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mr-bodycounter

People tend to shoot me after I hit them?

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A lot of the time (mainly in CQB engagements) I will get the drop on someone, shoot them once or twice when their gun is down and then they will be hit, raise their gun, shoot me and then call the hit even though realistically they were dead before they even sighted me in. Admittedly this tends to happen more often with newer or rental players but it is very frustrating as I tend to just call it anyway to reduce arguments but does anyone else experience this at all and what do you do because it makes my feel like they have final stand from CoD which I will not even get started on.

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I will get the drop on someone, shoot them once or twice.

That may be your issue. I haven't played at CQC in a while but when I did I had the same issue until I decided enough was enough and would unload half a magazine at someone so there is no childish "oh but I shot you too, cheater".

 

Yes, it sounds dickish but honestly they shouldn't be a dick in the first place, shooting you after they're hit. Some people cannot admit defeat you see.

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I don't think it's really worth telling a marshall to be honest because I genuinely don't think people mean to do it but I was on an incredible run on Saturday, I guy rushes me and I just shoot him twice and then like half a second after I've hit him he'll raise his gun and hit me and I don't think it's blatant cheating but half the reason I tend to call it with hire people (I mean if it's a regular player then they should know better) is because I know it means more to them to get a kill then it does to me to get a death and I don't want to put them off the sport and also, I don't want to cause any arguments because it is just a game.

 

I will get the drop on someone, shoot them once or twice.


That may be your issue. I haven't played at CQC in a while but when I did I had the same issue until I decided enough was enough and would unload half a magazine at someone so there is no childish "oh but I shot you too, cheater".

Yes, it sounds dickish but honestly they shouldn't be a dick in the first place, shooting you after they're hit. Some people cannot admit defeat you see.

 

I understand but I only fully dump a mag into someone who is blatantly cheating and I don't want to be dragged into that sort of mentality but I suppose it depends what mood I am in.

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Seem to get quite a few cases of hitting someone, then they hit you and they don't take the hit because they "hit you first"

 

I personally take the hit even if they get hit with their gun lowered, then aim and shoot me. I do normally say do you want to take your hit as well, makes some people realise whilst I guess others like cheating...

 

Whilst I can see why some people think going down the overkill route is a good idea it certainly isn't going to improve gameplay, much like screaming take your hits at the top of your lungs won't.

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More often, in my case anyway, I hit them and it's like a delayed reaction and they raise and shoot me and a second later call hit but I agree with you and reserve the overkill route for blatant cheaters or people who need a little help taking their hits.

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Sometimes it takes a second for your brain to register the hit. I know it has happened to me, where I hear someone shoot, turn and return fire and then realise, 'oh wait a minute, I got hit'. If someone is doing it all the time then it's probably intentional but quite often it can just be their brain playing tricks where the information about being hit gets delayed slightly due to all the other things going on.

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I think I am guilty of that... Sometimes, when my blood is 99% adrenaline, and someone jumps out of a corner with a gun pointed at me, my first reaction would be to point and double tap them. And its quite often that they'll pull the trigger first, and me half a second behind. We both call hit, then I think "Wait, didn't he hit me first?". I would then proceed to feel guilty for the whole day.

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I am always going to verge on the side of assuming that I didn't hit someone until they call it. I have seen how inaccurate these stupid things can be, how you can have feed issues and no BB comes out etc. So my assumption is if I shoot and I don't see their hand go up and a nice loud hit call that I haven't hit them, so I keep firing until I do see that. You just can't assume that you hit them and the other guy is cheating. They even appear to flinch sometimes like you hit them but then not call it, those I assume are close shots rather than actual hits. You run the risk of overkilling if you keep firing into someone, but that is on them not calling it quickly not on you for firing because you have no indication that they have actually been hit yet.

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My opinion on overkill is that (beyond a reasonable distance) it's not really overkill til you see a hand go up or hear them shout hit. Up close drilling someone with 20 BBs is clearly a dick move (just a game people!), but if you're 30-40 yards from them just hammer away til they give some indication they're hit!

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I've never seen this happen personally, but I will never take my sights off someone until I see their hand up. If you shoot someone, lower your gun, and they turn to shoot you, maybe they assume you haven't seen them and they were only made aware by some other noise that wasn't in fact your BB hitting them. Obviously it was that, but maybe they're just playing coy about it because they don't want to lose, or it could be a genuine lack of awareness.

Who knows? But I don't lower my gun. If you've already got your muzzle trained on them then the threat of being shot again if they make a move tends to deter them. If they make a move, just shoot them again.

It's a shame that because of a minority, we find ourselves forced to shoot people more times than need be, because it's that aggressive response when applied to someone totally honest that people get pissy and the whole thing just grows worse exponentially. It's why marshalling is so important. If site staff can't properly deal with cheaters then you often end up with both teams playing like total dicks by 3pm.

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I do think that a lot of this kind of thing is pure adrenaline. I know I don't feel hits very well when I'm fully on edge - it's the main reason I've stopped wearing vests, because i feel hits a lot better through just a shirt. But then again, I have to take a lot of pain medication to be there at all, so perhaps I'm not a good example. Still...

 

...one of the last times I was out, a person was on a major adrenaline one over getting knife kills. His technique was to just sprint at us... which, as daft as it sounds, had done quite well earlier on, because he'd go for high speed flanking maneuvers then be on you before you even noticed he was the enemy - he got me that way once and i heard chat that it had worked plenty of times. So, by late afternoon, the whole trip was going to his head - he sprinted at us through a doorway in the Fort @Skirmish, Budby site - I'm pretty sure that the lad stood next to me shot him with his AEG the moment he appeared in the doorway, and I know for a fact that i double tapped him with my pistol. There was no possibility of a miss - I was already aiming at the nearside of the doorway as he came through it at exactly that spot - I just had to pull the trigger. Because he argued that it was a 50/50 I fired into the ground to make sure it was loaded and working - it was.

 

For it to have been 50/50 he would have to have been moving as fast as my BB's for 2 metres-ish having just changed direction to get through the door - my hole. I know what happened. All of us stood around that doorway know what happened, except apparently the knife kill wonderkind, but although he refused to accept that we had shot him first, he took his hit and did not call a marshal. Looking back I realise I should have, but I just ignored it and carried on with the game.

 

For me if there is reasonable doubt I'll always take the hit, but when the same person seems to be relying on my sense of honour to get inside my AEG's outranging of theirs by sprinting towards me while i'm firing at them, so in theory i could be missing, then taking the hit when their effective range is reached (and this has happened a number of times) then I feel that the reasonableness of the doubt comes into question.

 

Part of my thinking is that I don't fiddle with my AEG's and buy upgrade parts for them just so that I can ignore the range advantage, in order that I don't offend anyone, and take any old dubious hits to keep the peace. But then again, if a marshal wasn't present so they could make a decision based on what they actually saw, what can they say except 50/50? I believe that when people know they are pushing their luck they'll not make a big deal out of it. If they do make a big deal out of it, then either they genuinely believe they are right, in which case i have to sympathise with the marshal, who is in an impossible position, and take the hit, or they are a bold faced liar, in which case having brought it to the attention of a marshal, they are unlikely to get away with pushing their luck that way a second time. But that is it though: I play responsibly so I trust my senses unless my opinion is challenged. What else can we do?

 

As Ed says though, good marshalling is essential. We have to trust the marshals so that if we do take a hit under dubious circumstances to keep the peace, they will not only keep an eye on the players involved, but remember the details of what happened and, if it happens again, not be inclined to dismiss it as a simple "don't know = 50/50". It is an unfortunate fact of our game however that the quality of marshalling is not consistent and that there are people who who do not simply push their luck, but blatantly cheat. In the face of the perfect storm of dicks for marshals and dicks for opposition, my enthusiasm for the game fails.

 

It has only happened to me that bad once - I did leave early. Unfortunately I did not come to that decision before resorting to the same dick tactics - on one occasion ignoring about 5 hits to pump over a full 100rnd mid cap into the target - it took that many shots at someone less than 30m away to get him to finally call hit, which is to ignore the 2 other times i'd gone up against him in the same position and taken my hits and the several team mates who had done similar - yes he was surrounded by undergrowth and bushes, but so were we, so he was either the luckiest bastard to ever take the field or cheating his arse off. But the thing is, once I had done that, even though we could progress, I didn't want to play anymore. If there are no rules, there is no game. Why bother with tactics/cover/the effort to make your guns better/etc when you're just going to refuse to take your hits? Where's the challenge?

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This happens at the Malls. A lot.

 

First off if it keeps happening tell a marshal. It's what they are there for.

 

Secondly, if you get two people in close proximity shooting each other at the same time then BOTH should take the hit. I mean, it's just a game, respawn is never far away at most CQB sites. Just don't be a dick about it. If anyone does it to me then I make a point of hunting them down when I respawn.

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At Northern Alliance they have a very intense CQB area, it is composed of 3 bomb old stores enclosed within a concrete wall with an earth embankment up against the outside. Inside this wall the three buildings are separated by concrete walls to make 3 enclosures and each enclosure has an entrance from the outside Northern Alliance have cut doorways through the two internal concrete walls and subdivided the three buildings internally with wooden walls and doors. Each building has two entrances on opposite sides This makes for very tight and intense extremely close play. A lot of the time it is face to face shooting less than a guns length apart.

A lot of the time it is genuinely 50/50 and both call the hits. Marshals stand on the concrete rooftops and tops of the outer wall and embankment which are level with the rooftops and they can keep a very close watch on play. Without good marshals and honest play it would be chaos.

Even so there are people who will keep shooting after they are hit.

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I remember the last time I played at the Malls a few of us rushed into a cleared a shop. I shot a guy pretty squarely in the leg but instead of calling it he backed up around a pillar. So I shot him again. He started bitching about already being dead so I said "why were you hiding then?", "Oh I was just getting out of the way" he said. "Respawn's that way" I replied, pointing out of the door.

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Oh I completely understand the adrenaline but I suppose I do expect too much of players in terms of hit taking and I personally don't ever wear sapi plates (just for looks to be honest out of the game) because they are like BB Proof and it is impossible to 'feel' hits through that.

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I think we need to look at this in a similar way to driving, in the way we have a reaction time or more accurately a reaction delay.

The motor industry standard is 1.5 seconds to see an incident, process it and be physically ready to carry out an action, that's a conservative judgement, for some experienced players that will be significantly quicker.

 

During the initial 1.5s reaction phase or "thinking time" you need to process that first off it's a person, establish their team or if they are a viable target and If you think you can hit them. Only once that is completed can you then raise the gun, take aim and shoot. Conservatively from hight ready it takes about 0.4 seconds to engage.

So we are closing on 2 seconds from your first sight to the bb hitting the target.

 

Now if you see them first, and they see you even 1 second after, you have the advantage, because they mentally and physically can't react quickly enough, yet you are both in the reaction time and neither of you have made the shot yet.

 

In theory .... reaction times and action times are individual to you and can be improved with practice, although this is all done subconsciously.

 

In my book It's not cheating, it's just basic human reactions. So long as both of you own up and admit the hits like adults.

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