THE TM MWS thread

[KoheiN]

For those having issues getting their long contact patch type bucking (TNT or ML), flat or concave nubs (Prommy, ML Omega, etc) seated proper in certain barrels, consider the following. 

 

From my experience, [pictured above] TNT and ML barrel have a longer hop opening or window. Allowing for the use of many of the longer type nubs available. Also note TNT is bridged at the rear. 

 

However, [pictured below] TM, ORGA, Prommy, etc mimic the stock size normal window size. PDI uses an even smaller hop window. Thus, flat and concave nubs have to be cut to fit. With less contact patch affect.

Although some say smaller windows have better seal, better efficiency, but let's keep this on compatibility issues cause we all want to blast 46g out as far as possible. 

 

So the consideration of barrel + nub + bucking combo is critical and also if your barrel is the stock type window, is the small gain in contact a benefit to you. As someone already pointed out the cylindrical type nubs are good up to and sometimes beyond 32/36g bbs, and have less margin of error when installing and performing, as well very consistent shot to shot (more on this later). 

 

Also in the mix, keep in mind your barrel length and bore diameter, as it plays a role in fps and a factor in the resulting range. 

 

Photo 1: TM barrel with ML Omega nub, although it looks as if it will fit, there is not enough space left for the bucking between the barrel window and nub. 

Photo 2, TM barrel + ML Omega, picture does not show well, once the bucking is installed front of the nub gets hung up on the barrel and will become slanted. 

 

Always try your new barrel + nub + bucking before installing into the upper as this will be hard to catch afterwards. 

 

Photo 3: TM barrel with ML Omega cut to size 

Photo 4: test, stays flat with consistent pressure 

 

I will say this is enough to lift and over hop 46g easy and due to the longer contact patch it starts to become difficult to control and maintain consistency of lighter 25g/20g bb weights.

 

Photo 5: TNT barrel with uncut ML Omega, combo will also work with ML barrels.

 

As well due to the longer contact patch each turn on the hop dial adds much more pressure and fine tuning can be difficult. Some players and myself included, experienced on a certain setting being abit low while the next setting being abit high and hoping there was half turn option on the MWS hop dial.

This can be overcome by switching with the next bb weight higher or lower, resulting in many different weight bbs in your bag. As well due to GBBR temperature temperaments, you may be required to change bb weight with a drastic weather change or readjusting hop setting. 

Also lower weights of around 25g become increasingly harder to use and the jump in increase per turn of the hop dial can be felt much more. 

 

I like to put Teflon tape around the hop arm to minimize later movement. 

 

Photo 6: TNT barrel + ML Omega + Laylax hop unit. Much more of a TDC affect as, hard to see in [photo 5] but due to the swing of the TM hop arm the placement of of the nub is alittle rear ward on the bucking. 

 

Photo 7: TNT barrel + max size Prommy Nub, this will not work as the TNT barrel has a bridge at the rear. 

 

Photo 8: ML barrel + max size Prommy Nub, this will work. However may be redundant as the BB sits somewhere underneath the middle, just a little behind the middle of the nub. The excessive long patch to the rear is likely a waste. You'll want to focus on a longer patch in front of the bbs path. 

 

Photo 8: quick shot of nub types and what should be compatible. ML I key requires modding to fit. 

Photo 9: other options to consider 

 

I have not mentioned the differences in nub shapes and bucking shapes. As that's up to the user, the above is just want I found to work or not work. To hopefully give you some good ideas or save you some time and to also consider some of the side affects for certain modifications. 

 

 

These would be primarily drop in/bolt on parts options asides from more custom rhops, etc. 

 

As well TM vsr barrel have a different notch from TM GBB barrels. But GBB and vsr buckings are cross compatible. 

[PewPewLoki]

3 hours ago, KoheiN said:

[Everything KoheiN said]

 

 

+1 for TNT. Contacted them as they don't do barrel lengths shorter than 320mm and they sent me out a 250mm S+ barrel same day.

[Cipher-032]

Really well explained. You can also see in the pictures the different cuts on the barrel windows as well. 

 

@[Rogues]Loki let us know how you get on with the S+ barrel. Bit of a interesting set up. 

[PewPewLoki]

2 minutes ago, Cipher-032 said:

@[Rogues]Loki let us know how you get on with the S+ barrel. Bit of a interesting set up. 

 

Will do. The theory is good - have the BB sat a touch further back and raised up to the middle of the barrel to try and take some of the variance out of the 'starting position'. Be interesting to see how this works in practice. I was hoping to couple it with a Laylax/First Factory chamber too, but it looks like they're out of stock everywhere and I may have to wait until the next batch roll out of Japan.

 

I'm not playing again until mid-April now, but I'll try and put some time aside to take it to a safe place to set hop and range it and report my findings.

[Wo1f]

Fantastic post @KoheiN  

 

that would explain why the long contact patches hitting the orga barrel I had. 

 

 

[sonofsammo]

On 07/03/2019 at 10:37, Davegolf said:

 

Run the Super Nub, Modify bucking, stock TM barrel, high power gas, stiffer recoil buffer spring

 

What's the benefit of the stiffer recoil buffer spring?

Also - what sort of FPs variation do you all get?
I switched the drum mag over to HPA and got crazy results - which made me think something was up with the NPAS.
Took the NPAS out and replaced it with the original part. 
Retested. Pretty much the same.
Tested with std mag and red gas and got these:
230.9
217.4
230.1
227.8
235.8
252.6
249.9
240.9
236.8
235
251.3
263.7
251.7
259.7
240
226.1
243.6
219.3
259.4
That's with .36s.
Site limit with them is 260. That's a huge variation, which makes me think that there's something awry inside.
I'm going to get a new piston head rubber and change out an o-ring on the firing pin (as they're both a bit slack).
Other than that, I have no idea what it could be.
Any helpful suggestions or guidance would be much appreciated!
TIA 😄 

 

[Wo1f]

Take the nozzle out of the BCG, clean out the insides and wipe it down with silicone oil and a little bit on the piston cup/sealing thingy. Over time it can get a little dry and hurt consistency  

[Davegolf]

38 minutes ago, sonofsammo said:

What's the benefit of the stiffer recoil buffer spring?

TIA

 

Absorbs more of the harder Recoil, making everything happier.

Makes the whole shot cycle faster.

Better nozzle / bucking seating consistency.

 

TIA? This Is Africa!? Only kidding

[sonofsammo]

Just now, Davegolf said:

 

Absorbs more of the harder Recoil, making everything happier.

Makes the whole shot cycle faster.

Better nozzle / bucking seating consistency.

Cool. Makes sense - I dont' suppose you could link me to one by any chance please? Because I'm starting to lose my sanity going through TM parts! And I'd probably end up ordering the wrong one 😞 

 

[Davegolf]

 

PS FPS Usually very consistent, naturally dropping slowly on gas, shouldn't be the case on HPA.

 

@Wo1f has the fix, especially if you run HPA - it's dry air, no suspended lube as per airsoft gas.

[Daanios]

Hi Guys,

 

Just made an account so i could use all your wisdom and ask some questions about the beautiful MWS. Sorry if my English isn't perfect sometimes, i'm from Holland and sometimes the grammar is a bit hard for me.

 

I'm going to buy my first MWS (m4a1 or cqb are the only one's i could get my hands on, in Holland for a reasonable price)

 

My problem is the fps (joule) limit.

In Holland we have some new rules that:

- Assault rifles may have a max of 1.2 J tested with .3 bb's (and a max weight of .3 bb's during the game)

- Dmr's may have 1,7 J tested with .3 (and a max weight of .4 bb's during the game)

 

I also come to England every year for a Milsim of Stirling airsoft.

They have a max of 370 FPS (with .2) for assault (and no DMR).

 

- So i'm not sure if i'm going to make a DMR for the rules in Holland, with an max of 370 FPS (so i could use it in England as well).

- Or could it be an possibility to make 2 inner barrels/hop ups, one for England and one for Holland. (Is changing the inner barrel/hop up a quick switch?)

- Or should i just stay with one unit and stay under the 1.2 J (test with .3 bb's)

 

I also have some questions about upgrading parts and all (i made an list of every upgrade that's used on this post) but those questions depend on were i'm going to use my mws for. 

And no an 2nd mws is not an option

 

I hope that you guys with all the knowledge about the mws could help me make a choice. 

 

greetings,

 

[Crazy_Crystal]

hi @Daanios

 

welcome to the forum, and the mws is a great choice in either the CQBR or m4a1 form, it's just whatever look you prefer.

 

most of us are based in the UK, and it should be noted that the maximum muzzle energy for any full auto or burst fire Airsoft guns is 1.3 joules regardless of BB weight.

 

personally I think that the easiest way to adjust the energy is with an NPAS which is fitted in the nozzle. this is easily adjusted at crono on the day which is helpful. although multiple upper receivers or bolts is another option, but I am not so familiar with the aftermarket bolts. I'm sure that someone else can fill in the details on that front.

[Davegolf]

Hi @Daanios, nice choice of RIF!

 

1.3J @ 0.3g BB = 385 FPS @ 0.2g! Luckily working backwards with joule creep will reduce that.

 

I think you need to decide how you want to use your MWS, but you get a lot of joule creep, so tune to your Holland limit of 1.3J on 0.3g BB, that should net you a lower joule reading on 0.2s, making it safe over here

 

As per usual, don't get hung up on FPS with an MWS, they have exceptional range regardless, most of the time more FPS only gives faster time to target.

[Daanios]

Hi @Davegolf and @Crazy_Crystal,

 

Thanks for your help.

I think i will stick with the normal assault, i rarely use full auto but it is easier with a MED of only 5m instead of 15m (in Holland).

 

I read a lot about the SixG super nub, and the modify tan.

Do those upgrades have enough effect in an 1.2 J Mws with .3 BB's?

 

I'm planning to give my Mws an longer inner barrel, do you guys recommend 6.03 or 6.05.

I will be downgrading my FPS with an NPAS or the Enhanced Nozzle valve, i read a lot about in these posts.  

 

Does the UAC Aluminium bolt carrier have any effect of the FPS? (could this help me getting my 1.2J)

 

 

 

 

 

[Jimmeh]

1 hour ago, Daanios said:

Hi @Davegolf and @Crazy_Crystal,

 

Thanks for your help.

I think i will stick with the normal assault, i rarely use full auto but it is easier with a MED of only 5m instead of 15m (in Holland).

 

I read a lot about the SixG super nub, and the modify tan.

Do those upgrades have enough effect in an 1.2 J Mws with .3 BB's?

 

I'm planning to give my Mws an longer inner barrel, do you guys recommend 6.03 or 6.05.

I will be downgrading my FPS with an NPAS or the Enhanced Nozzle valve, i read a lot about in these posts.  

 

Does the UAC Aluminium bolt carrier have any effect of the FPS? (could this help me getting my 1.2J)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have thought about having a DMR version but a lot of sites here have a 30m MED, so its too far. If it were 15 then I think I would do it, because I will get to use my pistol more.

 

My advice to you is to stick with normal assault, but I would advise against a longer inner barrel. It will make it a lot harder to lower your FPS to a legal level, especially on heavier BBs. The NPAS works, but only to a point. After a while, it becomes unstable and the FPS drops through the floor. 

 

To lower my FPS I have tried NPAS, Low Flow Disks, and G&P adjustable low flow valve. I'm still not happy that I am below the 1.13J I need to be, but I am getting there with tweaking. 

 

[Wo1f]

Before you change anything, chrono it on .30’s and get a baseline for joules. The SixG nub and modify tan works well at any FPS. I’ve ran it in my 310fps CASV and in a 400 FPS DMR with great success. 

[RMDavis]

Curse this thread! 😂

 

Slowly making my way through it, as I type this. Its a gold mine of great information which has already answered many of my questions!

 

I think a TM M4 MWS CQBR will be my next purchase...

[Crazy_Crystal]

I had my first game with mine last Saturday and needless to say they perform incredibly well. If you can get on with the real cap mags I doubt that you will be disappointed. the range and accuracy with 0.36g BB's was impressive despite some very heavy wind 🙂

[Daanios]

13 hours ago, Crazy_Crystal said:

I had my first game with mine last Saturday and needless to say they perform incredibly well. If you can get on with the real cap mags I doubt that you will be disappointed. the range and accuracy with 0.36g BB's was impressive despite some very heavy wind 🙂

With the .36 bbs, did you use it as a assaulted rifle with 1.3J? 

[sonofsammo]

I'm getting there. Finally.

After tweaking the NPAS, it's sitting nicely at around 1.4J - site limit for DMR is 1.49J.
Am using a 350 round HPA tapped drum mag.
Now I just need to test it to get it firing straight and we're good to go.
I probably won't use that scope in the end - will probably put the vortex diamondback on it.
But either way, I'm getting excited I might actually, finally, be able to field it!
 

[Immortal]

1 minute ago, sonofsammo said:

I'm getting there. Finally.

After tweaking the NPAS, it's sitting nicely at around 1.4J - site limit for DMR is 1.49J.
Am using a 350 round HPA tapped drum mag.
Now I just need to test it to get it firing straight and we're good to go.
I probably won't use that scope in the end - will probably put the vortex diamondback on it.
But either way, I'm getting excited I might actually, finally, be able to field it!
 

 

Very nice 👍

[Crazy_Crystal]

1 hour ago, Daanios said:

With the .36 bbs, did you use it as a assaulted rifle with 1.3J? 

yep, I just had to drop the power ever so slightly using the NPAS valve. I should probably add that my sites limits are 1.14 J too so it's currently set to about 1.1J with 0.36 to be on the safe side.

 

it's stock apart from NPAS a modify tan bucking and one of daves brass nubs. the previous owner had already installed these but it doesn't look like he ever actually skirmished the rifle so otherwise it was pretty much new.

 

@sonofsammo that is starting to sound like a bit of a beast. you'll have to let us know how you get on... but I mean 350 rounds!!!!! I only normally carry 280 on me and that lasted me for a day 😂

 

[sonofsammo]

13 minutes ago, Crazy_Crystal said:

 

@sonofsammo that is starting to sound like a bit of a beast. you'll have to let us know how you get on... but I mean 350 rounds!!!!! I only normally carry 280 on me and that lasted me for a day 😂

 

Many thanks. And holy crap, surely not for a normal skirmish???
I used to have 224 rounds across 7 mags. And it was a ballache when going up against hicap AEGs.
However, thanks to the wonderful magic of @rocketdogbert I know have a custom made AW drum mag for it...
And I'm so excited at the prospect of being uber competitive against everyone, without having to be particularly sneaky 😄 

 

[Crazy_Crystal]

it was a gunman filmsim, and I got through about half my rounds over two 3 hour games. clearly I am just more stingy than I thought 😂 but I only use semi auto and maybe I was being a bit sneaky.

 

I probably will use more when I go to the next normal skirmish, but I'll have to get back to you on that. let us know how you get on, I'm sure that you'll be able to out shoot most people on the field.

[sonofsammo]

25 minutes ago, Crazy_Crystal said:

it was a gunman filmsim, and I got through about half my rounds over two 3 hour games. clearly I am just more stingy than I thought 😂 but I only use semi auto and maybe I was being a bit sneaky.

 

I probably will use more when I go to the next normal skirmish, but I'll have to get back to you on that. let us know how you get on, I'm sure that you'll be able to out shoot most people on the field.

Ah - that makes sense. When I've used it as an assault rifle, I generally get through six mags in around half an hour. I then hide to reload em all! lol