THE TM MWS thread

[JSwan]

15 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

 

The main thing you'll struggle with is finding a matching/close enough upper receiver complete with carry handle. If you can tick that box the rest should be relatively simple. Brownells do a Car stock which is manufacturer by B5 Systems (which means it's probably very good quality), may as well order the slim handguards from there while you're at it. Then it's just a question of how accurate you care to be with the gizmo's you attach to it.

Awesome thank you. I don’t care to be dead accurate with it.... I’m not that into recreations but a similar look would be good 👍🏻 BHD is one of my fav movies and thought it’d be cool to rock an old school version, bit of a change from all the keymod and MLok stuff people are using 

[alxndrhll]

6 minutes ago, JSwan said:

Awesome thank you. I don’t care to be dead accurate with it.... I’m not that into recreations but a similar look would be good 👍🏻 BHD is one of my fav movies and thought it’d be cool to rock an old school version, bit of a change from all the keymod and MLok stuff people are using 

 

Link to the stock here for your convenience. Worth noting there are replicas of the stocks available from various airsoft companies, for the generally not huge difference in price I'd likely be inclined to go for the one I've linked but just wanted to mention there are cheaper alternatives. And link to the slim grips here, again I imagine there are cheaper replicas available. I just happened to have the links buried in a folder somewhere from when I was toying with doing something similar, of which sourcing the upper receiver ended up being the deal breaker. I wish you luck if you hope to see it through .

Edited April 4, 2021 by alxndrhll

[JSwan]

10 hours ago, alxndrhll said:

 

Link to the stock here for your convenience. Worth noting there are replicas of the stocks available from various airsoft companies, for the generally not huge difference in price I'd likely be inclined to go for the one I've linked but just wanted to mention there are cheaper alternatives. And link to the slim grips here, again I imagine there are cheaper replicas available. I just happened to have the links buried in a folder somewhere from when I was toying with doing something similar, of which sourcing the upper receiver ended up being the deal breaker. I wish you luck if you hope to see it through

 

Thank you that’s really helpful! I’ll give it a go and see where I get 

[Wild Weasel]

 

Now them team mws,

I'm struggling a little bit with my cold weather operation, I know this has been covered before and I'm currently at page 57 rereading the entire thread, in the meantime can anybody give me some tips to get better cold-weather performance out of my mws?

 

My current setup is the following.

Hao Econoline geissele bolt

Ag MPA nozzle with Ra tech BLK npas

ML Mr hop 60° with six g nub

TM oem 250mm barrel

C&c maritime bolt catch

G&g V2 buffer (empty) with dollar coin and 23mm tap washer to shorten stroke (to prevent lower receiver strike from over-travel)

Hao 9.3" urgi handguard with BCM foregrip

Magpul CTR stock

Bcm gunfighter mod 3 pistol grip.

Vortex crossfire RDS.

Shooting Geoff's .3's bio bb's with rothenberger mapp+ gas.

 

Last shoot she was severely underpowered, barely able to cycle with an FPS of around 200fps on .2's - I've subsequently noticed that the buffer sealing ring made by angry gun was dragging a lot on the inside of the bolt carrier group as it  had swelled and become baggy I don't know if this was the cause what are your thoughts?

Cheers.

Second question of the day, I appear to have developed some scoring on the inside of my buffer tube since using the hao Econoline bolt carrier.

I'm thinking of replacing the buffer tube with the the G&P roller buffer tube set will this prevent the scoring and what are the improvements of the roller buffer tube please?

Cheers

[gunbod007]

On 04/04/2021 at 00:22, AlphaBear said:

@gunbod007 Dude! Are you sure your MWS was not made late on a Friday afternoon like 5.59pm coz last orders for shipping from the factory was 6pm?

 

Well the guy who put on the Angrygun L119 outer barrel and rail is blaming the fact I am mixing a TM hop with Angry gun outer. I. can't really see how it should affect it and he hasn't seen it since he put the barrel on and "Tested" It.

I think this one must be fucked now.

[Hypokondrikern]

@Wild Weasel Not to disappoint you but my consensus is to avoid all Angry Gun products as for now. There have just been so many problems reported in this thread over the years that some way or another cooked down to blaming a new Angry Gun part.

Anyway, lets see if we can get that rifle up and running. I'd carefully file and round the inner edges of the buffertube to pose less friction as the BCG moves through. That is what I have done. I also invested in the bcg roller end but that was mostly for the satisfying sound. 

Hope that helps. 

[Wild Weasel]

1 hour ago, Hypokondrikern said:

@Wild Weasel Not to disappoint you but my consensus is to avoid all Angry Gun products as for now. There have just been so many problems reported in this thread over the years that some way or another cooked down to blaming a new Angry Gun part.

Anyway, lets see if we can get that rifle up and running. I'd carefully file and round the inner edges of the buffertube to pose less friction as the BCG moves through. That is what I have done. I also invested in the bcg roller end but that was mostly for the satisfying sound. 

Hope that helps. 

It does, thank you but I've pre empted you a bit here - roller weight pt. no. Mws002  on order from Airsoft tiger, angry gun nozzle despite being rather nice polymer and having the guts replaced with npas etc - removed and replaced with a TM original nozzle, dp enhanced sealing buffer. Fitting a new npas on the way from emperion and to top it all off a new 60° Autobot hop rubber.

 

I just want to say, she didn't jack on me and fail, she was just struggling.

I'll look into filing the lip on the buffer tube but due to the scoring involved I think I'll just replace.

 

What can you tell me about the roller buffer as it looks a damn good idea. Does it take the pressure off of that wheel at the bottom of the bolt?

Cheers

[AlphaBear]

3 hours ago, gunbod007 said:

Well the guy who put on the Angrygun L119 outer barrel and rail is blaming the fact I am mixing a TM hop with Angry gun outer. I. can't really see how it should affect it and he hasn't seen it since he put the barrel on and "Tested" It.

I think this one must be fucked now.

Put it all back to stock parts and see how it functions. It takes a lot to fcuk up a MWS. It may transpire the AG outer barrel doesn’t marry up properly with the brass collar which in turn holds the hop against the receiver. This is why see what the Marui barrel does. 

6 hours ago, Wild Weasel said:

 

Now them team mws,

I'm struggling a little bit with my cold weather operation, I know this has been covered before and I'm currently at page 57 rereading the entire thread, in the meantime can anybody give me some tips to get better cold-weather performance out of my mws?

 

My current setup is the following.

Hao Econoline geissele bolt

Ag MPA nozzle with Ra tech BLK npas

ML Mr hop 60° with six g nub

TM oem 250mm barrel

C&c maritime bolt catch

G&g V2 buffer (empty) with dollar coin and 23mm tap washer to shorten stroke (to prevent lower receiver strike from over-travel)

Hao 9.3" urgi handguard with BCM foregrip

Magpul CTR stock

Bcm gunfighter mod 3 pistol grip.

Vortex crossfire RDS.

Shooting Geoff's .3's bio bb's with rothenberger mapp+ gas.

 

Last shoot she was severely underpowered, barely able to cycle with an FPS of around 200fps on .2's - I've subsequently noticed that the buffer sealing ring made by angry gun was dragging a lot on the inside of the bolt carrier group as it  had swelled and become baggy I don't know if this was the cause what are your thoughts?

Cheers.

Second question of the day, I appear to have developed some scoring on the inside of my buffer tube since using the hao Econoline bolt carrier.

I'm thinking of replacing the buffer tube with the the G&P roller buffer tube set will this prevent the scoring and what are the improvements of the roller buffer tube please?

Cheers

I can’t believe that scoring in the inside of the buffer tube. Surely that implies there is an issue with the HAO bolt’s tolerances with the Marui buffer tube. That’s definitely gonna bugger up the efficiency of the MWS. I’m quite shocked to see that truth be told. 

[Wild Weasel]

9 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

Put it all back to stock parts and see how it functions. It takes a lot to fcuk up a MWS. It may transpire the AG outer barrel doesn’t marry up properly with the brass collar which in turn holds the hop against the receiver. This is why see what the Marui barrel does. 

I can’t believe that scoring in the inside of the buffer tube. Surely that implies there is an issue with the HAO bolt’s tolerances with the Marui buffer tube. That’s definitely gonna bugger up the efficiency of the MWS. I’m quite shocked to see that truth be told. 

Just checked with calipers and it is within .5 mm so I may have to go to a new buffer tube.

[Davegolf]

Regardless of the temperature for efficiency and consistency you want to be using the smallest amount of gas possible to propel the BB at your desired FPS and reliably cycle the system ready for the next shot.

 

What does this come down to?

Air seals, Friction and Weight of dynamic parts, Work effort and Stability of materials in different temperatures.

 

Air seals;

Gas tight mag obv.

Healthy gas route seal in mag.

Mating fully with nozzle entry.

Nozzle fully sealed in bucking.

Air tight bucking.

Floating valve closing fast and sealing.

Piston lid seal that reacts fast, but doesn’t drag.

BCG turning off the gas knocker, properly in time - not too early or late.

 

Friction - freely moving, minimal contact, not side loading;

Floating valve.

Nozzle.

Bolt.

Buffer.

Buffer spring.

 

Weight of dynamic parts;

Lightest nozzle, bolt, buffer.

 

Work effort;

A bucking that is too tight will hold the nozzle firmly requiring more effort to pull it out.

A nozzle that isn’t free in the bolt or BBU will do the same.

A piston lid seal that is too big or binding will also increase effort.

A bolt that is poorly made will side load the receiver or buffer tube @Wild Weasel.

Increased weight of dynamic parts.

Stronger buffer springs.

 

Materials like nylon etc have massive dimensional changes for small temperature changes, materials like these are best avoided.

 

As a general rule all parts ‘flowing’ gas should be of high quality plastics to maintain the intended dimensions and best resist the effects of icing.

 

Pretty much everything above could be broken down further.

 

The short fix is the stock TM design is very good.

Non of the buffer parts need to be ‘upgraded’, the buffer is very light in TM plastic, and the spring is suitable for all UK assault FPS (300-350).

Yes fit a lightweight CNC bolt, the UAC ones are a nice fit.

The stock nozzle and piston lid seal are fine, as is the stock bucking (within reason).

Yes fit an NPAS or similar, plastic please, mod the TM one ideally.

PS sorry you didn’t get around to actually doing your testing!

[GothicGhost]

Other than extra magazines what essentials should you buy for a new MWS user such as parts, tools and accessories.

 

Adding up costs so I know what I need to save

Thank you.

[Davegolf]

Genuine armourer wrench, not some cheesium one.

 

Spare nozzle

Spare nozzle return springs

TechT GunSav

Parker gun oil

Mini screwdriver and pick set

Long Allen keys upto 5mm

(non of that ball hex crap )

Edited April 5, 2021 by Davegolf

[Hypokondrikern]

@Wild Weasel It's really hard to give a true verdict with the lockdown and all as I have only shot it a few times in my studio to test a mag. But the sheer manipulation of the rifle, charging and clearing it is much more responsive. The brass rollers are a bit worrisome to me. Only time will tell if they are made of a good metal or not. Anyway, the best thing is the sound especially with the UAC or Gunsmodify alu BCG and the rounded buffertube edge. Crisp!

 

11 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Genuine armourer wrench, not some cheesium one.

 

Spare nozzle

Spare nozzle return springs

TechT GunSav

Parker gun oil

Mini screwdriver and pick set

Long Allen keys upto 5mm

(non of that ball hex crap )

Ah, I watched some videos on HPA rifles yesterday, a brief detour from MWS territory and stumbled upon the TechT Gunsav. Dave, can you brief me on where this is to be used? Could I lube mags with them? I have recently used silicon grease with good results but I have heard that residues can make it to the hop whereas the Gunsav supposedly stays put. 

P.S I guess that the parker gun oil is for the trigger unit?

Edited April 5, 2021 by Hypokondrikern

[Davegolf]

Yes TechT on all your magazine O rings, and the piston lid seal.

Gun oil on trigger set, and BCG to receiver

PS you can generally wipe down the externals and clean all non rubber/silicone parts with the gun oil too.

It serves as a cleaning agent, anti corrosion and lube all in one.

[Hypokondrikern]

Thanks, I have so far only used silicon oil of different densities with good result. Grease for leaks, thick oil for trigger unit and spray for bcg + o-rings. I remember using lithium grease for the trigger mechanism in a KC02 several years back but I got allergic reactions from it. I'll try the TechT and the gun oil and see how that is. Maybe some disposable gloves as well...

[Wild Weasel]

3 hours ago, Davegolf said:

Regardless of the temperature for efficiency and consistency you want to be using the smallest amount of gas possible to propel the BB at your desired FPS and reliably cycle the system ready for the next shot.

 

What does this come down to?

Air seals, Friction and Weight of dynamic parts, Work effort and Stability of materials in different temperatures.

 

Air seals;

Gas tight mag obv.

Healthy gas route seal in mag.

Mating fully with nozzle entry.

Nozzle fully sealed in bucking.

Air tight bucking.

Floating valve closing fast and sealing.

Piston lid seal that reacts fast, but doesn’t drag.

BCG turning off the gas knocker, properly in time - not too early or late.

 

Friction - freely moving, minimal contact, not side loading;

Floating valve.

Nozzle.

Bolt.

Buffer.

Buffer spring.

 

Weight of dynamic parts;

Lightest nozzle, bolt, buffer.

 

Work effort;

A bucking that is too tight will hold the nozzle firmly requiring more effort to pull it out.

A nozzle that isn’t free in the bolt or BBU will do the same.

A piston lid seal that is too big or binding will also increase effort.

A bolt that is poorly made will side load the receiver or buffer tube @Wild Weasel.

Increased weight of dynamic parts.

Stronger buffer springs.

 

Materials like nylon etc have massive dimensional changes for small temperature changes, materials like these are best avoided.

 

As a general rule all parts ‘flowing’ gas should be of high quality plastics to maintain the intended dimensions and best resist the effects of icing.

 

Pretty much everything above could be broken down further.

 

The short fix is the stock TM design is very good.

Non of the buffer parts need to be ‘upgraded’, the buffer is very light in TM plastic, and the spring is suitable for all UK assault FPS (300-350).

Yes fit a lightweight CNC bolt, the UAC ones are a nice fit.

The stock nozzle and piston lid seal are fine, as is the stock bucking (within reason).

Yes fit an NPAS or similar, plastic please, mod the TM one ideally.

PS sorry you didn’t get around to actually doing your testing!

Fantastic answer, thanks - I've got some work to do.

 

The reason I went for the G&p buffer is the top screws of the BCG were smashing into the buffer threads on the lower receiver so I was advised to pack it out with a dollar coin and a 23mm tap washer to prevent over-travel and the buffer to prevent bolt bounce.

With regards to the hao bolt I'm shelving it as an emergency spare as I did not get these problems with the TM BCG. I think I will give the roller bolt weight a go as it hopefully will smooth out the cyclic action.

Once again I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers for the answers everyone.

[gunbod007]

19 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

It may transpire the AG outer barrel doesn’t marry up properly with the brass collar which in turn holds the hop against the receiver

Do you think try it without the brass spacer then?

Basically I don't have the tools to do any of this and there's a guy pretty well known in the L119 groups doing it for me. So each time I have to go to him and pay to correct. Not going to be able to try out the TM parts straight away.

[quango2k]

Hi all, 

 

I have just put on a 14.5in outer barrel and want to get an inner to match. Any recommendations? and will it lower the power a bit putting a longer inner barrel in? as I am pushing it with the power even with an npas. 

[AlphaBear]

35 minutes ago, gunbod007 said:

Do you think try it without the brass spacer then?

Basically I don't have the tools to do any of this and there's a guy pretty well known in the L119 groups doing it for me. So each time I have to go to him and pay to correct. Not going to be able to try out the TM parts straight away.

No no no, that brass collar is integral to the design...

 

Look, personally you should let a 'professional' dealer sort out the MWS. Whatever has gone wrong to it can be fixed... I'd just send it to Eagle 6 and ask them nicely to help...  Just send them all the bits you want adding to it and be done with it.... Call Richard and speak to him.

[occidio]

On 05/04/2021 at 13:22, Wild Weasel said:

 

Now them team mws,

I'm struggling a little bit with my cold weather operation, I know this has been covered before and I'm currently at page 57 rereading the entire thread, in the meantime can anybody give me some tips to get better cold-weather performance out of my mws?

 

 

 

 

The easy solution, use stronger gas. If it is below 10 degrees I use red gas and it drops a little more then I switch to black gas and I have had no problems with it, Black gas at 5 degrees does not feel stronger than GG in the summer. AG I also use their nozzel and I am VERY satisfied have had no problems with it and it is super easy to adjust and keeps adjustment perfectly however it is a V2

On 02/04/2021 at 09:59, TadsJ2 said:

Okay, I get the theory behind  TM valves, but it literally vents liquid green gas all around when i am trying to fill it with WE 2x or SMART GAS gg  and it is definitely not even close to being full then... With all stock and silent fill mod i also get to shoot ~85 shots which is 2,5 magazine, so you are suggesting me not to modify anything and spit liquid green gas? I've read here in this thread that someone changed the inlet valves to Laylax inlet valves and it solved their similar problems... Could you tell me what manufacturer's green gas are u using to fill your MWS mags and maybe someone could make a video how does the refill look like , maybe its the same for me as for you and I am searching for problems which isnt really the problem

Also how does one take the o-ring off when its already applied?

 

I completely agree. I have also had brands that worked fairly well but it is far from all brands of GG. I ALWAYS weigh my magazines, to know how much gas is in them and I can not get more gas in them by not using 0-rings. And with o rings I have significantly less gas loss = more mags can be filled per bottle.
i use the ML "square" o rings 

 

[GothicGhost]

22 hours ago, Davegolf said:

Genuine armourer wrench, not some cheesium one.

 

Spare nozzle

Spare nozzle return springs

TechT GunSav

Parker gun oil

Mini screwdriver and pick set

Long Allen keys upto 5mm

(non of that ball hex crap )

Thank you very much.

[ReformedNiceGuy]

On 03/04/2021 at 20:14, gunbod007 said:

Didn't see this one coming. 

Hop seems to be broken. Seems like it is stuck in place. Even if it is fully on or fully off it is making no difference to .28s. Going to test with .2 soon. But also no visible change at all when inspecting.

 

I am about to order the Super Six nub so hopefully that will solve it but I can't see how this is even happening.

Late to this one but I made a mistake reassembling once and put the hop arm inside the upper above the arm that extends from the hop unit rather than underneath it which led to this exact problem, worth double checking you've not made the same mistake dude.

[gunbod007]

29 minutes ago, ReformedNiceGuy said:

Late to this one but I made a mistake reassembling once and put the hop arm inside the upper above the arm that extends from the hop unit rather than underneath it which led to this exact problem, worth double checking you've not made the same mistake dude.

That is something I will ask him to check.

I don't have to tools to get it apart but thanks a lot!

[SeanW]

On 02/04/2021 at 08:59, TadsJ2 said:

Okay, I get the theory behind  TM valves, but it literally vents liquid green gas all around when i am trying to fill it with WE 2x or SMART GAS gg  and it is definitely not even close to being full then... With all stock and silent fill mod i also get to shoot ~85 shots which is 2,5 magazine, so you are suggesting me not to modify anything and spit liquid green gas? I've read here in this thread that someone changed the inlet valves to Laylax inlet valves and it solved their similar problems... Could you tell me what manufacturer's green gas are u using to fill your MWS mags and maybe someone could make a video how does the refill look like , maybe its the same for me as for you and I am searching for problems which isnt really the problem

Also how does one take the o-ring off when its already applied?

 

@TadsJ2 I am currently using abbey predator/vertex for colder days and have used propane but runs too hot.  The valve is recessed quite deep in the mag, is the gas nozzle all the way in when you are filling, the abbey nozzles fit nicely.  In order to fully fill a magazine, you should be getting nothing spitting out until the last couple of bursts.  Once you get a little liquid coming out, stop.  Leave it for 10 seconds or so, then give it one last fill.  From that you should get 2 full mags plus another 20+ shots.  Angle is everything when engaging the gas can nozzle with the mag.  It is not vertical but about 20 degrees to the base plate angled towards the front of the mag.  If you fill vertically it will spray liquid everywhere.

I have some we x3 red and the metal nozzle of the can doesn’t seat as well with the mag, you have to give it a wiggle  in angle until it seats and then it works without spitting gas everywhere.  Abbey’s nozzles are narrower internally and externally.

 

As for taking the o rings out, never done it so wouldn’t like to comment.

 

@Davegolf Yes I meant no o-rings or green gas mod as all my mags are v2.

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by SeanW

[Groot]

Black Urgi build complete bar the magpul stock which may arrive from China in my lifetime