Rifle choice

[Halo]

Hey guys,

 

I’m Carl, 42 and went to Fubar Bundy and discovered my new found midlife crises hobby 😃!

 

The second I picked one of these guns up I was sold!

 

Can you help me decide which gun to buy between these:

 

 

https://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/product/kwa-ronin-t10-aeg-3-0/

 

https://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/product/tokyo-marui-tm416-delta-custom-next-gen-recoil/

 

https://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/product/gbls-das-gdr-15-m4-aeg-hybrid/

 

https://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/product/vfc-avalon-samurai-edge-aeg-black/

 

I don’t want to be running in crazy Rambo full auto style, more tactical and semi auto, the DAS has a 90 meter effective range so can be a sniper too but only holds 60 rounds.  Think the T10 can hold 370 rnd mags

 

ill be play milsim and normal games 

 

I do like:

 

Recoil

Last round empty effect

easy to work with, customise

Gate Titan upgrade kit (saw a demo)

 

cheers 

[Rogerborg]

Hi Carl, we've all been there with that first game buzz.

 

However, we've also seen the classifieds full of "as new, never skirmished" guns as folks' enthusiasm for purchasing exceeds that for playing, especially over the winter months.

 

I'll skip the tl;dr physics-vs-airsoft-magic, and given your requirements, just point you at this.

 

 

 

Now back to the scheduled "Buy a TM recoil" posts.  

 

[heroshark]

I very much doubt 90m effective range no matter how much money you dump unto a gun, even upped to dmr levels with heavy ammo. Even experienced bolty users with well tuned rifles will tell you 90m shots are not easy to make even on a stationary target consistently. 

[Halo]

Yeah it’s also on my mind to buy used so I can suffer the same fate but I’m not versed in what I’m buying or able to check it over properly.  I’ve my first match on Sunday so I’ll hire unless something pops up, local shop doesn’t have them in stock right away, the DAS could be here in 2 days though but like you say…..

 

I have noticed that the classifieds are pretty active here so if I can whittle my targets down I’d be happy to look at used options 🙂

30 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Hi Carl, we've all been there with that first game buzz.

 

However, we've also seen the classifieds full of "as new, never skirmished" guns as folks' enthusiasm for purchasing exceeds that for playing, especially over the winter months.

 

I'll skip the tl;dr physics-vs-airsoft-magic, and given your requirements, just point you at this.

 

 

 

Now back to the scheduled "Buy a TM recoil" posts.  

 

Yeah it’s also on my mind to buy used so I can suffer the same fate but I’m not versed in what I’m buying or able to check it over properly.  I’ve my first match on Sunday so I’ll hire unless something pops up, local shop doesn’t have them in stock right away, the DAS could be here in 2 days though but like you say…..

 

I have noticed that the classifieds are pretty active here so if I can whittle my targets down I’d be happy to look at used options 🙂

[EDcase]

Welcome Carl (you youngster)

 

All those in your list are good but are you sure you want to sink that kind of money into the hobby straight away?

As Roger said, there are quite a few people selling their purchases for various reasons soon after getting them.

 

Do a search for 'best starter gun' and read some of the previous posts on the subject.

You can get a decent shooting gun for under £200 and although it won't have recoil or last round hold you'll get some good experience and better able to decide what to buy next.

Plus its always good to keep your first gun as a backup.

 

EDIT:  Buying second hand may not be a good choice without a bit more experience.  If you get something that isn't performing well or has a problem you won't know about it or be able to fix it immediately.  Better to get something that has a known performance and with more experience you'll know what looks or sounds suspicious in a sale.

 

We always advise to rent for your first 3 games so you can be registered with UKARA and it will give you some experience and influence your future choice of weapon...

Having a UKARA number also allows you to buy a realistic looking gun.

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by EDcase

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

TBH you don't really know what you want until you've played a bit.  

 

You also need a back up rifle.

 

If you buy a cheap basic starter rif, you can learn the game and have a play with other people's rifs in game.  That will probably tell you what you want to buy as a 'serious' rif.  You can then keep the starter as a spare.

 

Be warned though.  A proper big boys rif will probably be twice the weight of a basic Combat Machine, four times the price, and only be half as reliable.  

 

TBH, I only know one airsofter with only one rif, and he is a seriously odd dude.

[EDcase]

You don't necessarily have  to get a plastic rifle as the first.  There are many sub £200 metal ones that perform perfectly well for starting out.

CYMA, JG and SpecnaArms are well regarded in the bang-for-buck ratio.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

34 minutes ago, EDcase said:

You don't necessarily have  to get a plastic rifle as the first.  There are many sub £200 metal ones that perform perfectly well for starting out.

CYMA, JG and SpecnaArms are well regarded in the bang-for-buck ratio.

Very true!

 

Not sure how I didn't think of those.  I only own four of the things and got another one today...  

[Halo]

Loved the video btw 😃

[Halo]

More than happy to get something lower end……but can’t be doing with any plastic feel if I can help it.  My budgets open, I’d rather avoid buying multiple guns and then reaching one I wished I’d have known to but from the get go because it  has features I might like.

 

£400 for a T10 any objections there?  I’d sell it for what £300 later if it’s not for me?  Are there things that need upgrading, does that gun allow for the 370 rnd mags?

 

in that video the chap says not to get a gate Titan but the gate warfet, would that work in the T10?

[Guest Mr. No_Face]

3 hours ago, Halo said:

More than happy to get something lower end……but can’t be doing with any plastic feel if I can help it.  My budgets open, I’d rather avoid buying multiple guns and then reaching one I wished I’d have known to but from the get go because it  has features I might like.

 

£400 for a T10 any objections there?  I’d sell it for what £300 later if it’s not for me?  Are there things that need upgrading, does that gun allow for the 370 rnd mags?

 

in that video the chap says not to get a gate Titan but the gate warfet, would that work in the T10?

 

£400 for your first rig is a fair bit of cheddar but it seems like you have a flexible budget so with that being said; I own a Ronin TK45c and often swap with my buddie's T10 and It functions amazingly straight out of the box. One of those aegs out there that you don't immediately have to upgrade. So I wouldn't just yet until you've had a few games and decided this sport is for you.

 

But yeah.. the Ronin T10 is a good choice in my opinion. It's got some good weight and doesn't feel like a toy, even more so when you start spicing it up with attachments.

 

- In regard to 370 rnd mags. My mate ran a G&G raider M4 V1 300 rnd high cap as back up but I've never seen him actually use it since he's never needed to.  

You could always buy a pack of MS120 mid caps that come in 3 for a fair price. There's no shortage of those anywhere.

 

[heroshark]

I don't see anything wrong with getting a high end Rif to start but that said it is risky. I only own one AEG rifle and it's a TM recoil, maybe I'm a seriously odd dude. They are one of the most reliable platforms that have a bolt lock and stop on empty. That said I haven't used it for a few years. One thing that gets me with the tm ngrs is the lack of feedback from releasing the bolt lock. Friend of mine had the das had nothing but feed issues and ended up getting rid. Finding your preferred weapons is personal. I could tell you gbb pistols are the way to go cos that's my bag but it might not necessarily be yours. Some may say gbb rifles as they have the full full functionality, TM MWS is probably one of the highest regarded.

[Rogerborg]

10 hours ago, EDcase said:

Plus its always good to keep your first gun as a backup.

 

I cannot über-emphasise the importance of this.  If you turn up with one high end toy with all the bells and whistles and then find that it's in a sulk, or shooting at 0.5J, you're going to have a bad day (or no day).  I never bring fewer than two, and often as many as four primaries, whether as backups or loaners.  If I were to have one AEG, then I'd agree with @herosharkthat (especially from your list) it would be the TM every time. Clean the barrel, then leave it alone, at least until you have a backup.

 

Here's the thing, if you enjoy the actual process of playing airsoft, then you'll enjoy it with a £100 plastic fantastic.  If you don't, then no amount of recoil or lock-on-empty will change the core airsoft experience of getting shot in the back of your head by your own "team" while you're knee deep in mud.

 

I say this not to put you off, but hopefully to provoke some thoughts about what you want to get out of this hobby in the long term, after the first rush has worn off.  I'll tell you what you won't get though, which is 90m effective range out of a 1.1J gun, no matter how trick the internals are or how big the price ticket is.  

[Adolf Hamster]

8 hours ago, Halo said:

in that video the chap says not to get a gate Titan but the gate warfet, would that work in the T10?

 

i wouldn't worry about upgrades in the short-term.

 

the reason negative (at the time, he seems to have moved away from them) reccommends the warfet is because the customers he deals with (as a professional tech) generally aren't too into teching on their own guns, and a mosfet that can be hot-swapped between guns easily, or re-programmed very quickly in the field.

 

the titan is a connoisseurs component, and a whilst it's a good bit of kit. but it's not something you want in your gun unless you have the background knowledge to set it up properly (which also means having the rest of the gearbox up to code), and deal with any issues that arise.

 

 

what i would suggest as others have mentioned is to start off renting for a few games, see if you like the hobby enough to stick it out. once you have your ukara setup you'll be able to order a non 2-toned pew which is a bonus.

 

i'd hang back from dropping too much money until the honeymoon is over, the reality is that generally speaking the supermegahighend pews aren't that much better than cheaper pews because at the end of the day there's only so much precision can be extracted from what boils down to an air powered smoothbore musket. it's also worth considering that you need more than just the gun, there's batteries, chargers, magazines, loaders, ammo, eyepro, good boots (seriously, good boots are worth the effort to figure out), camo (entirely optional but generally preferred for outdoors), load carrying gear, and any optics/flashlights/lasers/bipods/slings you might want to stick on the gun.

 

if you're gonna drop £400 on the hobby then a £400 gun on its own won't be nearly as enjoyable as a £150 gun with £250 worth of various accessories, and i say that having made that exact mistake. 

[Samurai]

For years you will perform the same with a good working £100 AEG and a good working £400 one. If all the skills and gear are sorted, that's when you will be able to use the quality difference, if at all.

 

Ranges: reliably hitting targets at 50m is good for an AEG, 60m is very good. DMR-ing adds a few meters, +10 maybe. Tuned 500fps sniper rifles hit in the 70-90m range.

[Halo]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

i wouldn't worry about upgrades in the short-term.

 

the reason negative (at the time, he seems to have moved away from them) reccommends the warfet is because the customers he deals with (as a professional tech) generally aren't too into teching on their own guns, and a mosfet that can be hot-swapped between guns easily, or re-programmed very quickly in the field.

 

the titan is a connoisseurs component, and a whilst it's a good bit of kit. but it's not something you want in your gun unless you have the background knowledge to set it up properly (which also means having the rest of the gearbox up to code), and deal with any issues that arise.

 

 

what i would suggest as others have mentioned is to start off renting for a few games, see if you like the hobby enough to stick it out. once you have your ukara setup you'll be able to order a non 2-toned pew which is a bonus.

 

i'd hang back from dropping too much money until the honeymoon is over, the reality is that generally speaking the supermegahighend pews aren't that much better than cheaper pews because at the end of the day there's only so much precision can be extracted from what boils down to an air powered smoothbore musket. it's also worth considering that you need more than just the gun, there's batteries, chargers, magazines, loaders, ammo, eyepro, good boots (seriously, good boots are worth the effort to figure out), camo (entirely optional but generally preferred for outdoors), load carrying gear, and any optics/flashlights/lasers/bipods/slings you might want to stick on the gun.

 

if you're gonna drop £400 on the hobby then a £400 gun on its own won't be nearly as enjoyable as a £150 gun with £250 worth of various accessories, and i say that having made that exact mistake. 

could I ask which boots?  
 

Sounds like I’m best buying a used T10 job lot.  
 

in terms of what others have said too I did see this earlier as a nice starter setup but I’m happy to get a T10, I won’t need to change it, good FPS out of the box, recoil, lock bolt (can remember proper name) and comes recommended by Fubar but he can’t get them until later on….

 

Hire guns, I hear the logic but I’m told there’s nasty at times, if it shoots like the accuracy of a Tommy gun I’ll just get annoyed.  
 

it’s lower risk this hobby for me, I loved my 22 air rifle, was half decent shot, went laser quest for years, play until stupid o’clock (still) playing FPS games (halo, used to play PUBG too) and more recently did a zombie apocalypse experience in Sheffield with SMG Airsoft and feckin loved it, I was front of the team all the way! I’m also super competitive and positively aggressive,  I get a rush just looking at videos of what’s out there!  
 

At worse I can resale I suspect on a T10 faster than lower end stuff.

 

it’s just where can I find a nice used setup quickly……..

Edited November 4, 2021 by Halo

[Halo]

Also been drawing up a shortlist 

 

https://www.usedairsoft.co.uk/rif-s/electric-powered/tokyo-marui-416-delta-ngrs-upgraded_i32018

 

no idea on the weapons but seems a lot of cares been put into it.

 

 

If anyone spots another bundle of similar stuff please feel free to let me know

 

[concretesnail]

Of the rifs you listed in the opening post last round stop is only a feature of the tokoyo marui and the gbl.

 

It can be added electronically to the other using a leviathan mosfet and external input system to the rif and setting it up. Doing this would require that gearbox is opened and doing so often voids any form of warranty, if you wanted one.

I mention it as it seems you would like the same sort of setup I use which is very a gas system style but would like the ease of an aeg.

I use a g&g tr16 308 as I moved back to aegs from gas rifs for a slightly easier setup, now I'm balancing life and get to play less often, but some of the g&g rifs that use the new type g2 gearbox have the stop on empty and now I have that on an aeg I wouldn't be looking to not have it at any point.

[Halo]

17 minutes ago, concretesnail said:

Of the rifs you listed in the opening post last round stop is only a feature of the tokoyo marui and the gbl.

 

It can be added electronically to the other using a leviathan mosfet and external input system to the rif and setting it up. Doing this would require that gearbox is opened and doing so often voids any form of warranty, if you wanted one.

I mention it as it seems you would like the same sort of setup I use which is very a gas system style but would like the ease of an aeg.

I use a g&g tr16 308 as I moved back to aegs from gas rifs for a slightly easier setup, now I'm balancing life and get to play less often, but some of the g&g rifs that use the new type g2 gearbox have the stop on empty and now I have that on an aeg I wouldn't be looking to not have it at any point.

Oh brilliant thanks for the correction!  Your totally correct in the setup being best of gas but AEG!  The recoil is a must and that last round stop whilst yeah I know it won’t alter K/D ratio it’s just FUN!

 

I don’t see the g&g mentioned as much for some reason but what is the better gun out of yours vs the Ronin T10 special (has basic Gate inc and fast trigger)

 

Then the leviathan mosfet upgrade you mention any idea on how much that might cost?  If the T10 is the better gun might make some sense to do it, I’ll likely buy second hand there’s a hand full available on this site alone.

 

If there similar, I’ll buy your rig I think

I

 Here’s another I’d seen but the chrono is 280 whereas I thought these would be 340 out of the box normally

Edited November 4, 2021 by Halo

[heroshark]

22 minutes ago, concretesnail said:

Now I have that on an aeg I wouldn't be looking to not have it at any point.

I think this is pretty much the pinicle of every airsofters experience. But having all the good stuff that you want is never all in one gun. I loved my gbbr but hated the mags. This is why I stick to my TM pistols I know I can rely on them and they have all the functionality.

Edited November 4, 2021 by heroshark

[Halo]

btw I appreciate every comment you guys have sent, great forum really nice vibe which is kinda refreshing .  I’m a straight talker and can take it coming to me, respect it more even but some places are really toxic I’ve found for some reason 

[concretesnail]

Kwa used to have the last round stop function and recoil but they drooped the cutoff feature to free up the space to put the electronic triggers and mosfets into their gearbox design.

The g&g has the stop function but it is only in the tr16 g2 models, which off the top of my head, are the 308 variants and the knights sr series. They don't have the recoil function though in those ranges.

 

If recoil is a must have then I'd look at adding the stop function to the kwa, it's not the hardest thing to do but would require patience and opening up the gearbox; fitting a leviathan mosfet, setting it up, possibly an external control if you wanted that or having somebody do it for you. It would be something a few hundred quid to do.

[Halo]

7 minutes ago, concretesnail said:

Kwa used to have the last round stop function and recoil but they drooped the cutoff feature to free up the space to put the electronic triggers and mosfets into their gearbox design.

The g&g has the stop function but it is only in the tr16 g2 models, which off the top of my head, are the 308 variants and the knights sr series. They don't have the recoil function though in those ranges.

 

If recoil is a must have then I'd look at adding the stop function to the kwa, it's not the hardest thing to do but would require patience and opening up the gearbox; fitting a leviathan mosfet, setting it up, possibly an external control if you wanted that or having somebody do it for you. It would be something a few hundred quid to do.

Awesome working on a T10 deal as we speak! 

[Rogerborg]

14 minutes ago, Halo said:

btw I appreciate every comment you guys have sent, great forum really nice vibe which is kinda refreshing .  I’m a straight talker and can take it coming to me, respect it more even but some places are really toxic I’ve found for some reason 

 

We're quite friendly here, and where we disagree, it's generally respectfully, understanding that there's no single right answers.

 

And there are few wrong answers or dumb choices either, because spending even three figures on any toy gun for playing pretend soldiers is such a daft thing to do in the first place.  Whatever puts the biggest smile on your face is the right choice for you, that's the only criteria that really matters at the end of the day.

 

I would steer clear of VFC, though. The sweary tech in that video up-thread, Luke at Negative Airsoft, seems to spend half his time sorting shagged-from-new VFCs.  Lovely externals, but the internals seem to be either peaches or lemons.

[concretesnail]

"Smile on your face...." that's right in the money as tonwhat counts.

 

I'd so second the steering clear of vfc unless you want to git something and start again internally.