Buying From Gunfire.Pl in the New Year? Might Want to See This

[Sitting Duck]

4 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

I would be interested to hear how a Labour Government would have done any better... 😉

 

2 hours ago, Tommikka said:

By not giving us a referendum ?

 

2 hours ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

Not holding the ref

 

Cheers!

 

1 hour ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

 

Interesting. So you are implying Democracy is a bad thing because you didn't get the outcome you wanted?

 

I don't remember the late '90s/early '00's as halcyon times. Two costly wars, huge public spending, financial collapse and a cute note left in Whitehall - 'there's no money left'.

 

But hey, that's all OK! Labour wouldn't have given us a referendum.

 

I won't comment further on this, consider the above rhetorical - this thread should remain as useful information for post-Brexit buying and not politics, but previous comments whinging about the outcome of two Democratic voting processes deserve a little push-back.

 

TTFN... 😘

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The issue that Labour pledged/promised a referendum on the European Constituion

which later became the Lisbon Treaty - basically the Constitution in a new cover

 

pg 84 of Labour's 2005 manifesto clearly stated they would put it to the people

(remember Labour's BS that their manifesto is a contract with the people)

 

without going into Ireland holding a referendum on Nice & Lisbon

then asking the people to vote again when they first rejected both of them

 

Blair KNEW what was coming and stepped down in July 2007

where the unchallenged Brown was appointed (without any challengers) as PM

who later that year signed the Lisbon 4 hours after most leaders & media had left

and then flat out refused a referendum that was promised in their own manifesto

 

Most of Labour MP's voted to refuse holding a referendum

LibDem's stuck their heads in the sand - though 13 voted in favour of holding one

(see Nick Clegg's referendum on Europe leaflet)

Even the 6 x SNP MP's backed a referendum (how times change)

Conservatives didn't have the votes/support

(even if all the LibDem's sided with them instead of abstaining)

 

So Labour ratified the Treaty of Lisbon without holding a referendum as in their 2005 manifesto/contract with the people

 

 

 

Politicians - they're all lying hypercritical cnuts at the end of the day 

 

NB - this is not to derail this thread as such

(what has happened has happened)

 

more to provide a little history on some the crap that lead us to where we are now

I don't wish to start up or continue Brexit stuff about a referendum blah x3

but just some of what took place that perhaps lead to the referendum being held

 

peace

[Tommikka]

4 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

 

Interesting. So you are implying Democracy is a bad thing because you didn't get the outcome you wanted?

 

I don't remember the late '90s/early '00's as halcyon times. Two costly wars, huge public spending, financial collapse and a cute note left in Whitehall - 'there's no money left'.

 

But hey, that's all OK! Labour wouldn't have given us a referendum.

 

I won't comment further on this, consider the above rhetorical - this thread should remain as useful information for post-Brexit buying and not politics, but previous comments whinging about the outcome of two Democratic voting processes deserve a little push-back.

 

TTFN... 😘

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair point and I’m no fan of labour (nor conservatism)

Democracy - yes, and the result was to invoke article 50 and leave.

I didn’t get the result that I wanted, the majority did 

The real problem behind the referendum question wasn’t that it was an offer of democracy but it was a gamble by Cameron, and when it backfired he promptly quit 

 

A problem with the outcome that the majority voted for is that nobody knew what Brexit they were getting.  Individually voters knew what Brexit they were voting for or against, collectively all they voted for was to invoke article 50.  
The politicians have produced the type of Brexit that has occurred 

[Asomodai]

15 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

 

Interesting. So you are implying Democracy is a bad thing because you didn't get the outcome you wanted?

 

I don't remember the late '90s/early '00's as halcyon times. Two costly wars, huge public spending, financial collapse and a cute note left in Whitehall - 'there's no money left'.

 

But hey, that's all OK! Labour wouldn't have given us a referendum.

 

I won't comment further on this, consider the above rhetorical - this thread should remain as useful information for post-Brexit buying and not politics, but previous comments whinging about the outcome of two Democratic voting processes deserve a little push-back.

 

TTFN... 😘

 

 

18 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

I would be interested to hear how a Labour Government would have done any better... 😉

 

To be fair we haven't had an actual left wing or (it can be argued) centrist government since 1979, I think it's safe to say that the economic and foreign policy issues we have had in the past 10 years couldn't be blamed on the left. Not that I want to spin anything positive on New Labour, but the economic issues and "The note" came after the worldwide stock market crash that we had very little to do with in the first place. If the Conservatives were in charge at the time, the exact same thing would have happened as New Labour were more Tory lite then actual Labour in terms of economic policy. I imagine our current government will blame our economic woes on Covid in the same manner.

In the past 30 years we've only had business comes first; faux Neo Liberalist economically centre right or right wing governments. As a reluctant Remainer (As in I think the EU is corrupt, but I voted remain because as a country we have consistently voted in even more corrupt governments for the past 30 years and are likely to continue to), I think its disingenuous to hypothesise as to what another party would have done in any given situation. 

 

Sadly political discourse has descended into a supporting football team mentality. Shouting down from both sides on subjects that you might even agree with the opposition on, just because it is coming from "them". Which is of course what the ruling "elite" want us to do, let the voters blame and fight each other on any and all issues. Anyone trying to change that status quo will get completely rinsed by the papers (and in recent times yes I do mean JC)

 

Brexit will play out in the next few months or years, conclude where the land lies and then see if it was really the golden goose that was promised, if not and there is a political will, we could always re-join. 

[SBoardley]

Spoken like true lefty. My problem with “ liberals” and the fascist left are that when asked, they cannot express an alternative to conservatives policy. Until they can, we are blue through and through. 

[Lozart]

2 hours ago, Sboardley said:

the fascist left

 

You know that's a contradiction in terms, right? You can't be a fascist if you're left-wing.

[Shamal]

This is how wars start 😉😄

I think this thread has come to the end of the line. Wasn't even on the right track anyway lol

👍

Peace and good happiness stuff.

Regards 

[Adolf Hamster]

Hamster: well well whats going on in here

Thread: politics n shit

Hamster:

[AlphaBear]

Did someone mention the French? 😂

[SBoardley]

Lozart. You know the nazi party started off as socialists right? Like our socialist party that demands you vote for labour right? Because they are backed by labour unions right? And you know that is fringe left that DEMAND we give minority fringe factions more rights than the average joe who just wants to go to work pay their mortgage and have some fun right? You know that Jeremy Corbyn is anti semite and has supported multiple terrorist organisations right? 

[Shamal]

This is all in 'latest news' when in fact it's old news.

Jus sayin' is all

😉🙂

Regards 

[SBoardley]

Yeah you can’t educate pork innit. 

[Asomodai]

27 minutes ago, Sboardley said:

Lozart. You know the nazi party started off as socialists right? Like our socialist party that demands you vote for labour right? Because they are backed by labour unions right? And you know that is fringe left that DEMAND we give minority fringe factions more rights than the average joe who just wants to go to work pay their mortgage and have some fun right? You know that Jeremy Corbyn is anti semite and has supported multiple terrorist organisations right? 

 

Sure Mate

 

[SBoardley]

You obviously don’t really know what you’re talking about “mate “

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

4 minutes ago, Sboardley said:

You obviously don’t really know what you’re talking about “mate “

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism

[Speedbird_666]

 

My bad guys. I dragged the politics into the thread. Apologies.

[Druid799]

2 hours ago, Shamal said:

This is how wars start 😉😄

I thought that was invading Poland ? 😳

[Adolf Hamster]

2 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

My bad guys. I dragged the politics into the thread. Apologies.

 

eh, gotta have some light bed-time reading now and again.

Just now, Druid799 said:

I thought that was invading Poland ? 😳

 

you mean east germany?

 

[Druid799]

17 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

My bad guys. I dragged the politics into the thread. Apologies.

Bollox you need to apologize ! If people can’t have a round of good old political fisticuffs without turning it in to a handbag swinging contest not your fault !

🤣

2 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

Did someone mention the French? 😂

If Someone did I'm sure they’ve surrendered by now ‘just Incase’ 😉
 

14 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

eh, gotta have some light bed-time reading now and again.

 

you mean east germany?

 

Nah definitely Poland 😁

[SBoardley]

Dralexander...pretty much all I got from that was :”12. Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters. This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons – doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise.

I mean there was some lovely long werdz an all that but..........I guess we are all fascists?

btw 25 yes ago I was a paid up member of the swp.. we even had little fist badges and had to give our vote to the our labour benefactors 

 

[SBoardley]

Me being fascist and playing with weapons instead of sortin the missus out!

[Albiscuit]

We may have voted to leave, twice, but some hard info and evidence of what it actually meant for us would have been nice rather than made up nonsense and the media turning into a popularity contest.

 

we are WAAAAY past proper democracy nowadays and all of our (and ‘Muricas’) political decisions will be dominated by ‘characters’ and be decided by who the media get behind

[Shamal]

48 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

My bad guys. I dragged the politics into the thread. Apologies.

Ban him! Ban the witch! 

Lol 😉

Regards 

[Adolf Hamster]

46 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Nah definitely Poland 

 

Ahh, i get you now, you're walking about western russia 😛

 

 

[Shamal]

14 minutes ago, Albiscuit said:

We may have voted to leave, twice, but some hard info and evidence of what it actually meant for us would have been nice rather than made up nonsense and the media turning into a popularity contest.

 

we are WAAAAY past proper democracy nowadays and all of our (and ‘Muricas’) political decisions will be dominated by ‘characters’ and be decided by who the media get behind

Dont give up on democracy. Trouble is a lot of people wont exercise their rights. If you dont use them you will loose them.

There can be no government without the masses. Therefore the voice of the people is a strong and valid force.but dont let your rights be slowly and covertly eroded.we vote with our voices and our feet.

Dont just sit back and let things engulf you.that is lazy. Stand up and be counted!

Regards 

[Albiscuit]

Don’t get me wrong I exercise my right each and every time. 
 

I can just see the shit show it’s turning into. 90% of mouthy Tory supporters I encountered spouted media untruths as facts and couldn’t tell me which part of the actual Tory manifesto they agreed with as their opinions were based on what they read on Facebook, saw in the daily star or heard down the pub or were not Tory supporters they just believed what they heard about JC and were against him from the same sources as above. 

 

just look at America right now  

things need to change but I don’t believe they will.