First Aid Kits

[Jacob Wright]

Following on from a conversation with some players, just thought I'd see what people are carrying in the way of first aid kits at game days?

 

Do you carry one or just leave it to the site? Does anyone carry more than a first aid kit?

[Haru]

honestly wish i had one last time i went

[Chev Chelios]

I carry a BFG IFAK with the supplied kit just in case someone starts bleeding I can use the bandages to clean up my sick while checking the area for potential dangers/hazards while bringing the accident to everyone's attention.

[Jacob Wright]

7 minutes ago, Haru said:

honestly wish i had one last time i went

For any particular reason?

 

4 minutes ago, Chev Chelios said:

I carry a BFG IFAK with the supplied kit just in case someone starts bleeding I can use the bandages to clean up my sick while checking the area for potential dangers/hazards while bringing the accident to everyone's attention.

Yeah that seems reasonable 😂

[SSPKali]

Yes, a small one in an LBX pouch. I have even sewn the top bellows part closed on the pouch to stop it flopping about - this would all fit in a combat trouser pocket easy.

 

Plasters

Compeed

Paracetamol x4

Nurofen x4

Asprin x1

Immodium x4

Saline wash pods x2

4” burn dressing

Eye dressing x2

Z-fold gauze

Tweezers

Tick Key

Gloves

4” Israeli bandage, outer removed (still in inner vacpac - can use for chest seal)  

External:

Shears

Roll of electrical tape

 

Enough to treat the main ailments - hangover, dodgy footware and under cooked burgers 🤢

 

Burnshield dressing for pyro users not good at the counting…

 

Gauze can be used to pack serious wounds, at junctions and on limbs - much more useful than a TQ. You just need to poke it in with a finger 😳

 

One plea from me: get some basic training (FA at Work, StJohns, Red ross) and DON’T BUY FAKE TORNIQUETS FROM EBAY!!!! 😂

Edited August 24, 2023 by SSPKali
Missed a couple of bits off!

[Haru]

1 hour ago, Jacob Wright said:

For any particular reason?

 

i had a nasty gash on my knee 2 weeks ago when i tried to slide

[C-Diddy]

IFAK on my belt kit with plasters, a few small dressings, small bandages, wound closure strips, sterile water etc, and a larger, better stocked first aid kit I keep in my daysack back at the safezone. I do also have an FFD but, to be fair, that's probably overkill. 

 

I also have paracetamol, ibuprofen and a shit ton of electrical tape because you can fix anything with the correct application and quantity. 

 

Like @SSPKali says, some basic first aid training is highly recommended as it's just good life skills and you never know. Also, again as touched on in the same post, the CAT tourniquets on eBay or Amazon are as much use as tits on a fish, and if you do have a real one, you'll probably do more harm than good if you use it. Call 999 instead. 

[Emergencychimps]

I have a couple. 

 

1 Is your typical plasters, ibuprofen, paracetamol, competed, immodium, tissues. Your booboo one basically. Any minor injuries, ailments etc that you wouldn't need to inform a marshall about and just deal with yourself. It's come in super useful especially some pain meds that a friend had to use when his back went out at a very remote 3 day milsim. He could barely crawl, 24 hours later, some pain meds and hot water bottles and he could then at least walk and sort himself to be able to get home. 

 

My other is a full on tq, hemostatic combat gauze, Israeli bandage etc. I do some real steel shooting and while theres a massive focus on safety, accidents happen. A lot of my kit is used for both hobbies and it's a pain to take it off, the weight isn't much and it means it's always there. 

 

I'm not qualified, but I have done some research on the usage and I figure if I've been shot (by accident) I'd rather some have a vague idea and the kit than nothing at all. My view is that this isn't treatment, it's hoping to do enough to keep someone alive until they can be treated by real medical people. 

 

I'd like a couple more full on life saver ones, primarily for the car should I be in or near a serious incident 

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, SSPKali said:

One plea from me: get some basic training (FA at Work, StJohns, Red ross) and DON’T BUY FAKE TORNIQUETS FROM EBAY!!!! 😂

This times infinity. There's no point in carrying stuff you're not qualified to use as it adds weight and you could cause more problems for the patient if you don't know what you're doing

[Lozart]

I have a travel FA kit in the boot of my car with all the usual stuff but the point is (as alluded to by others), unless you are trained and indeed certified, while most people would be happy to accept basic assistance the site should have nominated, trained and most importantly, insured First Aiders on site.

 

If you render aid and something does go wrong then not only are you potentially opening the site up to a liability claim, you also open yourself to one. I know we don't live in quite the litigious society that exists in the US but it DOES happen.

[Haru]

46 minutes ago, Lozart said:

I have a travel FA kit in the boot of my car with all the usual stuff but the point is (as alluded to by others), unless you are trained and indeed certified, while most people would be happy to accept basic assistance the site should have nominated, trained and most importantly, insured First Aiders on site.

 

If you render aid and something does go wrong then not only are you potentially opening the site up to a liability claim, you also open yourself to one. I know we don't live in quite the litigious society that exists in the US but it DOES happen.

good thing i took that SIA course last summer

[Lozart]

3 minutes ago, Haru said:

good thing i took that SIA course last summer

 

Does SIA even cover first aid? I wouldn't trust half the doormen I know to put on a Band Aid let alone anything more serious!

[hunter511]

Backing up the above about training..... little terrifies me more than someone with all the gear and no idea trying to use a TQ on some poor bugger who's already injured.

 

Personally I carry some basics I'm qualified to use gloves, FFD, TQ, chest seals and quickclot but realistically short of something going turbo mega wrong Im gonna let the site first aiders/ambulance deal with anything.

[Cannonfodder]

33 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Does SIA even cover first aid? I wouldn't trust half the doormen I know to put on a Band Aid let alone anything more serious!

Never had any 1st aid training when I got my licence. I'll find out if things have changed when I renew it later this year

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

If you render aid and something does go wrong then not only are you potentially opening the site up to a liability claim, you also open yourself to one. I know we don't live in quite the litigious society that exists in the US but it DOES happen.

 

Does it?  I'd be genuinely fascinated to see UK case law on that.  There may be some, I haven't checked for a while.

 

This is as good a time as any to remind airsoft marshals that you are adopting a personal duty of care to the players, regardless of whether you know that, or even if you're being paid a penny.  If you see something going badly wrong and don't act to stop it, you can personally be on the hook: see Vowles vs Evans.

 

The main priority at a typical airsoft site will be to get a casualty out of the woods and to an area where they can receive better / professional aid.

 

There are three exceptions that spring to mind:

 

1. They're bleeding badly. But with geardos around, there's going something to hand that you can use to staunch it or form a tourniquet. Yes, there's the attendant risks of making it worse if you mess it up, which is why I agree that training trumps equipment.

 

2. Charlie cops a saucepan in the throat. That means a set of airways in various sizes, and someone who actually knows how to use them.  I used to carry said set when I did group motorcycle ride-outs (where there's a fair chance of a passing medical professional stopping to assist), but it's such an edge case for airsoft that it doesn't seem worthwhile.

 

3. Cardiovascular, and specifically a myocardial infarction. The one thing I always carry for that, everywhere, is aspirin, and I'd advocate it for everyone. eBay "keyring pill holder" or similar, buy a bunch, pop a couple of aspirin in them and pass them out to friends and family, please.

[Haru]

35 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

Never had any 1st aid training when I got my licence. I'll find out if things have changed when I renew it later this year

New SIAs are required to learn First Aid at work.

[Lozart]

54 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Does it?  I'd be genuinely fascinated to see UK case law on that.  There may be some, I haven't checked for a while.

 

This is as good a time as any to remind airsoft marshals that you are adopting a personal duty of care to the players, regardless of whether you know that, or even if you're being paid a penny.  If you see something going badly wrong and don't act to stop it, you can personally be on the hook: see Vowles vs Evans.

 

From UK law.co.uk:

 

What is negligent first aid?

Negligent first refers to cases where this type of treatment is given in a manner that is below acceptable standards or harmful.

 

Can first aiders be held liable?

If you have suffered preventable harm because you were administered first aid that you think was negligent call our advisors who will assess your case for free. 

 

Not case law example but it would appear that there is potential for a negligence claim.

[Cannonfodder]

That to me is worrying. If it becomes a common occurrence there may be occasions where critical aid is either delayed or not given due to fear of possible litigation 

[SSPKali]

3 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

That to me is worrying. If it becomes a common occurrence there may be occasions where critical aid is either delayed or not given due to fear of possible litigation 

I was told when training to FREC3 that as long as you didn’t go beyond your training (start trying open heart surgery in the safe zone) you would be safe.

 

Basic life saving training is great as is noting down time of incident, what the incident was (fell from X meters / hit by car approx 20mph / fat sod tried running for the flag 😂), last intake (food/drink) and output, take the pulse every 5mins and note down with time. Plus any medical history, medication, etc.

 

When the grown ups arrive tell them you have info to hand over and go through the details. Can save a lot of time and prevent duplication.

 

Training over gear most of the time…or you end up with a pack like this (everything except an AED!) GoRuck GR1 plus admin pocket and side pockets!

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by SSPKali

[Duff Beer]

I carry a Tasmanian Tiger IFAK pouch on my belt with an Israeli Bandage, Quick Clot, burn gel (seen many a burnt finger from pyro), gloves, a normal bandage, and some plasters.

 

Having knelt down on all sorts, and having seen Dog Soldiers one too many times I carry it to stop proper bleeding enough to get out of the woods/game zone.  Considering the size of some sites it could take 10 minutes to get first aid to me, and that’s no bueno for a decent bleed.  It’s for me to make sure I’m okay, or for someone else to do the same.  It doesn’t have anything in it that can cause me proper harm before the marshals get there.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, Lozart said:

Not case law example but it would appear that there is potential for a negligence claim.

 

There's always potential for an ambulance chaser to bill you for their time, but I strongly suspect that if they prevail against an untrained good Samaritan (rather than a professional whose indemnity insurance settles out of court), then it'll be the first time.  I'm sure there will be a first time, eventually - I mean, nobody thought unpaid amateur volunteer referees would be held liable, until Vowles - but it's not a concern that would put me off having a go if someone is spurting or choking or taking a no-pulse-sleep.

[Haru]

14 minutes ago, Duff Beer said:

having seen Dog Soldiers one too many times

 

 

great movie

[Tackle]

As has been said, it's all very well to load up with the fancy kit, but knowing how to use it is far more important, so if ever offered first aid courses on any level, especially if works paying for them, take them, you might make all the difference one day. 

To the same degree, within reason, someone with training can utilise all sorts of non medical items in order to stabilise a situation, case in point, when a colleague of mine had been shot, properly shot lol, standard wound dressings wouldn't do the job, but packing the wound with my own Compton & Webb beret stopped him bleeding out. 

Fucker still owes me a new beret 🤬

[gavinkempsell]

Been a First aider in my work for nearly 20 years now, all because a colleague had a seizure close to the end of our shift, I only had my basic TA training from over a decade previously and managed to help/avoid the situation worsening then realized there were no first aiders on our nightshift. Kinda embarassed to say I don't carry a first aid kit of any kind outside of working hours.

 

Time I changed that...

Edited August 24, 2023 by gavinkempsell

[Duff Beer]

7 minutes ago, Tackle said:

As has been said, it's all very well to load up with the fancy kit, but knowing how to use it is far more important, so if ever offered first aid courses on any level, especially if works paying for them, take them, you might make all the difference one day. 

To the same degree, within reason, someone with training can utilise all sorts of non medical items in order to stabilise a situation, case in point, when a colleague of mine had been shot, properly shot lol, standard wound dressings wouldn't do the job, but packing the wound with my own Compton & Webb beret stopped him bleeding out. 

Fucker still owes me a new beret 🤬

Ever since Maddox fell out the back of the Landy at Dover onto his M4 I’ve carried an IFAK.  I can still the subcutaneous fat from the wound