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Wo1f

THE TM MWS thread

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As a lot of threads end up with one of us recommending the Tokyo Marui MWS, and i get PM's asking about it, i figured I'd start a thread to keep all of the information in one place. Here i plan on covering a general overview of the gun, as well as upgrade parts, general maintenance and tuning. If anyone else wants to share any information, guides or even gameplay with their MWS, here is the place to do it. With that being said, lets get on with it.

 

I've had my 2  Tm m4 GBBR's for a little over a year now, and they've got through dozens of changes to get them where they are today. Out of the box they are beautifully finished and boast impressive performance. I bought my first one from Zeroone, who price matched it for me. At the time the gun set me back £430 and the magazines £35, but they have risen quite a bit in price in most places. 

IMG_3927_zpsz7rxeiyo.jpg

The gun is incredibly well finished and sports a Cerakoted receiver. Before opening the box, i didn't get what the big deal was about Cerakote, but that all changed after using it over time. The finish is VERY resistant to the hard life I've shown it, and is far more scratch resistant than any paint or anodization on any other gun I've owned. The two I have still don't have a scratch on them. At the rear is a standard m4 stock, which does its job with little wobble, but isn't the nicest one I've ever seen. The railed handguard is very solid and nicely finished with all of the correct numbered markings on the rails. From there you have your usual front triangle iron sight which DOES NOT have a sling attachment at the base.

 

IMG_3987_zpso2htzhee.jpg

The magazines hold 35 BB's and have a Cerakoted shell to keep them from scratching easily. They have very recently started coming with silent fill valves, but are mostly the normal kind that hiss when filling and spray liquid propane when full. Its worth noting that the valve sits at an angle to the baseplate. One modification i would highly recommend to do is the "green gas mod" which involves removing a long zinc tube from inside the magazine. This allows more gas into the magazine and upping your shots per gas fill dramatically, with some people reporting 150+ shots from a single gas charge. As a side note, i have started to just cut the zinc tube about 1 inch from the base instead of removing it entirely. A video showing how to do it: 

 

Chronograph Results:

using blaster .20 BB's and green gas i got around 298 fps with a deviation of 2FPS. yes, you heard that right, " FPS. This thing is incredibly consistent!

 

Important information:

The inner barrel is 250mm on the 10.5 " CQBR and the 14.5" carbine, meaning on the 14.5" outer you can fit a much longer 370mm inner barrel. The Hop up adjustment dial is similar to Tm pistols and can be located inside the upper receiver by locking the bolt back and looking down the magwell. Due to the way the outer barrel is cut, it's not possible to fit an aftermarket rail onto the gun without one of two things. A barrel adapter ring (PTS, ORGA and a couple of others make them and usually cost £10) or A dytac outer barrel, which has a wider lip, as shown below. Dytac on the left

IMG_3968_zps1x4y8tv5.jpg

 

First shots:

I took it down to the 20m range at the First and only shop and loaded it up with .28 blaster devils. They had multiple targets there, but i focused on the little spinning targets at the back wall. The orange discs must have been no more than 1.5 inches in diameter and i was hitting it virtually every time with the iron sights. So far, very impressed with the accuracy. So much so, I treated it to a new dress!

IMG_E0479_zps8run8vz5.jpg

 

First internal upgrades:

After speaking with Dave about the gun, he explained that the gun wouldnt hop really heavy weight BB's with the standard nub. because it was hollow and squished when applying hop pressure. To remedy this he machined me a great little nub out of brass. Isn't it beautiful!?

IMG_2737_zps3vxhrk4r.jpg

This meant i could now lift much heavier BB's increasing my range and accuracy even further than the already impressive stock performance. Using this new nub and GEOFF .32 bb''s i was able to get the bb's out 60+M with a flat trajectory. They were making a 1.5-2ft grouping on the plastic bales as seen in the video below.

 

I have SOOO much move to cover, including barrel reviews, customs mods and a DMR build, but its 5;30 am and i need to be up in an hour, so we'll continue this tomorrow

 

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Awesome stuff. 

 

TM MWS ftw. 

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Cracking stuff - I'll be watching this closely! And probably maxing out my CC :lol:

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And on a side note, I love how in the Badabing video he shows you how to dismantle the mag - but doesn't mention (or show) what an utter b**tard it is to get the flipping spring back in!
When I was doing one, there should have been the Benny Hill theme tune going on in the background.

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1 hour ago, sonofsammo said:

And on a side note, I love how in the Badabing video he shows you how to dismantle the mag - but doesn't mention (or show) what an utter b**tard it is to get the flipping spring back in!
When I was doing one, there should have been the Benny Hill theme tune going on in the background.

I know, right?! The tubes didn’t want to come out for me either!

 

got some stuff to put up today, including a range finder confirmed 81M shot. 

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Where can one source a copper hop number Sir?! 

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9 hours ago, Dentonboy said:

Where can one source a copper hop number Sir?! 

you mean the brass nub? you ask Dave very nicely if he'll machine you one. £/performance its one of the best mods ive made.  either message him on here, or via https://sixgunsmithing.wordpress.com/2018/03/11/sixg-super-nub-for-marui-gbbr/

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Internal modifications:

To start off with i bought myself a PDI raven 250mm 6.01 tightbore barrel, an ORGA 370mm 6.05 barrel, NPAS valve, UAC sealing piston buffer and a maple leaf bucking. I also bought a maple leaf 370mm tight bore, labelled as "for MWS" but it didn't fit, and i'll show you why in a minute.

IMG_3900_zpsukljesao.jpg

 

The Pdi raven barrel is the same length as the standard 250mm inner barrel, but its tighter bore gives around a 35-40 fps increase. the bore is nice and smooth, but the one thing I'm unsure about it the style of cut they put into the hop. it seems to work fine, but the hop window isn't as large as the standard. Depending on the gas you use and the temperature, its possible to go over the 350 fps limit with his barrel, depending on how the hop is set. 

RAVEN-639356-2L_zpssrcdwyed.jpg

 

The ORGA barrel is brass and is cut like the original hop window. It has a very nice crown and the internal finish is very nice. This barrel went into the DMR MWS i had, before replacing it with a 410MM (Exactly the same barrel, but longer.) Ive found this barrel to be nice and accurate, but the standard barrel is nice enough. Performance increase is there, but its not a drastic change. Due to the length of 370mm this WILL NOT FIT the CQBR. Below is a maple leaf and an ORGA barrel. They look VERY similar, but the alignment cuts are about .5mm off spec. You can force the hop chamber closed, but this has the potential to create inconsistencies so personally I'd avoid.

IMG_3989_zpsmskbcbu5.jpg

 

The UAC sealing buffer offers no noticeable fps or consistency increase. Good to have as a spare though.

 

The NPAS was fitted to my DMR and is probably the best NPAS I've come across. It seems to hold its adjustment well, probably due to the fact it is quite stiff to turn. I imagine it has a o ring or some form of nylock on the threads at a guess. It suits my purposes, but if you're running a standard <350 fps gun id say it was not needed.

 

I'm going to go into Hop rubbers later tonight, as I've tried one hell of a lot so it deserves it's own part. For now, have a look at my MWS in it's latest dress. Old school and heavy!

 

4874E7B4-8CFE-44C4-9CE4-D337C123DA2F_zps

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46 minutes ago, Wo1f said:

you mean the brass nub? you ask Dave very nicely if he'll machine you one. £/performance its one of the best mods ive made.  either message him on here, or via https://sixgunsmithing.wordpress.com/

 

Thanks, I don't know who Dave is on here Chief. 

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50 minutes ago, Dentonboy said:

 

Thanks, I don't know who Dave is on here Chief. 

@Davegolf

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Ahhhh, super. Ta

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@Wo1f - Can you use just the nub on its own? If so, what weight BBs can you use before you need to start altering other things?

Which speedfills do you use? I'm still using the tube that came with it - and it's painfully slow!

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40 minutes ago, sonofsammo said:

@Wo1f - Can you use just the nub on its own? If so, what weight BBs can you use before you need to start altering other things?

Which speedfills do you use? I'm still using the tube that came with it - and it's painfully slow!

Yes, it works very well with the stock hop up rubber. Standard I’ve found .28 to be about max. Maybe .3.. with the brass nub you can easily lift .4’s if you like. I found .32 Geoff’s worked well for a 350 FPS gun. 

 

Standard 90rd pistol style loafers with the adapter. MWS mags are quite stiff to load

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Moved to Advice & Technical Help section, a more appropriate location for all the useful information.

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HOP UP BUCKINGS:

Let me start by saying that the standard hop up rubbers are more than adequate for virtually all uses. One of the reasons i think they work so well is because they are soft. In general, the lower the FPS, the softer the bucking, and these guns are designed to run on duster gas at 280 FPS. I've found gas guns like softer rubbers because of the cold temperatures they run at, which is why i think the standard one works so well. The advantage of Gas guns over AEG's is that they can throw heavyweight BB's more effectively. This with a combination of a good and stable hop up means your able to fire a 'round' that retains its energy for longer and is less effected by wind. This is where your range and accuracy comes from. 

 

Cheapest upgrade:

This one is potentially free. The stock hop up nub is a hollow rubber cylinder. The problem with that is its soft, so a lot of the hop range is taken up by the nub compressing. That means you're only going to be able to lift a .28 or .3 at a push. Putting a pin or something solid through the hole allows for more hop range, meaning you can lift a heavier BB. 

 

Replacement Nub:

Next option is a replacement nub. Something solid is what you're looking for. if there's no flex or squishiness in the nub then your consistency will improve slightly. I opted for the brass super nub that's pictured above and it's served me very well. According to google maps, the distance in the video above is 60.4m. With an otherwise stock gun, i was hitting my target with ease using .32BB's. The range could have been extended further, but i opted for the straightest flight path over the extended range a little more hop would have supplied because i was forced to use iron sights. You can buy the brass nub here: https://sixgunsmithing.wordpress.com/2018/03/11/sixg-super-nub-for-marui-gbbr/

 

Replacement bucking:

Now this is where things get interesting... At first, i tried a 70D maple leaf delta bucking in combination with the brass nub (the brass nub is concave, so it works with maple leaf's design) but it offered no noticeable performance gain. I imagine this was down to the hardness. Following that, you have 4 popular options, which are these:

IMG_3887_zpspkcxexxf.jpg

The green UAC is a direct clone of the Marui from what i can tell, but is offered in multiple, colour coded hardness options. It works well and i would consider this a replacement part if you wear out your stock rubber. The maple leaf autobot and decepticon buckings are very good. They've served me well in many WE GBBR's as well as a Tm MK23. it's the current set up in my DMR. These need to be used with some form of concave nub or key. I've also had good luck with PDI's W hold bucking, but its important to mention that it's quite thick and i needed to sand down some of the outside of the rubber to make it fit. Once in, it worked like a charm. I'm currently testing TNT's T-Hop bucking in my CASV. its a similar concave design to the maple leaf. I'll report back with my findings.

 

Custom Hop:

Everyone can say their gun shoots for miles, and for the most part it's just bullshit, so before we begin, a picture speaks a thousand words.

339E572B-2737-49C3-B667-A65061E214FA_zps

The set up is as follows:

NPAS

410mm ORGA 6.05 

Maple leaf decepticon 60D bucking

Maple leaf I key

modified hop chamber.

400 fps on .2 using ASG Ai .36 BB's

IMG_0782_zps9decj8g1.jpg

In order to do this, you need to open up the hop window with a file or dremel. You'll understand why when you try to place an I key in the hole as it's too long. you just need to elongate the hole the nub sits in by maybe 2mm.

BAD2D2B7-9353-49BA-A81B-42654266F4D6_zps

 

 

 

 

 

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All great stuff, many thanks. 

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In terms of maintenance, what should I be doing to mine? 
Because I have no idea where to start! TIA.

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46 minutes ago, sonofsammo said:

In terms of maintenance, what should I be doing to mine? 
Because I have no idea where to start! TIA.

I’ll do a write up on maintenance with pics when I get in if I get chance. 

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9 hours ago, Wo1f said:

I’ll do a write up on maintenance with pics when I get in if I get chance. 

That would be beyond awesome if you could! :D

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Is it bad that I *love* my MWS?! 

 

I was getting so bored of sewing machine sounding AEGs which pretty much performed like every other one before it or after. 

 

TM's MWS made it fun again. It made every 'kill' a challenge, every shot a smidgen of adrenaline and put in a degree of unpredictability. 

 

And, because it was from those great bunch of lads in Japan, it was all put together beautifully. 

 

Without that MWS purchase, I genuinely could have seen me falling out of love with this hobby and I am glad I took the leap. 

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They are great pieces of kit, i think it will be a long time untill something better is produced.

I dont want to, or mean to start any off topic convo on Wo1f's nice thread but i would love TM to make a HPA variant of these, properly, not tapped mags.

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I love mine too. It’s very satisfying to get a kill with such limited capacity, and nothing is better than engaging targets at range knowing they cannot hit you back lol. 

 

This thread is for all things mws, so post anything you like. Get pictures of your pride and joy up, tell us about what mods you like or didn’t or any other cool stuff. Even news on the mws type 89. If it takes an mws mag, I wanna hear about it! 

 

Gonna upload the pictures when I get in and do a maintenance write up. 

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Posted (edited)

I broke mine already :angry:
Have added a new sling plate, but now can't get upper and lower receiver to join again - any help would be much appreciated!

Pics click HERE

fixed it - hurrah! Needed to unscrew the buffer tube one rotation
 

Edited by sonofsammo

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Maintenance:

Now before i get into what i do, id like to point out that how i do it and what i use are not the only way of doing things. People use all sorts of different oils, grease and sprays to get the job done. As long as it's suitable for the job, all is well.

 

Items:

Wurth High performance dry chain lube (Teflon/ptfe spray)

Wurth brake and chain cleaner

Airsoft Engenuity cleaning rod

Silicone oil

paper towels

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Step 1:

Remove the magazine and split the upper and lower by popping out the body pins. From there, remove the charging handle and bolt carrier group.

50629154-B0E4-419F-89B0-591342E31A21_zps

 

Using the paper towel, wipe them down properly, including the channel on the underside of the charging handle. This is what mine looks like after one game day and a bit of testing.

A1030120-6ADA-4FC6-A77F-EE3BB3024D88_zps

 

Step 2:

With the moving parts cleaned, we need to move onto the upper receiver. There is no point cleaning the moving parts if the walls they're sliding against are still dirty, so wipe down the inner walls of the upper receiver as well as the grove that the charging handle runs in.

AE383B21-5E0E-4B37-A5AE-CB36EB7DF65B_zps

 

Step 3:

We're going to finish off the cleaning of the upper by cleaning the barrel. I use an Airsoft Engenuity Optirod because it holds cue tips at a slight angle instead of cutting little strips of tissue, but any will work just fine.

8D15AD87-590C-45D4-B4C7-5C10613A128C_zps

I go in from the muzzle end and stop before the hop up so i don't disturb it or damage it in any way. Because i use propane, i don't get silicone oil or other crap all over the hop rubber. If you do, take a cue tip and gently push it inside and twist. you don't want to apply any sort of pressure because you're at risk of rotating the rubber ever so slightly or damaging it. 

D0E6BB6C-0825-4E47-99C6-781786841450_zps

 

Step 4:

Moving on to the lower.. I have two processes that i do to the lower. One after every game, and one after every 5. The only difference is on the 5th clean i spray out the lower with brake/chain/carb cleaner. Because of how tight everything is packed in to the MWS trigger box its hard to completely clean it without removing it from the lower. with carb cleaner it will blast out all of the deposits and degrease the trigger mech completely. what will happen is the spray will run into the gaps and drip out of the trigger hole in the bottom of the lower. The spray evaporates in the air, so after about 30 seconds it will be bone dry, leaving behind a clear trigger box. For the daily clean, i just wipe down all visible surfaces with a cloth/ paper towel. In order to keep a reliable bolt lock, push the bolt release and clean the faces of the ZET plate when it lifts up. if you get crap between there, it can slow and not lock back reliably. Especially running green gas, which cycles the gun faster.

6C43EF50-2F03-419A-8EFD-8AA84B14E65C_zps

 

Step 5:

Everything is now clean, so we can start with the lube. There's lots of options out there but one thing that's important is this... SILICONE OIL IS NOT FOR METAL ON METAL PARTS. over time, silicone oil will make metal bind and is the exact opposite of what we want to do. Silicone oil is important, but only for sealing components. I use Wurth dry chain spray for 2 reasons. If it can lubricate and stand up to the temperatures of chain/sprocket contact on a 200mph motorbike, it will do just fine on our bolt moving 8" forward and back. The other reason is it isn't messy. it dries in the air and leaves a light film on the surface so it isn't going to get thrown around the inside of the gun. so give it a good spray and give it a few seconds to dry.

 

Step 6:

Back to the lower.. If you're using a spray like me, put your finger over the hop up entrance in the lower receiver and give the inside a quick spray with the lube. YOU DO NOT WANT ANY LUBE OR ANYTHING ELSE ON THE HOP RUBBER. If you're using a grease or oil, this is less of an issue (until you fire the gun and it throws it all in there anyway)

 

Step 7:

Spray your BCG and charging handle with lube. Pretty self explanatory so i didn't bother with a picture. What i do is hold the bolt by the nozzle with my thumb covering the underside of the nozzle. this stops any lube going into the nozzle chamber.

 

Step 8:

Last thing to do is lubricate the sealing parts with silicone oil. This step is only really needed if you use propane, as green gas should keep the sealing cup on the nozzle adequately lubed and i do this every 5 games.  Pull the nozzle out and place a couple of drops of silicone oil between the nozzle and the BCG. On WE guns you can pull the nozzle out far enough to apple lube directly to the o ring, but you cant on an MWS without removing the nozzle, so this is as good as you can get. Like i said though, if you're using green gas, this shouldn't need to be done often.

9CD73932-BF67-457B-A79E-F086C313AF0A_zps

 

Step 9:

Put it all back together because you're done!

 

 

 

 

 

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#Love

IMG_20180316_195320_062.jpg

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