80's 90's dump poutch?

[the guru]

my question to solders, what did you do with you empty mags in combat?

I wouldn't have thought they'd just be dropped and left behind, but to as far as I know PLCE kit didn't have a  "dump pouch".

so did you just put you empties back in you mag pouch or bodge up one from a utility or respirator bag? or what did you do on ops?        

[Tackle]

80's we never had dump pouches, just stuck them back in the mag pouch, upside down so you didn't pull an empty one out instead of a full one.

TBH when people talk about high speed low drag kit, 58' pattern was the complete opposite, high drag low speed with lots of clumsy fumbling in the dark 😱

Reminds me of a bird I used to go out with 🐷

[Cannonfodder]

From what I've been told empty mags were chucked inside your half zipped up smock. Dropping empty mags was a surefire way of getting a major bollocking and beasting

[Shamal]

16 minutes ago, Tackle said:

 lots of clumsy fumbling in the dark 

Reminds me of a bird I used to go out with 🐷

Yeah but was that you or her?? 

🙂

[Tackle]

30 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

From what I've been told empty mags were chucked inside your half zipped up smock. Dropping empty mags was a surefire way of getting a major bollocking and beasting

Yeah, as was modifying kit, you'd get jumped on from a great height when it got spotted, which it would thanks to numerous bs inspections☹️

 

28 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Yeah but was that you or her?? 

🙂

6 of one & half a dozen of the other I reckon, but in my defense I was a very very young man, long before I became the goddam sexual tyranasaur I am today 😏 

[Shamal]

7 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Yeah, as was modifying kit, you'd get jumped on from a great height when it got spotted, which it would thanks to numerous bs inspections☹️

 

6 of one & half a dozen of the other I reckon, but in my defense I was a very very young man, long before I became the goddam sexual tyranasaur I am today 😏 

 

Haha. 😄

I think i would have been a stegosaurus. That is the very horny one isn't it? Lol

 

[Cannonfodder]

21 minutes ago, Tackle said:

☹️ the goddam sexual tyranasaur I am today 

 

 

So your sex life died a fire death 65 million years ago? 😁 

 

14 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Haha. 😄

I think i would have been a stegosaurus. That is the very horny one isn't it? Lol

 

I think you mean Triceratops 

This is a Stegosaurus. A fat vegetarian 

 

Yes I'm a geology nerd

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

From what I've been told empty mags were chucked inside your half zipped up smock. Dropping empty mags was a surefire way of getting a major bollocking and beasting

Was often called a ‘Brecon Re-load’ due to using this technique on the live fire range up at Sennybridge , you had to really speed through it and you just didn’t have time to try and cram the mags back in the pouches so you just lumped them down the front of your smock .👍

[Shamal]

10 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

So your sex life died a fire death 65 million years ago? 😁 

 

I think you mean Triceratops 

This is a Stegosaurus. A fat vegetarian 

 

Yes I'm a geology nerd

Haha. Fifty percent correct for me then. (I'm no vegetarian) lol

[Johnyboy1976]

SOP to put your mags back in the pouch - under no circumstances do you drop mags as easy way for enemy to plant an IED and use a empty mag placed on top to lure you in and then bang.

[the guru]

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

From what I've been told empty mags were chucked inside your half zipped up smock. Dropping empty mags was a surefire way of getting a major bollocking and beasting

Yer I assumed that leaving mags behind was a big no no, I take it you used the draw string on the smock to keep them in.

[Druid799]

3 minutes ago, the guru said:

Yer I assumed that leaving mags behind was a big no no, I take it you used the draw string on the smock to keep them in.

You’d have the draw string tied and tucked up any way , gota look ally as fook on the range ! 

[Tackle]

2 minutes ago, the guru said:

Yer I assumed that leaving mags behind was a big no no, I take it you used the draw string on the smock to keep them in.

Yep, we were big on "blousing" back in the day, plus the 68' pattern smock had what we affectionately called a "bumflap", essentially a flap at the back that could tuck between your legs & secure on the inside front of your smock, meant for extreme weather etc, but used with the drawstring meant you could drop a family's week shopping inside your smock & drop nothing, especially handy when raiding the NAAFI for crisps & choccies 🐷

[Chev Chelios]

My old man and a lot of 2nd bat Scotsguards, had climbers chalk pouches around 82 in Hong Kong. 

[Guest Mr. No_Face]

3 hours ago, the guru said:

my question to solders, what did you do with you empty mags in combat?

I wouldn't have thought they'd just be dropped and left behind, but to as far as I know PLCE kit didn't have a  "dump pouch".

so did you just put you empties back in you mag pouch or bodge up one from a utility or respirator bag? or what did you do on ops?        

 

Your resident RM dropout here,(Never been in a combat situation) but the most logical thing to do would be to hand over any empties to a squad mate in exchange for a full mag.  They'll reload under your cover hence you get a round-robin system going to which there'll always be supplies at the ready. It's a somewhat similar principle to that scene in the movie "ZULU". where the commanding officer would command the rear rank to move forward and fire whilst the rank that just engaged reloaded.

 If for some reason you're alone than it's really up to you do decide what to do.  Flip em upside down like @Tackle said so you know which one's are empty or just pack them and go find a squad mate ASAP. 

 

EDIT: Oh 80's to 90's specifically? I'm assuming the principle would've still been the same back then since you'd always be moving with a squad.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Mr. No_Face

[the guru]

51 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Yep, we were big on "blousing" back in the day, plus the 68' pattern smock had what we affectionately called a "bumflap", essentially a flap at the back that could tuck between your legs & secure on the inside front of your smock, meant for extreme weather etc, but used with the drawstring meant you could drop a family's week shopping inside your smock & drop nothing, especially handy when raiding the NAAFI for crisps & choccies 🐷

I have a what was called a Falklands Parka might be a 68 pattern smock so I know all about the “bumflap” say what you like about Brit kit of that age it’s cracking when it’s cold, not so good when cold and wet though.

[mightyjebus]

Mags were originally designed to be C (maybe L?) class so they were originally meant to be dropped and nothing said. However some bean counter realised that they were worth about 50 pence and decided we couldn't have people dropping 50 pences all over the place.

So when you got issued a rifle and 8 mags then you had to hand in a rifle and 8 mags. SOP was to put a spent mag back into the 58 pattern webbing but since getting a 58 pattern webbing pouch open when both you and the pouch are wet and cold is about as easy as opening tins of compo when you don't have a tin opener. Most people dropped them down the front of their smock/jacket as the 58 pattern belt made a good seal around the waist so very little tended to drop out unless you took a tumble which would result in mags and boiled sweets all over the place.

after a section attack or a bit of pepper potting it was practise to lie down in a circle in all round defense (4 or 8 people usually) with you ankle crossed over the guy to the left and right. The IC or 2 IC would do a head count, ammo count and if everyone was low then alternative people in the circle would bomb up and once everyone was mag'd up again the IC or 2 IC would issue a prepare to move just before moving off again.

I never bothered with the upside down mag thing as it was pretty obvious when picking up an SLR 20 round mag or a 30 round L85A1 mag if it was empty or not. Especially the RG 5.56 mags as they seemed to be made of tin foil.

while I'm rambling another stupid thing we used to do was put a 5p on the end of the SA80 barrel, just before the flash hider, and pull the trigger and release without making the 5p drop off. If you could manage that then there was a good change that you shot would be accurate if firing a live round. (obviously this was all done with the weapon clear as keeping a 5p on a live rifle would be stupid and probably make the SA80 stop working for some unknown reason).

 

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Johnyboy1976 said:

SOP to put your mags back in the pouch - under no circumstances do you drop mags as easy way for enemy to plant an IED and use a empty mag placed on top to lure you in and then bang.

 

interesting, always figured it was just because they cost money.

[Cyberlawyer]

I missed 58 pattern webbing by a long margin, but on my combat infantryman course, down the front of the smock was the SOP taught as part of the training. While not as much as a ball ache as 58 pat it was still much quicker than getting mags back in a PLC pouch. No idea what the actual training manual said, but the front of smock method was RSM approved and everyone did it.

 

Our CQMS used to carry a bunch of ‘off the books’ mags so if you did drop one (there were a few losses every exercise) you could still sign in your full compliment of mags so you didn’t get charged for the loss.

[Stratton Oakmont]

In the 80’s,90’s a dump pouch was a ziplock plastic bag to be used on hard routine on an o.p.

[Druid799]

11 hours ago, Cyberlawyer said:

Our CQMS used to carry a bunch of ‘off the books’ mags so if you did drop one (there were a few losses every exercise) you could still sign in your full compliment of mags so you didn’t get charged for the loss.

BUT important question is how many beers did said ‘Buckshee’ magazines cost you in the Naffi ????🤔

[Tommikka]

13 hours ago, Druid799 said:

You’d have the draw string tied and tucked up any way , gota look ally as fook on the range ! 

Ally-ness saves lives

[Tommikka]

12 hours ago, mightyjebus said:

Mags were originally designed to be C (maybe L?) class so they were originally meant to be dropped and nothing said. However some bean counter realised that they were worth about 50 pence and decided we couldn't have people dropping 50 pences all over the place.

So when you got issued a rifle and 8 mags then you had to hand in a rifle and 8 mags. SOP was to put a spent mag back into the 58 pattern webbing but since getting a 58 pattern webbing pouch open when both you and the pouch are wet and cold is about as easy as opening tins of compo when you don't have a tin opener. Most people dropped them down the front of their smock/jacket as the 58 pattern belt made a good seal around the waist so very little tended to drop out unless you took a tumble which would result in mags and boiled sweets all over the place.

after a section attack or a bit of pepper potting it was practise to lie down in a circle in all round defense (4 or 8 people usually) with you ankle crossed over the guy to the left and right. The IC or 2 IC would do a head count, ammo count and if everyone was low then alternative people in the circle would bomb up and once everyone was mag'd up again the IC or 2 IC would issue a prepare to move just before moving off again.

I never bothered with the upside down mag thing as it was pretty obvious when picking up an SLR 20 round mag or a 30 round L85A1 mag if it was empty or not. Especially the RG 5.56 mags as they seemed to be made of tin foil.

while I'm rambling another stupid thing we used to do was put a 5p on the end of the SA80 barrel, just before the flash hider, and pull the trigger and release without making the 5p drop off. If you could manage that then there was a good change that you shot would be accurate if firing a live round. (obviously this was all done with the weapon clear as keeping a 5p on a live rifle would be stupid and probably make the SA80 stop working for some unknown reason).

 

C/L class don’t necessarily mean it’s use & dump.

 

A C class is a consumable - use until it’s used up (consume), don’t repair it or assess it at end of life, etc and there are no other special accounting & storage rules such as all the nice stealable kit.

So you could be expected to hang onto your C class for some time, but shouldn’t be on a charge for dropping (an empty) one in Salisbury Plain

 

Theres the other matter of resupply.  No big problem on the Plain, and also no big problem to pick them up on the Plain

Bring back empty magazines and you can reload them, don’t and you need a constant supply of them
Out in the sunny places patrolling, if you just dump them then go back to the FOB someone has to keep sending in more magazines.  Using up space, weight etc and making the RLC, AAC etc do more trips at risk of being shot at.

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

Do you really think you would get a magazine resupply if you dropped all your magazines?????

 

You would have been blasted in raf cadets for losing a magazine, outside of Hollywood and PUBG I don’t think anybody really  drops magazines

[Cyberlawyer]

3 hours ago, Druid799 said:

BUT important question is how many beers did said ‘Buckshee’ magazines cost you in the Naffi ????🤔

 

Let's just say if your CQMS is good at his job he will be owed enough favours that he will rarely be buying his own drinks. Definitely a case of looking after the troops and they will look after you.

 

2 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Bring back empty magazines and you can reload them, don’t and you need a constant supply of them

 

Originally the idea was that magazines would be shipped preloaded and disposed off after use, so every ammo resupply would also replace the mags. The yanks did this in Vietnam where the ammo was supplied in preloaded mags in the bandoleers and the mags were considered disposable. The bean counters did away with this and we instead got stripper clips in bandoleers and plastic speed loaders. The biggest problem with this was that the build quality of the magazines was not significantly improved when it was decided they were going to be reused, hence the cheap springs that were originally going to be a single use item would loose tension following repeated reuse and cause stoppages. This resulted in the fairly common practice of only loading 28 rounds in each mag (or wherever possible stealing colt mags when on joint exercises with the US as they were far superior).