Is all fps Equal?

[tk2010]

My gun was shooting at 1.09j with a 105 spring and 6.03 brass barrel.

 

The gun was accurate and straight with minimal power variations.

 

I changed out the barrel for a SS 6.02 zci and obviously the FPS went up to 1.33j.

 

I swapped out the spring to a 90 and the power settled around 1.06j but the BBs don't seem to be as punchy.

 

Is FPS equal? or would a loser bore and stronger spring be better then a tighter bite and weaker spring.

[Cr0-Magnon]

"punchy" based on what? Just sound?

[tk2010]

22 minutes ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

"punchy" based on what? Just sound?

Seemed to be flying straighter and yeah I remember them hitting harder.

 

Its probably in my mind but I wanted to know the science behind it

 

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, tk2010 said:

My gun was shooting at 1.09j with a 105 spring and 6.03 brass barrel.

 

The gun was accurate and straight with minimal power variations.

 

So why did you change it?

 

 

19 minutes ago, tk2010 said:

Seemed to be flying straighter and yeah I remember them hitting harder.

 

Its probably in my mind but I wanted to know the science behind it

 

 

It's probably more to do with the specifics of the barrel and hop rubber than anything else. Joules are joules, FPS is FPS.

[ak2m4]

1.09j to 1.33j is a pretty big jump, was the new ZCI the same length as the stock?  Have you measured your stock barrel inner diameter?   From my recent tests, one thing for sure is very few inner barrels are actually what they say they are. 

[Colin Allen]

Obviously, there is a slight power and velocity difference between 1.06J and 1.09J; however, it should not really be noticeable.  Are the barrels the same length or is one significantly longer than the other?  The 0.24J power change is pretty hard to explain unless you have gone from a short, wide bore barrel to a long, tighter bore barrel.

A weaker spring and a tighter barrel is usually better as it puts less stress on the gearbox, unless the combination of a weak spring and a fast motor/gear set leads to overspin, which can be cured with an AB mosfet anyway.

[RostokMcSpoons]

I'm sure there's going to be a psychological aspect, when you see your gat shooting like a laser it does feel very satisfying.  When it is spraying around all over the place it... Not so much.

 

But apart from that, all FPS are the same.

 

Except TM FPS.  They are MAGICAL. 😋

[Sewdhull]

If you use a weaker spring it's likely that the piston won't whack the cylinder as hard making less sound giving you the impression it's less powerful than the brass barrel.

Your brass barrel may not have been 6.03 even if it says it is.

It sounds like all is working as you'd like so now's the time to play.

[Tommikka]

4 hours ago, tk2010 said:

My gun was shooting at 1.09j with a 105 spring and 6.03 brass barrel.

 

The gun was accurate and straight with minimal power variations.

 

I changed out the barrel for a SS 6.02 zci and obviously the FPS went up to 1.33j.

 

I swapped out the spring to a 90 and the power settled around 1.06j but the BBs don't seem to be as punchy.

 

Is FPS equal? or would a loser bore and stronger spring be better then a tighter bite and weaker spring.

There are a lot of factors that have an effect on the physics of a ball being propelled out of a barrel 

 

FPS is the velocity in ‘Feet per second’ of the projective, normally measured at the point of exit from the barrel

 

Joules are the measurement of the energy, and are calculated using the velocity and weight of the projectile

(Chronographs measure the velocity and particular chronographs can be set to display a joules value based on set weights of BBs

 

Beginning with the initial force imparted in the chamber from the spring and cushion of air, the projectile then accelerates along the barrel but also has friction resistance along the way.

 

It seems to be common sense to assume that as the energy being put into the BB is the same, that a heavier BB would be slower (taking more force to push the heavier weight) and resulting in the same energy coming out - but in reality the combination of everything can vary the results - and ‘joule creep’ becomes a term - that by changing one factor (the BB) can result in a greater resultant energy as the BB exits the barrel

 

………..

 

Loose (overbore) / tight (underbore) / matched bores all have their own effect inside the barrel ……. And then even the flight can have different experiences 

 

My world is paintball, and we have those who swear by all of over/under/matched bores - and then we have different circumstances on how the paintball itself acts in the barrel - 

 

With overbore a paintball could float on a cushion of air or bounce around - some of the air is ‘wasted’ but still contributes to how the ball flies

With underbore a paintball could be squashed (and if excessive can break) - when the paintball squeezes its way through the barrel all of the air behind it contributes to the energy imparted

 

 

…….

 

No matter whether it’s a plastic BB or a gelatine paintball, the initial muzzle velocity is just the start (and is the metric that complies with the rules)

 

The remaining velocity / energy upon impact varies based on its flight along the way. Which can also depend on how it went through the barrel and anything such as a hop up.

The energy could be maintained in flight, or it could quickly drop.

Optimum spin could maintain a ‘straight’ flight that hits (almost) where you pointed up to a set range then quickly drop, or you have a predictable curve that you need to compensate for at the targeted range  - or it could just spray wildly in various random directions 

[tk2010]

18 hours ago, Tommikka said:

There are a lot of factors that have an effect on the physics of a ball being propelled out of a barrel 

 

FPS is the velocity in ‘Feet per second’ of the projective, normally measured at the point of exit from the barrel

 

Joules are the measurement of the energy, and are calculated using the velocity and weight of the projectile

(Chronographs measure the velocity and particular chronographs can be set to display a joules value based on set weights of BBs

 

Beginning with the initial force imparted in the chamber from the spring and cushion of air, the projectile then accelerates along the barrel but also has friction resistance along the way.

 

It seems to be common sense to assume that as the energy being put into the BB is the same, that a heavier BB would be slower (taking more force to push the heavier weight) and resulting in the same energy coming out - but in reality the combination of everything can vary the results - and ‘joule creep’ becomes a term - that by changing one factor (the BB) can result in a greater resultant energy as the BB exits the barrel

 

………..

 

Loose (overbore) / tight (underbore) / matched bores all have their own effect inside the barrel ……. And then even the flight can have different experiences 

 

My world is paintball, and we have those who swear by all of over/under/matched bores - and then we have different circumstances on how the paintball itself acts in the barrel - 

 

With overbore a paintball could float on a cushion of air or bounce around - some of the air is ‘wasted’ but still contributes to how the ball flies

With underbore a paintball could be squashed (and if excessive can break) - when the paintball squeezes its way through the barrel all of the air behind it contributes to the energy imparted

 

 

…….

 

No matter whether it’s a plastic BB or a gelatine paintball, the initial muzzle velocity is just the start (and is the metric that complies with the rules)

 

The remaining velocity / energy upon impact varies based on its flight along the way. Which can also depend on how it went through the barrel and anything such as a hop up.

The energy could be maintained in flight, or it could quickly drop.

Optimum spin could maintain a ‘straight’ flight that hits (almost) where you pointed up to a set range then quickly drop, or you have a predictable curve that you need to compensate for at the targeted range  - or it could just spray wildly in various random directions 

Thanks, interesting reply.

 

I am going to play around with the variations of the two and see which one I like more

[Dan Robinson]

21 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Except TM FPS.  They are MAGICAL

 

That'll be the "divine wind" imparted on the BB by the super Ninja Bucking that Gaijin clones are not allowed to use.  They're a sneaky mercenary lot over there.  Trust me - I know.

[Rogerborg]

22 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Except TM FPS.  They are MAGICAL. 😋

 

It do be true though.

 

[Colin Allen]

3 hours ago, Quicker said:

Based on my little understanding, not all FPS (feet per second) levels are equal in airsoft. FPS determines the velocity at which a BB pellet is propelled from an airsoft gun. Different airsoft games and events may have specific FPS limits, and certain types of airsoft guns have different FPS ranges.

For example, most indoor CQB (Close Quarters Battle) fields have lower FPS limits (usually around 350 FPS) to ensure player safety in tighter environments. On the other hand, outdoor fields or long-range events may have higher FPS limits (such as 400-450 FPS) to accommodate for longer engagement distances.

Different countries and regions also have their own specific regulations regarding airsoft gun FPS limits. It's important to check and adhere to the specific rules and limits set by the governing bodies or organizations where you are playing airsoft.

I hope you find this helpful.
Thanks.

Thanks, ChatGPT.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

5 hours ago, Quicker said:

Based on my little understanding, not all FPS (feet per second) levels are equal in airsoft.

And of course 350fps with a .20 BB will break your rif or your fingers if fired from an HPA set-up.  There's a full account on here if you care to look.  😉

[Colin Allen]

2 minutes ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

And of course 350fps with a .20 BB will break your rif or your fingers if fired from an HPA set-up.  There's a full account on here if you care to look.  😉

`Ah, yes!  I had completely forgotten about the pataphysics of HPA according to that particular individual.

[Lozart]

18 hours ago, Quicker said:

Based on my little understanding, not all FPS (feet per second) levels are equal in airsoft. FPS determines the velocity at which a BB pellet is propelled from an airsoft gun. Different airsoft games and events may have specific FPS limits, and certain types of airsoft guns have different FPS ranges.

For example, most indoor CQB (Close Quarters Battle) fields have lower FPS limits (usually around 350 FPS) to ensure player safety in tighter environments. On the other hand, outdoor fields or long-range events may have higher FPS limits (such as 400-450 FPS) to accommodate for longer engagement distances.

Different countries and regions also have their own specific regulations regarding airsoft gun FPS limits. It's important to check and adhere to the specific rules and limits set by the governing bodies or organizations where you are playing airsoft.

I hope you find this helpful.
Thanks.

 

Good bot!

[Dan Robinson]

13 hours ago, Colin Allen said:

`Ah, yes!  I had completely forgotten about the pataphysics of HPA according to that particular individual.

 

I miss him.   His posts were hilarious. 

[Pseudotectonic]

At any given FPS, the BB can be either hopped or no hopped

 

the hopped BB will travel a bit further, if that is what OP is asking

[RostokMcSpoons]

1 hour ago, Pseudotectonic said:

At any given FPS, the BB can be either hopped or no hopped

 

the hopped BB will travel a bit further, if that is what OP is asking

Nope.  (as in - no, that's not what the OP was asking) 

 

On 18/01/2024 at 20:07, Sewdhull said:

If you use a weaker spring it's likely that the piston won't whack the cylinder as hard making less sound giving you the impression it's less powerful than the brass barrel.

 

I'm thinking there might be some mileage in this - a change in the mechanical noise might make quite a psychological impact on the firer.

Edited January 20 by RostokMcSpoons

[Sewdhull]

Without hop a BB will hit the ground after half a second unless you lob it.

 

Velocity is lost fastest at higher values.

 

1.14J on a .2 falls to the ground after 100ft, with hop 165ft.

A .3 will travel another 10ft hopped.

 

The main advantage for hop and BB mass is the longer time with a small drop, a .2 dropping a foot after 60ft unhopped and nearly 135ft hopped.

A .3 will get another 10ft.

Also a heavier BB arrives at its target sooner past 60ft.

 

Edited January 20 by Sewdhull
Adding reference to the ATP