A Little Shady

[kasaran]

For me, this seems like a shady practice/loop hole around getting a two tone gun without a UKARA...  For an extra £60-70 you can get the parts in black...

 

https://www.justbbguns.co.uk/parts/airsoft-conversion-kits/bulldog-black-conversion-kits/

 

*read the description first... apparently its for after UKARA...ops*

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

seems legit.....

 

 

[Tackle]

Clearly moody, proof in the pudding will be if they ask for a defence at point of purchase, I doubt they'll say feck all 😏

[BigStew]

Not the dodgiest thing I have seen. Anyone remember  Airsoft World selling cosplay liability insurance to buy RIFs.

[Tommikka]

With these items JustBB can legally sell parts, any issues under the VCRA would be a buyer who modifies an IF into a RIF as opposed to an actual RIF sale which would be the sellers responsibility under the VCRA 

 

Under their RIF terms below they accept JustCos and also Civil Servants.

 

JustCos has no valid position under the VCRA (or statutory instrument) 

I’ve been going to Comicons and have found that all of the rules I have checked disallow airsoft RIFs - In Comicon rules they must be incable of firing and require colouring etc thus cannot be RIFs

(There is a difference though between attending Cosplayers and ‘professional’ featured Cosplayers - those who are performing and meet the other criteria can fall within the theatrical defence, and have a different  contract with the events in comparison to ticket holding Cosplayers)

 

Civil Servants have no defence (unless acting as a crown servant in their role) 

According to JustBB I can buy a RIF due to my day job.

They perhaps meant the Crown Servants defence.  This is to allow for the purchase of RIFs in Crown business (in a similar manner to the purchase of firearms in crown business)

Civil Servants are Crown Servants but not all Crown Servants are Civil Servants

 

 

There is an option - refer JustBB to trading standards

RIF DEFENCE - (IF PURCHASING A BLACK GUN/PISTOL)

If you are purchasing a two-tone blue, orange, green or pink gun/pistol or accessories you do not need to enter any defence. In order for us to sell you an Airsoft Replica, known as (RIF) Realistic Imitation Firearm, a gun or pistol that is all black, tan, gold or silver, we require that you provide a defence. This was put in place by the Violent Crimes Reduction Act 2006, where the purchaser must have a reason for purchasing.

PLEASE ENTER YOUR DEFENCE AND MEMBERSHIP INFO OR ID NUMBERS INTO THE NOTES FIELD ABOVE

UKARA member
UKAPU member
Skirmish site member
Just-Cos Insurance
Delivery address is not in the UK
Re-enactment group
For and on behalf of a museum
Film or TV
Civil service
Other please supply info

RIF WARNING

If you order an all black, tan, gold or silver gun/pistol and do not supply the relevant information within 5 working days of your order we will supply you with the same gun or pistol but in two tone blue to comply with UK law.

AGE RESTRICTIONS FOR ALL GUNS AND PISTOLS

The sales of airsoft BB guns and pistols is restricted to adults aged 18 years or over only. There is no minimum age requirement by law to use them, however adult supervision is recommended at all times.

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

20 hours ago, kasaran said:

For me, this seems like a shady practice/loop hole around getting a two tone gun without a UKARA...  For an extra £60-70 you can get the parts in black...

 

https://www.justbbguns.co.uk/parts/airsoft-conversion-kits/bulldog-black-conversion-kits/

 

*read the description first... apparently its for after UKARA...op

 

 

Not only is not a loophole its just a good idea and very helpful for younger players, as there is no age restriction associated with "manufacturing a rif".

 

We have to bear in mind that the big reason for our "defence" is that the good folks at the ABA were able to suffiicently persuade the powers that be that skirmishing with a two tone or transparent gun was just "not the same".

 

As such the justification for our defence relies on RIFs, not IFs, being used for airsoft skirmishing, and so anything to help young players skirmish with a RIF, is a good thing...imo.

 

Thanks 

 

Edit: I have nothing against people using IFs for skirmishing but it is what it is. 

 

[Groot]

I never understood the logic of two toned guns. 

They are in the most part, black guns that someone sprayed to bright colours.
You could remove said paint fairly easily or just spray over the bright colours with £6 of tan krylon and have a dope looking dessie gun.

Standard government logic that makes zero impact to someone who wants to misuse a RIF.

[Tommikka]

43 minutes ago, Groot said:

I never understood the logic of two toned guns. 

They are in the most part, black guns that someone sprayed to bright colours.
You could remove said paint fairly easily or just spray over the bright colours with £6 of tan krylon and have a dope looking dessie gun.

Standard government logic that makes zero impact to someone who wants to misuse a RIF.

That’s why it’s called the Violent Crime Reduction Act and not the Violent Crime Prevention Act

 

You can remove paint or repaint, but are then committing another offence under the act.

In earlier drafts it was an explicit offence to modify an IF into a RIF, but later rewording could legitimise modification if it is in line with one of the defences.

 

The act is primarily an anti chav law, removing some of the ease of putting RIFs into the hands of chavs and children.  It doesn’t impact upon more serious lawbreakers 

 

 

[Groot]

1 minute ago, Tommikka said:

That’s why it’s called the Violent Crime Reduction Act and not the Violent Crime Prevention Act

 

You can remove paint or repaint, but are then committing another offence under the act.

In earlier drafts it was an explicit offence to modify an IF into a RIF, but later rewording could legitimise modification if it is in line with one of the defences.

 

The act is primarily an anti chav law, removing some of the ease of putting RIFs into the hands of chavs and children.  It doesn’t impact upon more serious lawbreakers 

 

 

 

That's all well and good and I don't disagree with your points.. I just think it is entirely pointless in reality. 

Chav's buy 2 tone gun and shoot each other in the eyes or old ladies while driving by in their cars.
Crim buys 2 tone gun, hammerite from B&Q. Instantly has a RIF.

Unless you buy a two tone and then spray it in front of a police officer. It's impossible to enforce. So again, pointless. 

But it ticked the boxes so we could continue our hobby. So yay, i guess. 
 

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, Groot said:

 

That's all well and good and I don't disagree with your points.. I just think it is entirely pointless in reality. 

Chav's buy 2 tone gun and shoot each other in the eyes or old ladies while driving by in their cars.
Crim buys 2 tone gun, hammerite from B&Q. Instantly has a RIF.

Unless you buy a two tone and then spray it in front of a police officer. It's impossible to enforce. So again, pointless. 

But it ticked the boxes so we could continue our hobby. So yay, i guess. 
 

But it would prevent a kid from being shot for pulling a two tone out of his jeans, without relying on armed police hesitation.

A bright blue pistol would give visual information.

 

 

You don’t have to be a chav or dickhead to be at risk.  It just needs the call to the police to be inaccurate enough for current circumstances 

Harry Stanley was shot by police for his reactions during the IRA London campaign when reported for having an Irish accent and carrying a sawn off shotgun in a bag, whereas he actually had a Glaswegian accent and a table leg in a carrier bag.

 

 

[ZeroDark&Dirty]

On 29/06/2020 at 18:20, Tommikka said:

But it would prevent a kid from being shot for pulling a two tone out of his jeans, without relying on armed police hesitation.

A bright blue pistol would give visual information.

 

 

You don’t have to be a chav or dickhead to be at risk.  It just needs the call to the police to be inaccurate enough for current circumstances 

Harry Stanley was shot by police for his reactions during the IRA London campaign when reported for having an Irish accent and carrying a sawn off shotgun in a bag, whereas he actually had a Glaswegian accent and a table leg in a carrier bag.

 

 

But a wrong-un could by the same logic paint a legit firearm to look blue/orange/green/pink etc. to also fool armed police into thinking it wasn't real - when in fact it was.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ZeroDark&Dirty said:

But a wrong-un could by the same logic paint a legit firearm to look blue/orange/green/pink etc. to also fool armed police into thinking it wasn't real - when in fact it was.

So true, same as Orange tips in the US, and luminous lemon paint jobs in Spain 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Wo1f]

It’s all bollocks. The only real thing it’s good for is the stigma of people not wanting to play with a 2 tone one. That makes a lot of people rent and play their 3 games and within those 3 games most people have decided if airsoft is for them or not. So you’ve not got loads of RIF’s owned by people who played once (or never). 
 

[rj1986]

I've never understood some aspects of the VCRA

 

Like if you were going to knock over a post office, you would do it with a £20 springer off a market stall, not a £1k SRS with an optic the size of aberdeen.

 

Yet both are treated the same

 

Edit: In relation to the buying/selling aspect. Of course to Joe Public, anything gun shaped is a gun

[Albiscuit]

Its all nonses, unless there is a proper effort to regulate and recognition of airsoft from a governing body/government we are stuck with this. 

 

And stuck with threads once a week debating it. Anyone with experience knows its nonsense and hardly stops people from getting RIFS. We have all seen market stalls selling to kids or have bought second hand RIFS with no chat about a defence. Hell I have bought RIFS at physical airsoft shopes without a mention of a defence.

 

[Speedbird_666]

If the VCRA keep the politicians happy, and the legit Airsoft community keeps it's head down and off any agenda with said politicians, I'm quite happy to jump through the necessary hoops.

 

Things could be far worse than what we've got.

 

Examples off the top of my head:

Australia - they've only just got 'gel blasters' in certain states, banned in others, or a firearms license required.

Portugal - mandatory membership and neon colouring of their guns

Germany - Semi only and add a laser or torch and you've broken the law.

 

I wish people will stop fucking moaning about VRCA/UKARA etc. and the flaws behind them. Any changes at a political level will always be for the worse. We've got it better than other countries.

[Adolf Hamster]

12 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

Germany - Semi only and add a laser or torch and you've broken the law.

 

afaik isn't it that they have an 0.5j limit for full auto so most folk elect to simply semi-lock and run at 1j

[Speedbird_666]

1 minute ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

afaik isn't it that they have an 0.5j limit for full auto so most folk elect to simply semi-lock and run at 1j

 

Pedantry.

 

The point stands - they have restrictions that we don't.

 

Anyway, playing airsoft at 230fps (0.49j @ 0.2g) would suck balls, full-auto or not.

[Adolf Hamster]

31 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

Pedantry.

 

The point stands - they have restrictions that we don't.

 

Anyway, playing airsoft at 230fps (0.49j @ 0.2g) would suck balls, full-auto or not.

 

if everyone was stuck at similar it'd probably be ok, you'll just find the the engagement distances change to compensate.

 

 

[Tackle]

3 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

If the VCRA keep the politicians happy, and the legit Airsoft community keeps it's head down and off any agenda with said politicians, I'm quite happy to jump through the necessary hoops.

 

Things could be far worse than what we've got.

 

Examples off the top of my head:

Australia - they've only just got 'gel blasters' in certain states, banned in others, or a firearms license required.

Portugal - mandatory membership and neon colouring of their guns

Germany - Semi only and add a laser or torch and you've broken the law.

 

I wish people will stop fucking moaning about VRCA/UKARA etc. and the flaws behind them. Any changes at a political level will always be for the worse. We've got it better than other countries.

Problem is there's alway someone who wants to "reinvent the wheel", never happy with the rules, never happy with the gun FPS & RPS, etc etc.

Accept what we've got, it's not perfect but it could be a lot worse.😏

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

On 01/07/2020 at 03:45, ZeroDark&Dirty said:

But a wrong-un could by the same logic paint a legit firearm to look blue/orange/green/pink etc. to also fool armed police into thinking it wasn't real - when in fact it was.

 

I think in that case, regardless of what colour the gun was, if he had pointed that gun at the officer instead of throwing it to the ground, the officer probably would have shot him.