Could this show airsoft in a bad light?

[Wo1f]

31 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said:

Er.........................just no 

 

Airsoft is not serious, it is not a military simulation it is just fucking hide and seek with a bb gun.

It’s not serious, but at the same time, there should be a level of decency and professionalism, like in any sport. 

 

And as we’re not being politically correct.. it is ALWAYS some obese tosser with no camo and either a HPA setup or some sort of firehawk type thing with coloured bling bits on. Doesn’t matter what site, cqb or woodland. If someone complains of being overshot, give them that description and your response will always be “that’s the guy! You’ve seen him too?!” 

 

For me, it’s not about the pain but the harm. I got tagged in the face on Saturday by a sniper that put me on my ass from a crouching position. Hurt like hell but I stood up and shouted to him that was an amazing shot. At the same time, seeing someone hose someone down and I just think what is the point of that? I know there’s different ‘play styles’, but there’s really no need for that shit. 

[ImTriggerHappy]

1 hour ago, Wo1f said:

It’s not serious, but at the same time, there should be a level of decency and professionalism, like in any sport. 

 

And as we’re not being politically correct.. it is ALWAYS some obese tosser with no camo and either a HPA setup or some sort of firehawk type thing with coloured bling bits on. Doesn’t matter what site, cqb or woodland. If someone complains of being overshot, give them that description and your response will always be “that’s the guy! You’ve seen him too?!” 

 

For me, it’s not about the pain but the harm. I got tagged in the face on Saturday by a sniper that put me on my ass from a crouching position. Hurt like hell but I stood up and shouted to him that was an amazing shot. At the same time, seeing someone hose someone down and I just think what is the point of that? I know there’s different ‘play styles’, but there’s really no need for that shit. 

For one it is not a sport it's a hobby. There are levels of decency and they are covered in the site rules. If players do not follow them then the site should remove them. If this doesn't occur then that is the sites fault and it is time to vote with your feet.

 

A competency test is a daft idea. Most players after even 10yrs can't set a bloody hop properly so there is no hope for a new guy. But the main point is this is all meant to be fun and adding tests is just bad form.

 

As for generalisations lets not go there as everyone has different viewpoints on it and the loudest are always from those that are generally the real problem. There is no winner so best left I think.

[Wo1f]

You’re playing a game and there’s a winning and loosing team. Isn’t that the definition of a sport? The site I play at is beyond fantastic. I had the best game I’ve played in years on Saturday. It’s just one or two individuals, and it’s always the same type of people. It’s hard to Marshall overkill. Over 60 players all spread out over a massive woodland. I think there’s a difference between rules and sportsmanship. 

 

If you cant adjust a hop up then you’ve no right playing. Because again, these are the people that shout ‘I’m hitting them, and they’re not taking their hits!’ I don’t care what sport or hobby you do, if you can’t do the basics then you don’t play the game. You don’t put an amateur on a motocross bike and just send him on the track, you don’t let a snowboarder go off the highest slip for the first time. It’s not safe for them or others. 

 

Everyone does have different viewpoints. All I’m saying is every time there’s a complaint, it’s directed at that sort of person. Maybe the dozens of incidents over the years are all a mysterious coincidence?

[Aengus]

11 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

Everyone does have different viewpoints. All I’m saying is every time there’s a complaint, it’s directed at that sort of person. Maybe the dozens of incidents over the years are all a mysterious coincidence?

Have you ever heard of confirmation bias?

 

Whenever I see broad strokes it's always directed at the most easily identified players e.g. hpa, no camo, not larpy gun etc etc. Does make me wonder if they truly are more of a problem than others or just far easier to remember.

[Wo1f]

When it’s the opposite team it’s easy to say that. When it’s the guy besides you on your own team, it’s not bias, it’s a fact. 

[Jedi_Master]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

these folks aren't "new" players generally, and often they can have quite high end hardware, just no understanding of how it works.

 

No idea how it works, apart from the TM magic inside. Load a mag, point the thin end at other team and pew pew pew until it clicks .

[ImTriggerHappy]

18 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

You’re playing a game and there’s a winning and loosing team. Isn’t that the definition of a sport? 

It could be and it can also be the definition of "Call of Duty" so.......

 

As for cant adjust a hop then no right playing to be honest I would rather play alongside someone with a badly set hop than someone with such an elitist attitude. That whole attitude is the biggest problem in airsoft. I love playing alongside rentals, kids and even speedsofters because I love the enthusiasm people like that have. Also the fact I see the whole thing as stupid fun means I never take any of it serious. 

The only winners in airsoft are the guy an girls who are smiling. 

 

But I will tell you this and this is from playing and marshalling that the worst players I have ever encountered do not fit into your demographic. 

[Druid799]

On 23/02/2019 at 20:53, EvilMonkee said:

I am a currently serving RAF Military Police Officer 

Holy crap ! He’s a crab airways car pass checker ! 😱

😂😂😂

[Wo1f]

@ImTriggerHappy they’re called E sports and there’s huge prize money... Fishing for me is a hobby, but it can also be a sport. 

 

Im not an elitist. Every time I’m shot I congratulate the guy or girl who shot me. I always take my hits, even if it could have been a ricochet. I’ve got a massive respect for the young/ new players who play aggressively and with enthusiasm. 

 

What im saying is the people who play badly and are unsportsmanlike seem to always seem to be the same type of people. And instead of just throwing someone to the wolves for 3 games, why not educate them in getting the most out of the gun, and how to play with a level of decency. That way, nobody is pissed off and they end up with a better experience 

[Druid799]

5 hours ago, Seth_K said:

 The game itself has to change, moving away from just hits being the be all and end all. 

Simple question for you , Why ?

This is my 19th yr of playing and during that time the ‘be all and end all’ has always been (and god hope it never changes) just hit the other player first , there’s always some kind of theme or objective to the game but the only real reason ultimately for the game is ‘take out’ the other team .

3 hours ago, Seth_K said:

 

That will always be the core of the experience, however, to ensure we foster a great community spirit is would be wise to encourage behavior that causes players to think about the team as a whole and not solely their own gratification.

 

I do have some ideas on how to do that, you know I like to add suggestions and not just general goals, but we'd be going over old ground.

 

Let's look elsewhere for an example, if the Call of Duty crowd is not desirable, what current group is the opposite to them?

Again I say why ? As tackle said nothing more fun than a simple attack and defend game , there the best ! And as Rogerborg also said you can start out with good intentions of missions and goals but eventually most players are just playing team death match and small number are still playing the objective of the game ! 

If a player really wants more structure to there game (I certainly don’t ) then there’s more than enough companies already catering to that market via ‘mil-sim’ games .

Ultimately for my self , and it’s fair to say most of the very good friends I’ve made through airsofting the objective is to socialize with the group , decompress from the pressures of normal life by shooting each other and then having a bloody good laugh about it in the safezone ? For me it’s a very good example of an “ if it ain’t broke , don’t try and fix it !” Scenario .

[Adolf Hamster]

35 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

If you cant adjust a hop up then you’ve no right playing. Because again, these are the people that shout ‘I’m hitting them, and they’re not taking their hits!’ I don’t care what sport or hobby you do, if you can’t do the basics then you don’t play the game. You don’t put an amateur on a motocross bike and just send him on the track, you don’t let a snowboarder go off the highest slip for the first time. It’s not safe for them or others. 

 

i wouldn't say it's exclusive, just one of the things i've noticed from folk who subscribe to the predator school of forest warfare.

 

i'll gladly offer advice to inexperienced players, hell i've been shot out more than once while showing a rental kid how to wind a mag or adjust a hop and that's fine. hell even experienced players sometimes need a shout-out if you can see something they can't.

 

however i'm not going to enable someone who's opening tactic is to cut down every hedge they see just in case there's someone hiding in it by giving them advice.

 

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

11 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

@ImTriggerHappy they’re called E sports and there’s huge prize money... Fishing for me is a hobby, but it can also be a sport. 

 

Im not an elitist. Every time I’m shot I congratulate the guy or girl who shot me. I always take my hits, even if it could have been a ricochet. I’ve got a massive respect for the young/ new players who play aggressively and with enthusiasm. 

 

What im saying is the people who play badly and are unsportsmanlike seem to always seem to be the same type of people. And instead of just throwing someone to the wolves for 3 games, why not educate them in getting the most out of the gun, and how to play with a level of decency. That way, nobody is pissed off and they end up with a better experience 

 

E-sports is a very niche side of computer gaming not the whole picture. As for whether its actually a sport in the normal sense thats debatable.

 

Airsoft as a whole is people running around shooting at each other for fun. There are no prizes, no accolades no rank system and looking at some of the chubbers very little physical ability so its definitely a game. The only side of airsoft that is moving towards becoming a sport is speedsoft. That is played by none camo wearing hpa using trigger spamming racing snakes who can't set a hop either. 

 

It's only a game.

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Aengus said:

Whenever I see broad strokes it's always directed at the most easily identified players e.g. hpa, no camo, not larpy gun etc etc. Does make me wonder if they truly are more of a problem than others or just far easier to remember.

Id say yes and no to this , I do agree a lot of false accusations are aimed at HPA players BUT if you were to set out a statistical table of proven transgressions of this type then I also do believe that you will find there’s a much hire percentage of HPA than other platforms it’s the nature of the beast .

if I’ve got a bog standard combat machine with 2 hi-caps stuck in my trackies I’m gona be hard pressed to really ‘over kill’ another player BUT yet again if I’m running an air rig that I can crank up to a ridiculous rate of fire ‘ so I’ve got a faster trigger response’ (Yea right !🤦‍♂️) then I can seriously ‘over kill’ another player very badly if I so wished ? I also can confirm from personal experience that sadly some of the worst incidents I’ve seen have been by this group .

its no different from people complaining in the press that black young men are more likely to be stopped and searched by the police than a white teen , BUT statistically a young black man is more likely to be stabbed by another black youth than the white youth so the figures uphold the reasoning behind the stop&search policy . 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Worst overshooter I know is in his 50s and uses a TM recoil. It's not the gun or the outfit that makes you a cock it's genetic.

[Adolf Hamster]

12 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Id say yes and no to this , I do agree a lot of false accusations are aimed at HPA players BUT if you were to set out a statistical table of proven transgressions of this type then I also do believe that you will find there’s a much hire percentage of HPA than other platforms it’s the nature of the beast .

 

it is indeed, as a fat hpa user who pushes for high rate of fire even i agree that a lot of overshooting comes from that ilk.

 

i will and have mag dumped folk in the past, but only ever after a short burst/few pops of semi isn't enough to convince them they've been hit.

[Wo1f]

I’m not arguing that it can’t be another demographic. I think you all know my feeling on Mattthewanker, who used a lot of the same gear I do. I’m simply saying you can’t ignore the fact that almost all bad experiences with players have fit into the description I’ve given. It’s not just ‘elitist’ me. When a young kid with a two toner comes up and is complaining about the same type of person it’s obviously the fault of the moron, not just me or some kid being prejudiced against ‘speedsofter’ types. 

 

This sport will only grow with retention of players. If someone starts new and isn’t shown the way, he’s gonna get disheartened with it and leave. It’s no good for the game itself or the industry. I’d rather people got some etiquette hammered into them early so they continue to enjoy the game and be a joy to play with. 

[Vulpiness]

8 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Oh baby. 

8 hours ago, jcheeseright said:

 

Air launched torpedo with an active seeker head.  

Why air launched? Is just because the helo infrastructure is already in place or? 

Also how do you even know it's there if you can't ping a modern one? 

I carry 7 mags with 30 rounds (well 33, but 3 of those don't get fed), meaning I basically have one highcap, I've never ran out of ammo. and I can't really overshoot. I have a great time. 

[Druid799]

4 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

i will and have mag dumped folk in the past, but only ever after a short burst/few pops of semi isn't enough to convince them they've been hit.

This highlights the dilemma, I my self (like many others) have over the yrs indulged in more than a few mag dumps at some ‘deserving’ soul , but the problems ocure over deciding who deserves it and who dosent ? Yesterday was playing at one of my home sites and did near empty a mag in too a player who really did deserve it , I’d had a few ‘run in’s’ with him my self throughout the day (was a low turnout so easily identified) with ‘dubious’ hit or not hits but it was such a good day due to the low numbers AND the cracking weather didn’t really care and let it slide but last but one game of the day he really was taking the piss both my self and the guy next to me were pumping the single rounds in to him with no effect at close range so I did say to my self “f**k it ! He’s having it” switched to auto and dumped what was left of my mid at him , as did the chap next to me ! 😂

now as he was wearing a UBACS with a belt and two pistols you can not say he wouldn’t have felt the semi hits from two players at close range so as the old saying says “you reap what you sow” 😉

[EvilMonkee]

2 hours ago, Druid799 said:

Holy crap ! He’s a crab airways car pass checker ! 😱

😂😂😂

 

We don't do the front gate anymore, thats MPGS.  Haven't in some years actually

 

I do Cyber Security Vulnerability Analysis

 

 

[Druid799]

17 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

 

We don't do the front gate anymore, thats MPGS.  Haven't in some years actually

 

I do Cyber Security Vulnerability Analysis

 

 

Ooohh sounds posh , so what you actually mean is you stop junior airmen down loading porn ! 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[clumpyedge]

I’m just amazed us systema users havnt been mentioned yet....

 

 

I’ll wait for my notications to light up telling me how I’m a cheat/spammer/non-hit taker and reply in the morning when it gets to page 20

 

😘

[Wo1f]

That used to be a thing. Can honestly say I’ve not seen a systema out in the wild for a long time

[Vulpiness]

4 minutes ago, clumpyedge said:

I’m just amazed us systema users havnt been mentioned yet....

 

 

I’ll wait for my notications to light up telling me how I’m a cheat/spammer/non-hit taker and reply in the morning when it gets to page 20

 

😘

You are a cheat/spammer/non-hit taker.
Happy now?

[clumpyedge]

4 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

That used to be a thing. Can honestly say I’ve not seen a systema out in the wild for a long time

 

Still is. In fairness anyone that wears anything over £30 seems to be a cheater etc as well.

 

Nearly every site I play at has some bright spark chime in when a marshal mentions cheaters.

 

As a marshal the highest number of cheaters actually comes from rentals and the older generation. 

 

3 minutes ago, Vulpiness said:

You are a cheat/spammer/non-hit taker.
Happy now?

 

😉

[Tommikka]

I look away a bit and everyone posts multiple twists on the thread!

 

Game or sport - this is a regular paintball discussion.

There are firm definitions on ‘recognsied sports’

Football is a recognised sport. However a kick about in the garden or the park is just a game.

A competitive game of football, in a formal league, under the national and international governing bodies etc is the sport.

 

A competitive game of paintball such as the CPPS leagues on a national basis, the former millennium, NXL Europe and in the US are the nearest that there is to a sport.  But despite the efforts of some key people in the UK the players claiming to be sportsmen won’t support their governing body, let alone American players who throw their teddies in the corner whenever someone tries to come up with a single rule book (even when that ‘single’ rule book is an American version and a rest of world version) so tournament paintball in the UK is the closet thing to paintball as a sport.  But its a long way from being recognised

 

Under any such criteria Paintball is not a sport, and airsoft is far behind.

They are games

 

.........

 

Drug props etc are right up my street, this takes us to the ‘Scenario’ format with themed missions, but you need to know your players.

Scenario Paintball is totally up my street, hence we became Scenario event organisers.

Scenario was in its boom when i began (and this year there’s a collective bringing back games by players for players)

 

Airsoft that I have seen is on a par to walkon Paintball. It’s mainly regular players, playing their local site. Different people want different things from their game.  You could have a high or low ratio locally of people who just want a simple shoot out, those who want to scavenge, those who want a mission objective etc 

We have brought Scenario formats to airsoft, but before we ran any game we had our guys watching the airsofters, and spoke with the marshalls etc 

We ‘always’ aim to cater for multiple types of players - though we also do want to put in ideas just to see what happens.

 

Ill also let you into an open secret.  Every organiser (should) manipulate games.  (The exception being a tournament)

You cannot write a game plan and format and expect things to go as designed, or let one side keep winning.

There is the fairness element that the side that bothers to understand the game rules, such as point earning missions etc should be winning.

But if it’s too far one way or the other then you end up with half your players miserable.

Organisers plan for various eventualities and you always want the final results to be hanging on the balance of the last mission

 

However, Its also a bit pointless if you have ‘scoring’ items and no results at the end of the day 

 

 

.........

This also goes into site design

The amount of times I’ve heard players telling me that they would design their fields ‘properly’ so they don’t get shot in the back when defending a bunker, fort etc  ...... however its always ‘easier’ to defend. The buildings and defences must be designed to allow for attacking and defending as a game as opposed to being designed purely to be defended (as you would make real life Defences)