So we can't buy RIFS without jumping through hoops and yet...

[Lozart]

...this

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0050RGSRW/ref=s9_simh_gw_p200_d0_i4?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=07B7SKVBE2X8N3ENZYV2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455344027&pf_rd_i=468294 is freely available through Amazon.

 

What the actual fudge is that all about?

[evilfree]

It is retarded isnt it.

 

A normal person wouldnt see the difference between that, an airsoft gun or a real steel.

[jcheeseright]

paintball gun, covered by the air weapons section of the firearms act. as long as you're over 18 and it's less than 12ft/lb they're perfectly legal... yet another way that the VCRA is complete bullshit.

[dex]

Jesus Christ that is ugly.

[Airsoft_Mr B]

As stupid as it is - just be thankful we're not in Australia or Thailand etc.

[cropzy]

I think I just vomited.

[BrightCandle]

Another area where it isn't consistent is air guns. You can get a 6ft/lb (8j I think) pistol that fires either pellets or steel BB's and get them in real steel look and feel without any UKARA, the only provision being a face to face sale. Admittedly its not an assault rifle but if you get a considerably less dangerous airsoft pistol (1j and plastic BBs) its got to be two toned. That makes no logical sense at all.

 

But as a responsible adult and airsofter I jump through the governments hoops when it comes to firing and owning firearms. I bring no attention to myself, I don't share the hobby with my family or most of my friends and I just keep it under wraps. Our country has a cultural aversion to guns because some horrible people have done some horrific things with them. For now at least I am happy that I can still get a RIF airsoft gun and go run around and play solder and shoot at least some real steel guns in a rifle club.

[Moose87]

Yes highly frustrating. Im of the opinion that there is no need for a Law governing the sale of toys. Instead of finding an alternative to UKARA people should be getting behind having that section of the VCRA repealled. People are talking about trying to get .22 sport pistols legalised when i think the law is very clear on that.

[baz-1988]

I'm jumping through hoops right now to get my UKARA..... Was planning to get it last year got two games under belt then broke my foot messed it up quite bad, so now I'm back on track to get. I know thart all the effort to gain my UKARA will be worth it, yet I'm not a dangerous lunatic planning armed robberies on my local book makers! So to end my rant that piece that was first posted would fool most people!

[BrightCandle]

I don't think 3 games in a 2-12 month period is unnecessarily draconian. If you aren't managing to get 3 games in a year or you haven't played the game for at least 2 months its not really reasonable to say your a serious airsofter in need of your own kit. My issue with the law application is the assumption you'll play it all on one site and if you don't you can't (re)gain your UKARA for the purchase of RIFs. But its not hard to fix the scheme so it could account for those players and teams that travel all around the UK and world to play their games rather than being on one site all the time.

[Longshot]

I'm just going to point out that the law and UKARA are not the same thing. The law doesn't say you have to play anywhere for any amount of time, UKARA does.

[snuff]

I'm jumping through hoops right now to get my UKARA..... Was planning to get it last year got two games under belt then broke my foot messed it up quite bad, so now I'm back on track to get. I know thart all the effort to gain my UKARA will be worth it, yet I'm not a dangerous lunatic planning armed robberies on my local book makers! So to end my rant that piece that was first posted would fool most people!

How does anybody have to jump through hoops???

3 games in a set time and there you go,I have to ask as it baffled me...

[jcheeseright]

some would argue that having to attend 3 games in not less than 2 months, not more than 12 months all at the same UKARA registered site counts as jumping through at least one hoop.

 

I know I do, it's not a difficult thing to do but it IS a ball ache.

[snuff]

I was expecting the poster to reply with tasks he had to perform beyond the norm',I don't agree that it's a ball ache but then again it may differ for other people.....

[baz-1988]

How does anybody have to jump through hoops???

3 games in a set time and there you go,I have to ask as it baffled me...

 

I may have worded it wrong apologies, I had to look more into it as I have been at her majesty's pleasure. I signed a firearms act when released,but it has no effect now as my sentence was under the threshold of 4 years. If I had served 4 or more years any firearm would be out of the question even fireworks or party poppers. So to answer your reply it was a ball ache for me.

[BrightCandle]

When you look at it logically you have a toy that is considerably less powerful than most airguns that don't have the same hoops as you can walk out to a shop right now and buy a semi auto air gun. They have the hoops purely because it looks like something more dangerous and its for airsoft and not another similar hobby like paintball. That doesn't really make any logical sense, a gun that is dangerous you can just buy but something that can't remotely kill someone requires proof you intend to use it in the appropriate places? These laws and the application of them wasn't really about actually making things safer, it was about being seen to do something. Its easy enough to make the argument that any reasonable skirmisher should be able to meet these requirements yearly and a new player doesn't have to wait very long at all. Just joining a rifle club with a police check can take 6-8 weeks these days so its not like 2 months is out of the question for an industry run scheme.

 

The hoop however distorts the retail market. Either making rental guns far more important and lucrative than they would otherwise be and causing the sale of a lot of two tone weapons as temporary replacements. You could argue the current system is very much advantageous to the retailers because they often get to sell two guns purely because of UKARA and how they interpreted the law. I don't think its a really arduous hoops, its mostly impacting on new people coming into the hobby and making it more expensive for them to do so by about £100 where I am (either the gun is ~£100 or rental at £30 a game). Having to lump down rental money for 2 months or buy a beginners two tone isn't awful but its also increasing revenue to the airsoft stores and sites.

 

Then what wolfarmouries does is allow you to buy a RIF from them and they will bring it along to any game you prebook, so you can avoid the rentals and still use your gun in games. That is great, its also a wonderful way to ensure all players at Bunker 51 have to buy their gun from them, helping to make them much cheaper overall than their competitors even if they are charge more for the gun itself. That is just another little application of the implications of this minor hoop that makes stores that run sites and run a similar scheme get to increase their yearly sales a little even if they are more expensive than the others.

 

Its not that the hoops are really bad, I don't think its reasonable to argue against the 2 month minimum or the 3 game yearly limit they are in my mind perfectly reasonable measures. But we also have to recognise that some sites charge for getting the UKARA form stamped for a yearly membership to their site as well, just another way in which UKARA is used. We do have to recognise it distorts the retail and site market and its being used to fleece us of more cash, and puts a barrier in the way for new players who are disadvantaged by it.

[Longshot]

You make some good and accurate points Bright. I would say though I never understand when people say how much renting for three games costs; it's not £30 a game ADDITIONAL to rent, it's more like £10 additional to rent since everyone has to pay the game fee whether they have their own gun or not. So waiting for UKARA (if you decide you really want it) is only really going to cost you about £30.

[M_P]

Most sites charge £25, add 10 for rental, 10 for more ammo that's £45. Then there's pyro or the odd optional bit of kit, drink chocolate bar etc on top of tha so often ends up near £40-50

[BrightCandle]

Bunker 51 is £30 for the rental in addition to the game price. They vary from about £10 to £30 here in London.

[jcheeseright]

£30 for a rental gun?! They'd best be good guns then, that's outrageous!

[BrightCandle]

£30 for a rental gun?! They'd best be good guns then, that's outrageous!

They are full metal AKs held together with black gaffer tape. The two I had (the first wouldn't feed at all) were both wobbly and the batteries were held in with gaffer tape. So no they weren't good, they were really heavy and rubbish. In that price you also get a face mask (was pretty bad also, very darkening mesh on the eyes and restrictive breathing) and 3000 0.20 g blaster BBs. You don't even get overalls/camo like some other sites I have seen do.

 

Like I said in my review I think its a ploy to try and get people to buy the gun with their pre hire scheme to work around UKARA and drive more gun sales. I took exception to the tactic (even if they did sell a gun I would buy) and decided I would buy elsewhere.

[jcheeseright]

For £30 you could get on a train to one of the other sites in the south east and hire there! Blue streak are supposedly very good.

[M_P]

For £30 you could get on a train to one of the other sites in the south east and hire there! Blue streak are supposedly very good.

I think bunker 51 is run by wolf armouries- if so that would explain the prices lol

[Longshot]

£30 just of rental is ridiculous. How much is the actual game fee?

[BrightCandle]

Bunker 51 is £24.99 if its prebooked, £30 if you book within 48 hours of the game. But you also need to bare in mind its only a 3 hour evening game as well, not a full day event. Compared to a lot of other sites its pretty darn pricey. But in London we have a short list of suitable sites within 2 hours, you have Bunker 51, UCAP sandpit but no two tones and TWA woodland (kind of hard to get to with public transport). Epsom is just within the M25 and there is another CQB site in the far NW at watford junction as well. Bunker 51 has a monopoly on airsoft in London basically and its full every time it runs. Have to travel quite far to go somewhere else. TWA Urban shutting down is a real pain.

 

Wolfarmouries are also the only site I know of in London that don't charge you for stamping your UKARA form. So on the one hand its expensive but its also saving you £30 for the sites that charge you a "membership" fee. My experience so far in London is that UKARA is mostly used to fleece people out of cash and manipulate the market. It likely doesn't work in other areas as they have suitable competition but for sites near enough to me its all about choosing which poison you want to be taking.