Call Your Hits, or a Cautionary Tale of Marksmanship

[Skara]

3 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

it has to be of decent length though.

Yeah, we do have a couple of places on our field that we never use and are suitable for a shooting range. 70/80m long with not many trees in the way and a relatively flat surface.

 

But yeah, the point is to show people that they aren't sending real freedom seeds down range and that they are definitely not hitting that dude at 70 metres on 0.2s

[Shamal]

8 minutes ago, Skara said:

Yeah, we do have a couple of places on our field that we never use and are suitable for a shooting range. 70/80m long with not many trees in the way and a relatively flat surface.

 

But yeah, the point is to show people that they aren't sending real freedom seeds down range and that they are definitely not hitting that dude at 70 metres on 0.2s

What  the heck is a 'Freedom Seed' 🤔

Regards 

 

[leadly]

It would be interesting to see how a game would pan out if everyone had exactly the same stock RIF. I know not all guns turn out the same, even from factory but if you could guarantee a certain standard and left it to individuals to adjust the hop. I imagine you'd see plenty of people stood at 60m emptying mags at eachother without hits landing.

[emit]

The NRA(National Rifle Association) call bullets "freedom seeds" 

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Skara said:

But yeah, the point is to show people that they aren't sending real freedom seeds down range and that they are definitely not hitting that dude at 70 metres on 0.2s

 

Absolutely, the other fun fallacy is when folk seem to assume that because you're reaching out to their position that their own rounds are doing the same.

 

Which is as ridiculous as the opposite trope of assuming every gun with a scope is a sniper and therefore shoots further.

[Shamal]

3 hours ago, emit said:

The NRA(National Rifle Association) call bullets "freedom seeds" 

Well I think the NRA must be on drugs!

Thanks for explanation though.

👍🎅

[Skara]

14 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

Absolutely, the other fun fallacy is when folk seem to assume that because you're reaching out to their position that their own rounds are doing the same.

Yup that's the main argument against me when I'm plinking at them with my pistols or bolty (all loaded with 0.3s and Maple Leaf hop rubbers)

[Adolf Hamster]

37 minutes ago, Skara said:

Yup that's the main argument against me when I'm plinking at them with my pistols or bolty (all loaded with 0.3s and Maple Leaf hop rubbers)

 

yep

 

fortunately the place i'm currently playing at most of the players are pretty good at identifying the range difference.

 

only problem is i'm hesitant to explain how i'm doing it whilst not running hot lest i lose my edge

[Skara]

10 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

only problem is i'm hesitant to explain how i'm doing it whilst not running hot lest i lose my edge

I'm safe for now, nobody asks questions, they just think I'm some kind of wizard and they all stick to 0.2s because "there's more in the bag". The italian airsoft scene is quite ignorant, there are "personalities" out there who keep telling people that a 0.2g bb will have more range than a 0.3g because it's faster and therefore less influenced by external factors like wind and gravity, which makes me really happy as I get to keep my range advantage

 

They have recently discovered R-Hops though, thanks to the scam that Psionic is, so they're very slowly catching up. Thankfully the "system" is super expensive at €130 for a shitty patch, an overpriced barrel and a useless tensioner, as of now there is only ONE person in the club that runs it (albeit on 0.2s lol).

I say shitty because I've seen it, I've seen the tensioner and tested the performance against my €11 maple leaf rubbers. 10x the expense, 0x noticeable difference.

 

The main issue in this shit country is sourcing good heavy BBs, I've stocked a few Specna Edge (BLS) bags of 0.28 and 0.30 gram bbs, next year I'll see if I can buy in bulk (say one/two cartons of 0.28s, a few bags of 0.3s and some 0.4s) from abroad.

[Jaylordofwaargh]

21 hours ago, leadly said:

It would be interesting to see how a game would pan out if everyone had exactly the same stock RIF.

I would sign up for this, make me sound like a rental, but hell this is pure tactics and hop settings. Sounds like fun in a woodland setting where your engagement distance would shrink to real close fire fights

[leadly]

1 hour ago, Jaylordofwaargh said:

I would sign up for this, make me sound like a rental, but hell this is pure tactics and hop settings. Sounds like fun in a woodland setting where your engagement distance would shrink to real close fire fights

 

I suppose you could just chuck everyone a cheap spring shotgun and just go for it!

[Adolf Hamster]

16 minutes ago, leadly said:

 

I suppose you could just chuck everyone a cheap spring shotgun and just go for it!

 

Could be interesting if its done thematically, like a milsim sort of thing but with a level playing field.

[Spartan09]

On 22/12/2020 at 15:36, Cannonfodder said:

IIRC rift have a zero tolerance policy to dry firing in the safezone, anyone caught doing it is immediately sent home. While this may seem a bit harsh it only takes one person to accidentally leave 'one up the spout' for someone to have a very bad day

as a regular player at RIFT sites, i can report that they do indeed have that rule in place,  and they also enforce "mags out, weapons clear" before entering the safezone. players have to dry fire 3 times in front of marshal before allowed to enter the safezone.

 

On 21/12/2020 at 14:23, Adolf Hamster said:

this probably isn't going to come as a great revelation to most  but i figured it's an interesting story that maybe merits use as a means of reminding people about the greatest of airsoft sins- the non hit taker.

 

so to preface this we all know the cry, "call yer [redacted] hits you [redacted]", a yell of frustration at the perceived sin of a player breaking the honesty on which our game is based. it's a trap we've all fallen into and i won't deny having fallen for it many times myself.

 

of course the key word there is "perceived", to many the issue of crying foul is just as egregious as cheating in the first place, no doubt born from having been on the receiving end of such accusations and knowing that the supposed "hit" flew wide (or in my case dropped short).

oh i have been on the recieving end of those calls all too often.  nearly always from players whos shots are falling short, and a couple that flew wide.

worst one was a couple of weeks ago. i was playing at a site and defending the flag at a pumphouse building, and was inside a room where the window looking in the direction of the enemy spawn is up high, and has steps built up in front of it to allow people to step up to the window to fire, and then step down or duck either side of the window to avoid return fire, all while being inside a darkened room. ricochets and weapon hits don't count. so im stood by the window and firing at enemies as they approach and i have incoming fire, so im popping up, firing a burst, then ducking back into cover.  enemy fire is mostly dropping short, and there are only a few shots that do manage to reach my position, but are visibly ricocheting off the window or the sandbags on the window sill,  yet i still have several of the enemy team shouting at me to "take your f*****g hits"...   

fortunately for me, the head marshal is outside the building while patroling the game area, and shouts that hes watching their shots fall short, and verifies that the few shots that did make it to my position were ricocheting around the small window and not hitting me directly.

one player claimed that hes watching his tracer bbs bounce off me, and had to be corrected that his shot trajectories were hitting the sandbags first, and then bouncing up into the room, and not only that,  but i wasnt even stood at the window when he fired at me... because the marshal saw me through the doorway, in cover below the window level reloading my P90, so there was no way he was watching tracers bounce off me.

still...  i just shrugged it off that they were simply pissed off that i had such a good position, that i was able to hold the pumphouse solo for around 30 mins and stop them from capturing the flag... and that i had a killstreak long enough that if it were call of duty i could have called in a nuke  =P

On 22/12/2020 at 19:28, Adolf Hamster said:

 

Absolutely, the other fun fallacy is when folk seem to assume that because you're reaching out to their position that their own rounds are doing the same.

 

Which is as ridiculous as the opposite trope of assuming every gun with a scope is a sniper and therefore shoots further.

this...  very much this.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Spartan09
somehow managed to have the same message posted three times, but only pressed submit once

[Cannonfodder]

On 23/12/2020 at 10:32, Skara said:

The italian airsoft scene is quite ignorant, there are "personalities" out there who keep telling people that a 0.2g bb will have more range than a 0.3g because it's faster and therefore less influenced by external factors like wind and gravity, which makes me really happy as I get to keep my range advantage

 

Wow. Do these people understand basic physics and inertia? If lighter was better then surely we'd all be running around firing .12g bbs

[Skara]

21 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

Wow. Do these people understand basic physics and inertia? If lighter was better then surely we'd all be running around firing .12g bbs

Nah, they only understand their own personal physic laws because they are right and you are wrong

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, Cannonfodder said:

Wow. Do these people understand basic physics and inertia? If lighter was better then surely we'd all be running around firing .12g bbs

 

Given most sites dont understand the basics of kinetic energy as it applies to different bb weights i'd assume not.

 

Its kinda scary how easy it would be for folk who know a bit of how these things work to run as hot as they like.

 

Or even with joule creep to run hot and not even realise.

[Shamal]

47 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

 

 

Its kinda scary how easy it would be for folk who know a bit of how these things work to run as hot as they 

Isn't that the point of chrono testing?

When I started I was told that it was poss to 'spoof' the chrono by saying you had a different weight bb than you really had.

Is that what you are saying?

Only asking cause i dont know.

🤔🎅🎄

Regards 

Happy xmas

[Skara]

19 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Isn't that the point of chrono testing?

 

Yes if the chrono test is made in Joules using game weight.

 

If your site chronoes only on 0.2s (like we do here in Italy, we check Joules but on 0.2s and then wonder why all the HPA guys reach out to 75 metres ) then it can be cheated really easily.

[Adolf Hamster]

47 minutes ago, Shamal said:

Isn't that the point of chrono testing?

When I started I was told that it was poss to 'spoof' the chrono by saying you had a different weight bb than you really had.

Is that what you are saying?

Only asking cause i dont know.

🤔🎅🎄

Regards 

Happy xmas

 

 

there are a number of ways, but its kind of scary how many times i've chrono'd on the heavies (being 100% honest about the weight i'm running) only to be told "that's a little low" because the fps reading isn't 328 (even though the joule reading is saying 1j) and i've had to point out to them that the reading is correct.

 

and that's without even trying to engage things like joule creep, lying about ammo weights or sneaky reg/npas/spring twiddling shenanigans.

[Steveocee]

34 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

 

there are a number of ways, but its kind of scary how many times i've chrono'd on the heavies (being 100% honest about the weight i'm running) only to be told "that's a little low" because the fps reading isn't 328 (even though the joule reading is saying 1j) and i've had to point out to them that the reading is correct.

 

and that's without even trying to engage things like joule creep, lying about ammo weights or sneaky reg/npas/spring twiddling shenanigans.

 

I have a buddy who went to chrono his Novi SSG24 at a site. He intentionally put 0.25's in to lie about the weight he was using (site chrono's with 0.2s) and the dumbass wasn't quick witted enough at chrono to say 0.2's and he said 0.25. They converted it and he was hot so got asked to take it away. He then stuck 0.2's in and re-chrono'd and slid by due to the marignally less joule creep with the lighter ammo and came scurrying back with his coloured zip tie.

Promptly loaded said SSG up with 0.46's 😑

 

We talked him out of using it but I can't help but think site's don't help this situation. I personally ALWAYS chrono on my shooting weight and I know that all of my RIF's are under enough so that nobody dries their teeth when I go through.

 

Christ I crono'd before lockdown and commented that my 0.25's should be hitting about 290 so just under 1J and the marshall replied "we don't use joules here mate".

 

I do feel that marshalls should have some kind of recognised benchmark that covers basics, attitude and some theory rather than just if you want a free game next week.

 

[Tommikka]

34 minutes ago, Steveocee said:

 

 

I do feel that marshalls should have some kind of recognised benchmark that covers basics, attitude and some theory rather than just if you want a free game next week.

 

First prize goes to @Steveocee

[Adolf Hamster]

57 minutes ago, Steveocee said:

I do feel that marshalls should have some kind of recognised benchmark that covers basics, attitude and some theory rather than just if you want a free game next week.

 

aye it would be worthwhile.

 

but it's still a scary proposition that there's nothing but my own honesty stopping me rocking up with say the dragonuv, legitimately passing chrono on 0.2's then spending the rest of the day blasting .48's far above the site limit.

 

this is why i absolutely despise the "1fps over you're out" kind of sites, because as @Rogerborg is fond of saying "it's nothing but safety theatre" if they're not accounting for creep or chrono'ing people in-game.