Could this show airsoft in a bad light?

[jcheeseright]

2 hours ago, Vulpiness said:

 

Why air launched? Is just because the helo infrastructure is already in place or? 
 

 

Stand-off ASW, a submarine has very few weapons that can threaten a helicopter, if you're on a surface ship and the submarine is showing on your active SONAR, you've been showing on his for a very long time which means you're dead but you just don't know it yet.  A helicopter can get on top of the submarine's location, lower it's SONAR into the water or drop a row/field of sonobouys and bang away on active with very little threat to itself, the submarine will know exactly where the helicopter is but won't be able to do anything about it but try and hide.  

 

 

[SgtTalbert]

9 minutes ago, jcheeseright said:

 

Stand-off ASW, a submarine has very few weapons that can threaten a helicopter, if you're on a surface ship and the submarine is showing on your active SONAR, you've been showing on his for a very long time which means you're dead but you just don't know it yet.  A helicopter can get on top of the submarine's location, lower it's SONAR into the water or drop a row/field of sonobouys and bang away on active with very little threat to itself, the submarine will know exactly where the helicopter is but won't be able to do anything about it but try and hide.  

 

 

I'd love to watch Hunter Killer with you

[EvilMonkee]

1 hour ago, Druid799 said:

Ooohh sounds posh , so what you actually mean is you stop junior airmen down loading porn ! 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Only if they are on deployed Ops....

 

I look at our aircraft and the supporting networks around them

[Adolf Hamster]

yeah i think i might have to give up on this thread, we have at least 3 seperate discussions going on now don't know what the hell is going on

[Vulpiness]

19 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

 

Only if they are on deployed Ops....

 

I look at our aircraft and the supporting networks around them

Try not to let the iranians down any of our drones, as the moron americans are happy to allow. XD 

57 minutes ago, jcheeseright said:

 

Stand-off ASW, a submarine has very few weapons that can threaten a helicopter, if you're on a surface ship and the submarine is showing on your active SONAR, you've been showing on his for a very long time which means you're dead but you just don't know it yet.  A helicopter can get on top of the submarine's location, lower it's SONAR into the water or drop a row/field of sonobouys and bang away on active with very little threat to itself, the submarine will know exactly where the helicopter is but won't be able to do anything about it but try and hide.  

 

 

Didn't you just say sonar no-longer works? Or does it not work for ships, and the helos have to be very far away from the ship to keep the sub out of range? 

A sub has very few weapons that threaten a helo, better get that sorted then. could you not put AA missles in a launchbay? (moving away from the current situation)  

So do ship have sonar just for torpedos or older subs, or what? 

[SgtTalbert]

34 minutes ago, Vulpiness said:

Try not to let the iranians down any of our drones, as the moron americans are happy to allow. XD 

Didn't you just say sonar no-longer works? Or does it not work for ships, and the helos have to be very far away from the ship to keep the sub out of range? 

A sub has very few weapons that threaten a helo, better get that sorted then. could you not put AA missles in a launchbay? (moving away from the current situation)  

So do ship have sonar just for torpedos or older subs, or what? 

 

I'm probably horrendously wrong. However, in a 'war' scenario, unless the subs 'out on a limb' there would most likely be some sort of close air support if there's active enemy air about hunting subs and or ships. 

 

To my knowledge, subs are very good at tracking, under and above water warfare. Long range sea to land. Adding another 'string to their bow' to my mind would potentially be detrimental to their pre-existing arsenal.

 

I could, however, be talking shit. Who knows 

[jcheeseright]

1 hour ago, Vulpiness said:

Try not to let the iranians down any of our drones, as the moron americans are happy to allow. XD 

Didn't you just say sonar no-longer works? Or does it not work for ships, and the helos have to be very far away from the ship to keep the sub out of range? 

A sub has very few weapons that threaten a helo, better get that sorted then. could you not put AA missles in a launchbay? (moving away from the current situation)  

So do ship have sonar just for torpedos or older subs, or what? 

I said no such thing, modern SONAR is extremely effective, it just doesn't make a ping noise anymore! 

 

A submarine's effective torpedo range is determined by 2 factors, the actual range of the torpedo and the submarine's ability to form a firing solution.  Generally a submarine has much more capable SONAR than surface ships as it's their only eyes (ears?) and so their ability to detect and track ships at distance is better.  Added to that, submarine's can hide in isothermal layers in the sea which refract sound waves and confuse shipbourne SONAR, the submarine of course knows the isotherm is there and so can compensate for it.  

 

Surface ships have hull mounted active SONAR to deter and as a last resort detect submarines, if they wanted to track a sub at distance then using a towed array passive SONAR is the best bet, but it's awkward and very difficult to get a firing solution using passive alone.  Added to that, the torpedos fitted to ships are very short range and just for counter fire really. 

 

Submarine launched anti air missiles have been invented but they require the submarine to come up to a certain depth to launch which of course makes detection much more likely, generally if a submarine is being prosecuted by air assets they'll run and hide rather than attempt to fight.  Also, the second a missile breaks the water everyone knows exactly where the submarine is so can just drop a torpedo on that spot and be almost guaranteed to ruin their day. 

[Vulpiness]

16 minutes ago, jcheeseright said:

I said no such thing, modern SONAR is extremely effective, it just doesn't make a ping noise anymore! 

 

A submarine's effective torpedo range is determined by 2 factors, the actual range of the torpedo and the submarine's ability to form a firing solution.  Generally a submarine has much more capable SONAR than surface ships as it's their only eyes (ears?) and so their ability to detect and track ships at distance is better.  Added to that, submarine's can hide in isothermal layers in the sea which refract sound waves and confuse shipbourne SONAR, the submarine of course knows the isotherm is there and so can compensate for it.  

 

Surface ships have hull mounted active SONAR to deter and as a last resort detect submarines, if they wanted to track a sub at distance then using a towed array passive SONAR is the best bet, but it's awkward and very difficult to get a firing solution using passive alone.  Added to that, the torpedos fitted to ships are very short range and just for counter fire really. 

 

Submarine launched anti air missiles have been invented but they require the submarine to come up to a certain depth to launch which of course makes detection much more likely, generally if a submarine is being prosecuted by air assets they'll run and hide rather than attempt to fight.  Also, the second a missile breaks the water everyone knows exactly where the submarine is so can just drop a torpedo on that spot and be almost guaranteed to ruin their day. 

Ah, sorry I took that figuratively as in "pinged". Although I'm sure they re-used the "ping" noise somewhere, shame if they didn't, perhaps on a "testing mode" or when something is detected or whatever. (won't lie, no idea how sonar works beyond echolocation)

The helos fire torpedoes right? 

So depth charges, what they still used for?  



 

[Wo1f]

This is a weirdly interesting thread..

[EvilMonkee]

8 hours ago, Vulpiness said:

Ah, sorry I took that figuratively as in "pinged". Although I'm sure they re-used the "ping" noise somewhere, shame if they didn't, perhaps on a "testing mode" or when something is detected or whatever. (won't lie, no idea how sonar works beyond echolocation)

The helos fire torpedoes right? 

So depth charges, what they still used for?  



 

 Depth charges aren't anymore, but I will defer to my Navy colleague on that one.

10 hours ago, Vulpiness said:

Try not to let the iranians down any of our drones, as the moron americans are happy to allow. XD 

Didn't you just say sonar no-longer works? Or does it not work for ships, and the helos have to be very far away from the ship to keep the sub out of range? 

A sub has very few weapons that threaten a helo, better get that sorted then. could you not put AA missles in a launchbay? (moving away from the current situation)  

So do ship have sonar just for torpedos or older subs, or what? 

 

That wasn't one of our drones, that was an American one and if they actually 'downed' it is debatable.  Either way the Yanks would never release that information.  

 

Also, we don't really call them drones.  Drones implies that noone is flying them and that they are automated killing machines.  The correct terminology is Remotely Piloted Aerial Systems.  All of the RPAS have a human being at the controls at all times.

 

Adding to jcheesewrights comments on the limitations of ASW surface ships and helicopters, this is why it was a complete disaster to cancel the Nimrod programme after the findings of the Hadden Cave commission as it left the UK without a dedicated Maritime patrol aircraft which could be used from land airfields to hunt for subs at greater ranges than that of ASW ships.  This is now being fixed with the procurement of the P8 Poseidon from the Americans.  Remains to be seen whether or not its a good platform, given its age.

[Rogerborg]

16 hours ago, Druid799 said:

Simple question for you , Why [does the game itself have to change, moving away from just hits being the be all and end all]?

 

Because you have to convince people that they have a problem before you can sell them your solution.

[Aengus]

19 hours ago, clumpyedge said:

I’m just amazed us systema users havnt been mentioned yet....

They're not new anymore. The sportsmanship patrol have finally recovered from the shock of a good gun 😉.

[Gepard]

On 25/02/2019 at 09:01, E21A said:

 

Just out of interest ( as you clearly know what you’re on about) how do you destroy a submarine these days? 

 

It's one guys job to sit outside and look for them with binoculars

[jcheeseright]

4 hours ago, Gepard said:

 

It's one guys job to sit outside and look for them with binoculars

This isn't even a joke, when doing anti submarine warfare there are genuinely guys on the upper deck with binoculars looking for periscopes.  

[Gepard]

6 minutes ago, jcheeseright said:

This isn't even a joke, when doing anti submarine warfare there are genuinely guys on the upper deck with binoculars looking for periscopes.  

 

Even when submerged! The only reason a submarine surfaces is for the lookout to catch his breath.

[Seth_Erebor]

On 09/03/2019 at 14:57, Gepard said:

 

Even when submerged! The only reason a submarine surfaces is for the lookout to catch his breath.

 

Upper deck of the ships

[Burny]

It's out

 

Holy Shiiiiip, 250 AEGs chucked in muddy puddles 😫

[Seth_Erebor]

15 minutes ago, Burny said:

It's out!

 

Holy Shiiiiip, 250 AEGs chucked in muddy puddles 😫

 

Not as good as I was hoping, but I'm not surprised in the short amount of time they took to organise it.

A lot of potential shown, it's a stepping stone for sure.

---

Is it just me seeing the break tags on the left of the page?

[Druid799]

Quite possibly the worst possible thing that could EVER happen to Airsoft in the uk , no thank you at all !  

[clumpyedge]

8 hours ago, Burny said:

It's out!

 

Holy Shiiiiip, 250 AEGs chucked in muddy puddles 😫

 

 

[Rogerborg]

11 hours ago, Druid799 said:

Quite possibly the worst possible thing that could EVER happen to Airsoft in the uk

 

People having fun?

 

The balloons are problematic though.  We don't want anyone thinking that you need to prove a hit.

[Druid799]

14 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

People having fun?

 

The balloons are problematic though.  We don't want anyone thinking that you need to prove a hit.

Don’t be a thick bottom good sir (tongue is in cheek 😉) not the fun bit nor the balloons , I think it’s funny as hell seeing guys going all ’tactical’ and they’ve got a couple of pink helium balloons floating over head ! 🤣 no I’m on about the money , I can just imagine the type of players it’ll attract AND the type of ‘business men’ as well if you had big money at stake in an Airsoft competition ?  

[Lozart]

20 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

People having fun?

 

The balloons are problematic though.  We don't want anyone thinking that you need to prove a hit.

 

The balloons are only there because it's a bunch of youtubers that have never played and they clearly want an obvious indicator that they've been hit.

 

Personally I see no issue with the whole thing at all. If it exposes airsoft to a wider audience then why not.

[Burny]

My prediction is no one will remember this video in a weeks time and we'll experience no measurable affect 

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, Druid799 said:

no I’m on about the money , I can just imagine the type of players it’ll attract AND the type of ‘business men’ as well if you had big money at stake in an Airsoft competition ?

 

Ah, fair point.

 

I don't really view it as airsoft though.  It's a very different game that happens to be using airsoft toys, like how you could use a cricket bat to play golf.