Boy killed for brandishing a pistol

[TheGrover]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30172433

 

This is why we need UKARA. If anything, the VCRA is a little weak. I know this is in America, but i have a sneaking suspicion that there are people like this in our country

[M_P]

We don't need ukara, ukara wouldn't have prevented this in anyway.

[TheGrover]

We don't need ukara, ukara wouldn't have prevented this in anyway.

If he hadnt had a pistol, he wouldnt have been shot. Evidently he didnt deserve one because he had no respect for gun safety.

 

UKARA isnt perfect, but its better than having nothing to protect people like this kid

[Minimatt]

I heard this on the radio earlier, Mental, the police asked him to put his hands on his head but he reached into his belt area and revield a gun, Police are trained in a certain way to deal with these situations and im guessing they done what they were taught, Thats what i heard on the radio.

[Baz JJ]

This is Cleveland in the USA,

 

The real question is how did a 12 year old get his hands on an Airsoft pistol ?

 

Somebody has either given it to him or left it lying around or can 12 year olds buy them in the US ?

 

Airsoft guns don't fire real bullets but can get you killed just as readily as the real things.

 

They should be respected like a real firearm by those that legally buy them and kept locked away around minors IMHO

[M_P]

If he hadnt had a pistol, he wouldnt have been shot. Evidently he didnt deserve one because he had no respect for gun safety.

UKARA isnt perfect, but its better than having nothing to protect people like this kid

Ukara doesn't stop people buying them, the VCRA does.

[TheGrover]

Ukara doesn't stop people buying them, the VCRA does.

I see where youre coming from, but here in the UK, UKARA is the most popular way of proving a defence, made specifically to work with the VCRA. Ukara makes a good start of keeping RIFs out of the hands of minors, and people with ukara have had two months to learn to respect gun safety and the importance of treating an RIF like a real gun.

 

Like i said earlier, its not perfect, but its a giid step in the right direction. And maybe a similar system in the US would have prevented this kid being shot.

 

That and mandatory education before you can buy one. Perhaps making retailers responsible for informing buyers of the legal requirements and what can happen (ie. Kid gets shot dead) if you dont use it safely.

[M_P]

That's exactly my point, it's the most popular system but it does nothing to stop underage people getting rifs. If overnight ukara went away it would be no easier for them to get hold of guns. Only 18+ people can get ukara registered but that's because of the VCRA, which is the limiting factor.

 

The VCRA is the law and that imposes the 18+ limit, ukara is a way for people of age to get realistically coloured guns, whilst protecting the retailers, nothing more.

 

The VCRA is what's in place to stop it, ukara doesn't stop minors having rifs any more than having no ukara would. You need to be 18+ with a valid defence to obtain one, but that's it.

[TheGrover]

You are perfectly correct, but when selling an RIF (imagine he bought the gun from a website, with no face to face sales) the first thing the retailer asks for is a UKARA number, which prevents a minor making the purchase straight away.

 

While it is the VCRA which makes the restrictions, its the near-universal adoption of UKARA within UK retailers which stops every 12 year old into guns getting online and buying a gun.

[kungfumonkey]

even then whats stopping someone buying a two tone then spraying it black in regards to the thread i thought all airsoft guns had to have a bright orange flash hider in the u.s also why shoot to kill instead of shoot to disable the threat.

[TheGrover]

even then whats stopping someone buying a two tone then spraying it black in regards to the thread i thought all airsoft guns had to have a bright orange flash hider in the u.s also why shoot to kill instead of shoot to disable the threat.

1) nothing, people who try to break laws will always find a way

 

2) they are, but people take them off

 

3) maybe they tried. But 12 year old boys arent usually used to being shot. He probably would have died of shock even if the bullet wound wasnt fatal (and details of the shooting arent released yet)

[M_P]

You are perfectly correct, but when selling an RIF (imagine he bought the gun from a website, with no face to face sales) the first thing the retailer asks for is a UKARA number, which prevents a minor making the purchase straight away.

While it is the VCRA which makes the restrictions, its the near-universal adoption of UKARA within UK retailers which stops every 12 year old into guns getting online and buying a gun.

You're right but there are other ways of verifying age, my point was that it's not something down solely to ukara. UKARA just carries out the process and even without it'd still easily be possible but that must've gotten lost in the text somewhere

 

even then whats stopping someone buying a two tone then spraying it black in regards to the thread i thought all airsoft guns had to have a bright orange flash hider in the u.s also why shoot to kill instead of shoot to disable the threat.

According to the news the boy had removed the orange.

[TheGrover]

 

According to the news the boy had removed the orange.

More to the point, he was using it to scare people in public (perhaps deliberatley?) So what did he expect?

 

And even more on point, where were his parents/guardians?

[Sitting Duck]

It is a very tragic waste of a life

the kid could of been thinking to reach for gun and drop the weapon first on floor

(like he sees in movies/tv etc...)

 

BUT - the officer had to make an immediate split second decision

yes he could of shot shoulder or another area that may not have been so life threatening

but then he hardly emptied a mag or finished with a final head shot after the 2 body shots

 

So yeah with hindsight he could of done things a bit different and kid would still be alive

but then the kid could of not taken it to the park too

 

The kid probably screwed up when officers spoke to him - c'mon what teenager/kid follows

instructions or does as they are told straight away - maybe he didn't hear or thought he should

drop weapon on floor then put hands on head etc - who knows & we might never know for sure

what kid was thinking

 

Terrible tragic waste of a life - poor mum etc......

and just more airsoft bad press we could do without

if it happened in this country I would like to think armed officers would be a little more cautious

BUT then I ain't gonna be feckin stupid enough to tempt fate and take stuff out to the park either

 

The gun looked very real at first glance - orange tip removed - open park area - pointing it at people

Stupid kid - and that is what he is/was and just asking for trouble but still very sad for kid's family

[BrightCandle]

Suicide by cop. Anyone living in the USA must know by now if you pull out a pen or hand out of your pocket let alone a fake gun you are going to get shot. The police in the USA love pulling the trigger, its the number one way to die with a gun.

[Mike636]

No body shoots to wound it doesn't exist. Well it does but its a very specific thing and not something that is routinely taught.

 

You cannot guarantee that shooting some one in any other place other than the chest/head will stop them from being a threat. Sometimes shooting in the chest/head doesn't work. It's also a lot smaller target area that's moving quickly. If you shoot to wound and the person dies is it manslaughter?

 

The only time people aim for other areas is when people try to kill themselves and a marksman shoots the gun instead but its very rare.

[Lozart]

I honestly think this thread needs a title change to "Boy killed for being a dick". I mean, come on, seriously he was waving a replica weapon about and when challenged by armed police he failed to comply and starting showing them the gun. What EXACTLY did he expect?

[TheGrover]

I was trying to keep it a little more neutral and PC, but that does just about sum up my thoughts

[Airsoft-Ed]

What an utter bum face.

He was probably a dick if he was walking around with a replica gun in public though... Also, Grover, back onto the whole, "You're wrong, Marcus is right" law thing lol. I heard that the kid had removed the orange tip, since all airsoft guns in the US are sold with them on.

So if you were to flip it all around and say it'd happened in the UK, that'd just be the same as a kid painting over the two tone on a gun their parents gifted them or something. (Nothing to do with UKARA, which by the way, means UK Airsoft Retailer Association... Retailers don't make laws, or enforce them lol)

At the end of the day, no laws protects anyone, it just doesn't protect the people who break them... Can't protect people from stuff once it's already happened and this could definitely happen just as easily in the UK, it probably will some day, it's just a matter of time really.

[Josh95]

To be honest it is the kids fault,

Air-soft guns in the US should have a orange tip on them which this one did not, so he must have removed it...

Lethal shooting in the U.S by police are very common occurrence unlike here in the UK theyre much more gung-ho...

Why the hell would you take a RIF to a playground? yes he is only 12 but its pretty common sense...

[TheGrover]

It might get to the point where you need to pass a gun-safety test before you can buy an RIF (or even an IF), some way to make sure that the only people who get shot for waving a toy gun around are the pricks who deserve it, rather than the kids that dont know better.

 

Call it the common-sense test

[jcheeseright]

Oh right, and who's going to administer this common sense test? The ministry of fuck-all-else-to-do?

 

Nothing will change, this whole thing while unfortunate could only have been prevented by the kid not being a retard.

 

As for 'shoot to wound'... no such thing, if you fire a gun at someone you do it with the intention of killing them, someone can die MUCH faster from a hit to the upper thigh than one to the chest.

[BrightCandle]

Rule of Darwin unfortunately applies, if you are not fit enough to know that brandishing a pistol at the police will get you killed well then you wont survive to adulthood and have children. That kid did a really stupid thing, removing the orange tip to make it look real, then pointing it at a load of people in the park, then pulling out when police turn up I mean seriously what do people expect to happen here exactly? Its horrific that a kid died with an airsoft gun in his hand, but its the reality that we don't know who the good guys and the bad guys are, the police can only see the actions that occur in front of them. I feel for the police officers who had to fire their guns in self defence that day against someone who appeared to be trying to hurt them. I also feel for the kids family who lost a son/brother/sister after their kid was playing a stupid prank in the park. The police given the situation in the USA likely did the right thing.

[ikarma70]

No sympathy as the orange tip was missing, he ignored the cops 2 warnings..... How on earth would something like UkARA help?

 

It's like a kid taking a 2 tone and spraying it black and waving it around in a bank!!!

[Mike636]

If you wave a two tone about,

 

You're still going to get shot.