It's prevalent in any second hand selling of any kind unless there are contracts in place (Ebay.... And even then!). 

It is especially prevalent in non essential hobby classifieds (If I may be stereotypical here). Airsoft, Guitars, RC Cars, Gaming. Full of flakes and dreamers who either don't have the money, patience and/or people skills. 

 

It's one of the reasons that I have to take a big deep breath before I put anything up for sale and have to be in the mood to deal with the above. Also one of the reasons why I almost never buy second hand stuff myself, I find it difficult to trust peoples descriptions. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Asomodai

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, 1967PF44 said:

Recently I’ve noticed a lot of false and misleading claims in adverts on the Forum.  I am aware that second airsoft buying and selling is very much “caveat emptor”  and can be a steep

learning curve if you jump in without doing your research - but what do people think of deliberately misleading claims -   Like this costs £500, when it’s available for £325 

 

second point - Timewasters  - it’s seems that recently the sales pages have filled with deliberate Timewasters - making offers and the ghosting once the free is accepted (which removes the visibility of the advert), Asking for pp details after agreeing a price and never replying to messages - despite reading them

 

i buy and sell so much on various platforms I sometimes forget to get back to people as quick as I should, and I don’t mind someone changing img their mind right up to the point of payment - but tell me ? 
 

anyone else noticing an increase in this type Time wasting recently - is there a reporting system for persistent deliberate offenders ? 

 

I've definitely noticed an increase in nobheads lately (more so than usual, let's face it this happens every year). That said I don't know of any platform that doesn't include someone that thinks because they've "barely used it" then it's worth 90% of purchase price. It's usually because they need the money and want to try and recoup their costs without actually thinking about it. I don't think there's all that many that deliberately inflate the price to try and rip people off here though, they're usually just misinformed or have an over inflated idea of what things are actually worth once you break that factory cellophane!

[Asomodai]

10 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

over inflated idea of what things are actually worth once you break that factory cellophane!

 

This. Though admittedly it's hard to price some things up. Case in point my practically "unused" set of 6 G&P Mid cap G36 mags, never used in a skirmish, no scratches, dents or otherwise. Considered the best traditional G36 style mag out there. Cost £17 per mag from any shop that has them in stock right now... Issue?

 

I coupled them all together for storage, and of course like all G36 mags, the couplers break when separated. It immediately falls in value despite never been used in a skirmish. So have now priced them at essentially less then a tenner each. It's hard for me to go any lower then that, but I can see why someone would ask for higher because of how all the G36 couplers will fail in short order anyway... The fact it happened before being sold is just a harsh reality! 

 

I would like to think I price my stuff quite nicely though. And my stuff generally does sell.

 

But it gets harder when it comes to the even more niche stuff, you have to wait for the right buyer (specialist in odd things) to come along who knows it's a good deal. But to the average M4 multiglammer it means nothing. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Asomodai

[Lozart]

4 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

 

This. Though admittedly it's hard to price some things up. Case in point my practically "unused" set of 6 G&P Mid cap G36 mags, never used in a skirmish, no scratches, dents or otherwise. Considered the best traditional G36 style mag out there. Cost £17 per mag from any shop that has them in stock right now... Issue?

 

I coupled them all together for storage, and of course like all G36 mags, the couplers break when separated. It immediately falls in value despite never been used in a skirmish. So have now priced them at essentially less then a tenner each. It's hard for me to go any lower then that, but I can see why someone would ask for higher because of how all the G36 couplers will fail in short order anyway... That fact it happened before being sold is just a harsh reality! 

 

I would like to think I price my stuff quite nicely though. And my stuff generally does sell. It's harder when it comes to the even more niche stuff, you have to wait for the right buyer to come along who knows it's a good deal. But to the average M4 multiglam it means nothing. 

 

That's what I was saying though, you have the sense and experience to know that "unused but broken" is still broken. Some other twat would probably call them "custom".

[Asomodai]

3 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

That's what I was saying though, you have the sense and experience to know that "unused but broken" is still broken. Some other twat would probably call them "custom".

 

Maybe I should brazen it out and say "Customised so the couplers don't get caught up in your webbing like they always do!"  I reckon most G36 users do cut them off anyway...

Edited February 16, 2022 by Asomodai

[1967PF44]

1 minute ago, Asomodai said:

 

Maybe I should brazen it out and say "Customised so the couplers don't get caught up in your webbing like they always do!"

Modified for convenience ? Must be worth more....

 

[Asomodai]

2 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

Modified for convenience ? Must be worth more....

 

 

In truth I am pretty good with a dremel. Probably make it look professionally done.

 

Edit: To be honest, anyone who hasn't used a G36 for an extended period of time, will probably call it broken. Anyone who HAS used a G36 platform, will know exactly what I am talking about and be more forgiving. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Asomodai

[1967PF44]

3 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

 

In truth I am pretty good with a dremel. Probably make it look professionally done.

 

Edit: To be honest, anyone who hasn't used a G36 for an extended period of time, will probably call it broken. Anyone who HAS used a G36 platform, will know exactly what I am talking about and be more forgiving. 

I have to find myself disagreeing....lol, its user error, if you actually use the locking lugs with the proper technique they don't break.  Top one in with a downward motion and rotate clockwise to lock lower lug in place, removal is the reverse of fitting. I've never broken one since learning that technique....broke tons before that.. But always get severely frustrated having carefully packed G36 mags I've sold to be told they were damaged in the post.... err Naw, yer an erse and broke them trying to force them together or apart.

 

 

[Asomodai]

8 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

I have to find myself disagreeing....lol, its user error, if you actually use the locking lugs with the proper technique they don't break.  Top one in with a downward motion and rotate clockwise to lock lower lug in place, removal is the reverse of fitting. I've never broken one since learning that technique....broke tons before that.. But always get severely frustrated having carefully packed G36 mags I've sold to be told they were damaged in the post.... err Naw, yer an erse and broke them trying to force them together or apart.

 

 

 

The "Average" Airsofter.

 

Either way, at least I explained it in my ad. I just hope I get some decent money for them! 

 

Funnily enough I am selling them to get some PTS G36 mags which don't have couplers anyway. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Asomodai

[Tackle]

What about the kit, rifs for example, that gets posted up & you immediately think "that looks a bit steep ?", & sure enough 30 seconds on google finds plenty of retailers considerably cheaper BUT THEYRE OUT OF STOCK, is that enough to obviously overprice it or are they just piss taking chancers hoping to exploit some desperate noob with money burning a hole in his pocket (& probably no defence😏)

 

🤔

29 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

 

I would like to think I price my stuff quite nicely though. And my stuff generally does sell.

 

There's absolutely no truth in the rumours mate, I'm ecstatic about about what you sold me, & the image below definitely isn't a depiction of you 😜

[EDcase]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

...In terms of timewasters, unfortunately that's just the nature of the beast sometimes. any time i'm selling i don't set an ad to completed until the paypal transaction has actually gone through. although granted i don't know what the deal is if you're using the built in system as i've never used it properly.

The built-in system is quite good.

You can set the advert to 'Pending' to let people know and stops them making offers but you can turn it back again if it falls through.

 

When I want to sell something I'll start with the highest price I think is reasonable given the rarity, scarcity, condition, performance etc to see if someone is keen enough to buy at that price.  If it doesn't sell I'll lower the price after some time depending how fast I need to shift it.

If it still doesn't sell at the lower price then I'll keep it 😁

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by EDcase

[1967PF44]

my  problems recently are around the offers system, someone makes and offer, I accept then don't hear from them again...

 

Accepting the offer, sets to pending, and puts other potential interested parties off.   Sometimes you only get once chance, and ad viewer wont revisit the ad to see if that actually sold.

[Rogerborg]

5 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

Accepting the offer, sets to pending

 

I wouldn't use that system. Same rules as I do for any face-to-face classified selling: if the advert is still up, it's still available.  It comes down when money has changed hands, and not an instant before.

 

Agreed about the frustration of dealing with fantasists. I try to be scrupulously honest, clear and unambiguous when selling and buying anything. It's rare - but all the more welcome - when that's reciprocated.

[Adolf Hamster]

37 minutes ago, EDcase said:

When I want to sell something I'll start with the highest price I think is reasonable given the rarity, scarcity, condition, performance etc to see if someone is keen enough to buy at that price.  If it doesn't sell I'll lower the price after some time depending how fast I need to shift it.

If it still doesn't sell at the lower price then I'll keep it 😁

 

 

same, set on the higher end of reasonable and drop until at the lower end.

 

ultimately it's a bit of a judgement call, sometimes an item might not be getting interest not because the price is unfair, but because it's just something that not many folk are in the market for, so you either have to drop the price to silly levels to force a "y'know what, might as well" kind of buyer or just accept the waiting.

 

12 minutes ago, 1967PF44 said:

my  problems recently are around the offers system, someone makes and offer, I accept then don't hear from them again...

 

Accepting the offer, sets to pending, and puts other potential interested parties off.   Sometimes you only get once chance, and ad viewer wont revisit the ad to see if that actually sold.

 

so it's automatically switching it for you?

 

iirc only had one advert be contacted as an offer through the system, but nothing happened automatically it just sort of ended up as a typical PM conversation where all the paypal stuff was done just as messages and i manually set the ad to complete when paypal was sorted.

 

from a buying perspective i'd probably still message someone if an ad said pending, if only as a "hey dude, i see this is pending, if it doesn't work out lemme know as i'm interested" kind of thing. if an ad's completed though i will just move past it.

[Rogerborg]

Oh, I should clarify, on the rare occasions when I sell things online, I send a PayPal invoice listing the item, shipping and total cost.  When I'm buying, I ask for one: https://www.paypal.com/invoice/s/create

 

When that's paid, I consider it sold (or bought), and not before.

 

This serves as the record of what's been promised, and asked.  AFUK is just a listing service, not a party to the sale, and nothing said here is going to matter much in the event of a dispute, only what the payment processor can see on their records.

[1967PF44]

15 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Oh, I should clarify, on the rare occasions when I sell things online, I send a PayPal invoice listing the item, shipping and total cost.  When I'm buying, I ask for one: https://www.paypal.com/invoice/s/create

 

When that's paid, I consider it sold (or bought), and not before.

 

This serves as the record of what's been promised, and asked.  AFUK is just a listing service, not a party to the sale, and nothing said here is going to matter much in the event of a dispute, only what the payment processor can see on their records.

That’s all fine for none RIF items, but PayPal still consider airsoft guns to be prohibited items.  So you can’t be honest on a invoice anyway - at least not to the extent of an accurate and detailed description of the RIF.   Although they do turn a blind eye (mostly) and do assist in disputes (mostly) I am aware of situations where they have just suspended both the buyer and seller accounts 

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, 1967PF44 said:

PayPal still consider airsoft guns to be prohibited items

 

They've been back and forth on it a few times, and I'm sure they have purple-haired employees who will potato-screech and ban the face off of anyone flogging so much as a toy cap gun.

 

However, at the moment, the UK prohibition is on "(j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories".

 

They don't mention imitations or replicas, and airsoft guns (under 1.3J / 2.5J) are not firearms (for the purposes of the Firearms Act 1968).

 

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full

 

We could ask their CS goons, and it might be interesting to see how many different answers we get.  

 

I agree with not putting "Real replica imitation firearm shooter gun" on the invoice, but "Jing Gong G36C" or similar is specific without being overt and at least gives you some options.  I'd rather have something on an invoice than no invoice at all.

[1967PF44]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

They've been back and forth on it a few times, and I'm sure there have purple-haired employees who will potato-screech and ban the face off of anyone flogging so much as a toy cap gun.

 

However, at the moment, the UK prohibition is on "(j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories".

 

They don't mention imitations or replicas, and airsoft guns (under 1.3J / 2.5J) are not firearms (for the purposes of the Firearms Act 1968).

 

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full

 

We could ask their CS goons, and it might be interesting to see how many different answers we get.  

 

I agree with not putting "Real replica imitation firearm shooter gun" on the invoice, but "Jing Gong G36C" or similar is specific without being overt and at least gives you some options.  I'd rather have something on an invoice than no invoice at all.

I actually have a formal response from them that confirms that their definition of firearms is inconsistent with Uk law and includes imitations, including airsoft and interestingly paintball markers.  - but that said I have both won and defended claims involving RIFs where they have seen actually images of the items from the sales adverts or from messenger chat extracts 

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, 1967PF44 said:

I actually have a formal response from them that confirms that their definition of firearms is inconsistent with Uk law and includes imitations, including airsoft and interestingly paintball markers.

 

Secret definitions put them on shaky footing.  Contra proferentem seems to apply here: they drafted this contract, so any ambiguity in it would ultimately be decided against them.

 

I'm flirting with their chatbot just now, let's see if I get anywhere beyond "Thank you for your query, fellow human..."

 

UPDATE: Timed out before a response, I broke their simulated brain.  

[Rogerborg]

Update again:

 

Quote

 

It looks like you are referring to our PayPal Acceptable Use Policy. The clause has been very direct because when you think of firearms, it always refers to a rifle, pistol, or other portable gun or any of the sort that involves with anything that is related to this categories.

I hope this information that I provided helps you.

 

 

<eye-roll.gif>

 

I've asked (again) for the actual text used internally by PayPal to decide UK transactions, not for a summary, synopsis, interpretation or opinion.

 

I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Well that's about as clear as mud

 

Also with the word portable being part of their definition of a firearm, can I use PayPal to buy a Phalanx CIWS? Afterall they're not exactly portable