Dangers of LI-PO Batteries

[Philhooper2024]

Friday the 27th of September 2024

my dad old man being 58 put a LI-PO battery on charge, didn’t use the fireproof case to charge it in he had as he completely forgot to do so, what harm could I cause right? It’s just a one off. Being avid air softers as we both are he didn’t see any issue with it as it was only going on charge for say 20 mins so he could test his new RIF.

he was smoking a cigarette outside the front door and left it on charge in the kitchen and than heard the smoke alarm. By the time he got back into the kitchen the place was ablaze. Fire brigade had to be called. This was all due to incompetence and negligence on his part. Please people. And all you new guys that play airsoft I implore you all to only charge and store your battery’s in a safe place and always use a fireproof pouch or box to charge your battery’s in.

if not, this could be you. Thankfully nobody was harmed but the damage is done and the entire house covered in soot. It’s just not worth the risk. 

 

Edited September 28 by Philhooper2024

[Jez_Armstrong]

So what was the cause? The battery was defective? The charger? 

[Pseudotectonic]

What exactly was the model of that battery? And charger?

 

Do you know how exactly did it fail? Just wondering would it make any difference if him being inside the house if the battery suddenly burst without warning

[Colin Allen]

Bloody hell!  That was difficult to read.

[Enid_Puceflange]

29 minutes ago, Colin Allen said:

Bloody hell!  That was difficult to read.

Awful situation, I bet dad is in the dog house!

To be honest, I don’t bag or box mine when charging, but never leave them unattended when charging

Just goes to show a couple of minutes is all it takes

Edited September 28 by Enid_Puceflange

[Sewdhull]

I've had no batteries catch fire or explode, except some nicads back in the 70s which overheated exploded and melted some carpet, in 50 years.

 

I store my batteries in ammo boxes partially charged nowadays, but before that just looked after them, threw away the puffies or physically damaged ones and use a decent charger.

 

I'm also older than you're dad, so lets not use that as any factor in batteries catching fire. 58 being old.. Pah

 

If you have a damaged lipo ( they are only protected by a thin plastic pouch) chuck it. if you have a cheapo charger, chuck it.  If you have electrically abused the battery, chuck it. That's how to stop batteries nuking.

 

Don't use old batteries, if you have been using a battery for Airsoft for a year get a new one, you've likely dropped your battery more than once, either in the gun or just being lazy and chucking it on the table. Lipos are soft and will deform if you drop them.

 

I neither charge my batteries attended or place them in a nest of kindling, just use sensible charging currents and a proper balance charger.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

On 28/09/2024 at 06:58, Philhooper2024 said:

This was all due to incompetence and negligence on his part

 

How, exactly?  Was the battery visibly damaged or puffed?  Did he charge at an extreme amperage? Did he use a Nuprol charger?

 

I do agree with the principle though: I charge in a cheap bag in an Explosion Containment Pie Dish at no more than 1C, and often no more than 1A regardless.

 

Note that a battery bag might contain the flames from a typical airsoft battery, or it might not.

 

 

 

A (vented) box or a proper Bat-Safe do a better job, but you'll still have a toasty smelling house.

 

 

[EDcase]

"This was all due to incompetence and negligence on his part"

 

I wouldn't blame him.  Its not normal for a battery to fail so catastrophically.  It must have been damaged (possibly unnoticeably) or the charger failed if it was a cheap one. Yes, its a pity he didn't have it in a safer place but I'm sure many of us leave them unattended for a few minutes at a time.

 

Sorry you all had this experience but thanks for the reminder.

[Cannonfodder]

I'm guessing that either the battery or charger were faulty as batteries don't spontaneously burst into flames for no reason. Batteries should be regularly inspected and binned if damaged or puffy.

 

I charge my batteries at work as it's free electricity and if the worst case senario does happen then it's not my house going up 

Just now, EDcase said:

Yes, its a pity he didn't have it in a safer place but I'm sure many of us leave them unattended for a few minutes at a time.

Exactly. While we all post about what should be done I'm sure we're all guilty of cutting corners at some point.

[MistakenMexican]

9 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

I'm guessing that either the battery or charger were faulty as batteries don't spontaneously burst into flames for no reason. Batteries should be regularly inspected and binned if damaged or puffy.

 

I charge my batteries at work as it's free electricity and if the worst case senario does happen then it's not my house going up 

Exactly. While we all post about what should be done I'm sure we're all guilty of cutting corners at some point.

This ☝🏽 Burn down your workplace, not your house.

[Enid_Puceflange]

14 minutes ago, MistakenMexican said:

This ☝🏽 Burn down your workplace, not your house.

It’s a Win - Win,innit 😂

Edited September 28 by Enid_Puceflange

[Cannonfodder]

17 minutes ago, Enid_Puceflange said:

It’s a Win - Win,innit 😂

 

I do security at empty buildings where they can't find a buyer or new tenants so the higher ups would probably be happy if I burnt the place to the ground.

 

And before anyone says it, yes I have looked into seeing of they'd allow airsoft games 🙁

 

 

[Pseudotectonic]

I have a question about charging LiPo, what are you supposed to be "keeping an eye on" when you are charging the LiPo, indoors? Do you need to literally watch it with a hawk's eye and unplug and chuck it out the window the nanosecond it swells? Or are you just feeling the temperature every 30 seconds or so? And how are you supposed to do all these inside a LiPo bag?

[Barry Sayer]

Dam ! That's unlucky 😕 

The warnings ⚠️ about lipos have been around for many years.....not that I pay any attention......but what if.

 

A Pyrex dish with lid would be good to contain the carnage?

[Pseudotectonic]

@Barry Sayer you might have made yourself a literal grenade because they don't withstand LiPo fire for sure

[EDcase]

Remember that airsoft batteries are much smaller (fewer cells) than in the videos above.

While they can spit fire or pop it wouldn't be as violent as seen in those videos.

 

I think charging a 7.4v battery in an old cooking pot (without lid) would contain any fire as long as there isn't anything flammable too close.

11.1v Li-Po's would need a slightly bigger container but not much.

 

This also shows how important it is to get a GOOD intelligent charger that would stop charging when the battery is full or if there is a problem.

 

 

 

Edited September 28 by EDcase

[Barry Sayer]

56 minutes ago, Pseudotectonic said:

@Barry Sayer you might have made yourself a literal grenade because they don't withstand LiPo fire for sure

Less portable than the EG67 😁

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, Pseudotectonic said:

@Barry Sayer you might have made yourself a literal grenade because they don't withstand LiPo fire for sure

 

Maaaaybe. Pyrex is rated to 300C, and it wouldn't be pressure sealed. It might crack, but I can't see why it would explode.  I'd trust it over a wooden table, for example.

 

I use a bag placed in thick ceramic pie dish, to hopefully vent any flames upwards.

 

 

15 hours ago, Pseudotectonic said:

what are you supposed to be "keeping an eye on" when you are charging the LiPo, indoors?

 

I have the same question.  You're either bagging/boxing and hoping, or you're watching and touching (risking your eyes and fingers).  Given the number of other lithium batteries that we're near constantly using (laptops, tablets, phones) it's not something that I want to obsess over too much.

[Tackle]

I keep a couple of old metal roasting dishes for this purpose.

[Rogerborg]

6 minutes ago, Tackle said:

I keep a couple of old metal roasting dishes for this purpose.

 

Deep metal loaf pans are my alternative solution, whichever is closest to hand.

[Speedy Sloth]

This feels very much like something was wrong prior to charging. Batteries don't go up in flames randomly, it's charging when something is wrong that causes it.

 

I've moved to life batteries as they just seem a battery tech overall than lipo, you lose a little power density but gain stability and a bit of safety back. (But should still treat them like a hazard)

 

Based on the amount of cars I've heard being driven around screaming something is wrong (especially brakes) it's seems like people do forgot to check details when it's obvious even now days. (Not saying your father did but as a country people do seem to not take safety as important)

Edited October 2 by Speedy Sloth

[Sewdhull]

Life batteries are great, their main advantage is that they don't self sustain a fire like lipos do, you need extra outside heat to get them to keep burning after you have stuck a nail through them and they are also more tolerant to charging or discharging abuse.

They work fine in airsoft guns, I got a cheap one and its perfectly servicable.