Taiwangun Shipping Disruption (Brexit Related Content)

[Rogerborg]

Good news.  I shudder to think what uses were intended for those seized RIFs - it's not like it's hard to get a defence.

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, mightyjebus said:

so.. a little update.

 

 

 

he turned out to be a top bloke and we had a bit of a chat and it seems like everyman and his dog is trying to order RIF's without some sort of defense (he quoted over 150 seized currently).

 

.

I wonder how many of those had posted on this forum in the last year with their clever idea to workaround the VCRA defences

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

In contrast....  a lad I sometimes play informal games with at a local scrapyard ordered from TG just before they stopped shipping to the UK.  No UKARA number yet straight to his door, much to my surprise.  No requests for paperwork, no problem at all.  

 

Silly situation.  

[Rogerborg]

It seems to be a complete lottery whether you fall foul of the law, much like playing informal games at a local scrapyard.

[Tommikka]

11 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

In contrast....  a lad I sometimes play informal games with at a local scrapyard ordered from TG just before they stopped shipping to the UK.  No UKARA number yet straight to his door, much to my surprise.  No requests for paperwork, no problem at all.  

 

Silly situation.  

 

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

It seems to be a complete lottery whether you fall foul of the law, much like playing informal games at a local scrapyard.

Those are scary words to me

 

’Informal games’ sets off quiet alarm bells.  The risks & lines of responsibility of keeping control of safety for both players and anyone else

 

 

’Local scrapyard’ brings in a business and the owners taken on a liability by permitting the activity - or there’s trespassing and more danger between people who are allowed to be there and those who are trespassing

 

 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Four or five mates meeting up on land belonging to one of them,  when the business is locked shut,  and keeping well away from any machinery etc is fine I am sure.  Airsoft in 18 acres of meadows and orchards in the middle of an isolated fen is hardly likely to raise much concern for anyone I hope.  

[Tommikka]

47 minutes ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Four or five mates meeting up on land belonging to one of them,  when the business is locked shut,  and keeping well away from any machinery etc is fine I am sure.  Airsoft in 18 acres of meadows and orchards in the middle of an isolated fen is hardly likely to raise much concern for anyone I hope.  

There’s no problem until there’s a problem 

 

As it’s a workplace if an individual is injured then it becomes reportable to the HSE.  (No need to report a non work related accident, but there is the need to report injuries to non workers)

Its up to the owner to decide whether they need to report or not, if the HSE get wind of it and decide it was reportable then that’s a big issue

 

For wider safety on controlled access a scrapyard will be in a better position than random woods - assuming it’s fenced off etc due to the nature of scrap and it’s value.

 

Its up to you and the owner, provided nothing gets out, nobody complains etc then there’s generally no legal issue in itself.

Provided things are run in a safe and controlled manner then things are less likely to go wrong, and if they do then there’s less risk of things going badly wrong.

If something does go wrong then it can go badly for the business owner 

Meadows and orchards can be a different matter.

Isolation probably means no one is likely stumble into a game, but it happens.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Thanks, all stuff to reconsider.  

[Rogerborg]

Mmm, I'm not risk averse, and it's fine to do what you want with consent on private land.  Public land, no matter how remote, is a huge no-no, as these muppets found out.

 

However, liability is always worth bearing in mind. It'll all be handshakes and gentleman's agreements until someone breaks a leg, impales themselves on a rusty spike, or takes some balls to the eye, and then it'll be a question of "Who pays my mortgage?".  You cannot contractually waiver away liability for death or personal injury.

 

Generally you'd go after the deepest pockets.  What I'd imagine would happen is that Crippled Cathy would sue the scrapyard for some failure in a duty of care (unsuitable use of the site, site was hazardous, site was responsible for checking gnus for hotness if they were going to let airsoft run there) , their PLI insurer (hopefully they have one) will initially say "Go away, not covered", and it'll end in a legal wrangle. If it gets to court the bench will say "You're not strictly liable, but you've got money, so pay up, then recover it from your client", the insurer would go after the site, and the site might then go after whoever was organising the games.  Either way, it could get messy, drag on for years, and end up coming out of individuals' pockets.

 

It'll be fine until it's not, of course.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

All stuff to consider in most places to think about it.  Miles of farmland to play on, but it is still of course commercial/a business premises.  Even playing in a private garden could be considered to have a responsible organiser I am thinking?  

 

I suppose to some extent it concerns what we are prepared not to do on our own property, due to the possibility of something going wrong.  

[Rogerborg]

I wish we didn't live in a litigious society, it's only lawyers who really profit. But sadly it's the reality that when someone loses their life, mobility or income, it very quickly becomes an issue of "There's must be a claim, even without blame."

 

The significant case law is Volwes v Evans and the Welsh Rugby Union, where an unpaid volunteer referee was held liable for an injury to an amateur player.  The Rugby Union's insurers ended up footing the bill, but mostly because courts like to award against the deepest pockets just on the practicality (if not fairness) of it.

 

I'd get something on record that there is no organiser, marshalling or refereeing, and that everyone is participating as peers and solely responsible for their own actions.

[Lozart]

30 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 Public land, no matter how remote, is a huge no-no, as these muppets found out.

 

 

It was private land, the fine was issued for breaching the Rule of Six, no other action was taken.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

13 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

I'd get something on record that there is no organiser, marshalling or refereeing, and that everyone is participating as peers and solely responsible for their own actions.

Good thinking.  Cheers mate.

[RonLancs]

1 hour ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Good thinking.  Cheers mate.

The crime is getting caught, something that should be kept private. 
 

copyright https://airsoft-forums.uk/profile/19415-magpietactical/

 

 

[Greg147]

On the topic of ordering from TG, has anyone else lost the option to select a delivery on the website? I was willing to gamble an order due to them having something out of stock elsewhere, but when checking out, I select Great Britain, tick a 'terms of delivery box', and then an error saying' Your shopping cart contains the following errors: Choose delivery method'

 

Changing GB to any other country unlocks a check box for delivery type, but this isn't there for GB. Am I missing something, or have they suspended orders? 

[RonLancs]

2 minutes ago, Greg147 said:

On the topic of ordering from TG, has anyone else lost the option to select a delivery on the website? I was willing to gamble an order due to them having something out of stock elsewhere, but when checking out, I select Great Britain, tick a 'terms of delivery box', and then an error saying' Your shopping cart contains the following errors: Choose delivery method'

 

Changing GB to any other country unlocks a check box for delivery type, but this isn't there for GB. Am I missing something, or have they suspended orders? 

Yea man, scroll up / back a page. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by RonLancs

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

1 hour ago, RonLancs said:

The crime is getting caught, something that should be kept private. 
 

copyright https://airsoft-forums.uk/profile/19415-magpietactical/

 

 

Must be secret squirrel level serious if the UKARA police can get involved!

[Rigal]

On 20/06/2021 at 23:36, EvilMonkee said:

What did they have to say about that?

So far, nothing. Nothing chasing it up. I think their asses have finially caught up with what passes for their brains and realised they've fucked up.

21 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

In contrast....  a lad I sometimes play informal games with at a local scrapyard ordered from TG just before they stopped shipping to the UK.  No UKARA number yet straight to his door, much to my surprise.  No requests for paperwork, no problem at all.  

 

Silly situation.  

I only really started playing airsoft at the end of 2019 and didn't get my Ukara until about October 2020 due to lockdown and travel needed to get to the field. Well before getting my Ukara, I made something like 5 orders from TG of at least 5 RIFs and multiple mags, BB's, holsters and other gear. Every single one got to my door without any issues from Border Force or anyone else.

 

On a side note with your informal games, a signed waiver from all involved should help protect the owner from any accidents and so on. Just do all you can to cover asses. Just in case.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Rigal

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Rigal said:

On a side note with your informal games, a signed waiver from all involved should help protect the owner from any accidents and so on. Just do all you can to cover asses. Just in case.

 

It's a tricky one.  You can consent to accepting risk and being reasonably harmed (combat sports, piercings, surgical procedures, being shot with bits of plastic), but you can't agree to waive liability for negligence that results in death or personal injury (Consumer Rights Act 2015 S65) in any trader/consumer relationship.  It's fuzzier on a personal level, I'm not sure of the case law on that.

 

I should clarify that I think it's best for all involved if there is someone who has a clear duty of care, and is explicitly insured for that risk.  I'd hate to see any individual be left holding the liability bag should the worst happen.

 

 

5 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

It was private land, the fine was issued for breaching the Rule of Six, no other action was taken.

 

Ah, my bad, I didn't realise it was private land.  With permission?  I wonder who squealed on them.

[Lozart]

11 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Ah, my bad, I didn't realise it was private land.  With permission?  I wonder who squealed on them.

 

I believe it was a dog walker or some such that wasn't entirely aware of what was going on. Entirely valid response from the Police though (more than 6 and travelling from Southampton).

[Rogerborg]

16 minutes ago, Lozart said:

Entirely valid response from the Police though (more than 6 and travelling from Southampton).

 

Depending on whether you think that novel laws should be prioritised over boring old ones that are difficult to enforce.  I doubt that they'd cleared up every burglary in the area.

[Lozart]

Just now, Rogerborg said:

 

Depending on whether you think that novel laws should be prioritised over boring old ones that are difficult to enforce.  I doubt that they'd cleared up every burglary in the area.

 

Beggarwood is just up the road from me. It's not exactly a hotbed of crime!

[Rogerborg]

3 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Beggarwood is just up the road from me. It's not exactly a hotbed of crime!

 

You're not fooling me, I've seen every episode of Midsomer Murders.  Every time an owl hoots, someone gets stabbed with a pitchfork.

[Lozart]

11 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

You're not fooling me, I've seen every episode of Midsomer Murders.  Every time an owl hoots, someone gets stabbed with a pitchfork.

 

Never having actually seen it I just googled it to see where abouts it's supposed to be. Apparently while Midsomer is in a fictional county visual clues from the show suggest it's around Berkshire/North Hampshire kind of area so yeah...my neck of the woods. Not that I remember hearing of anyone being murdered with a wheel of cheese! 🤣

[GoopGoop]

Sup guys hope everyone's well!

 

Sadly, my CYMA Platinum 0.97B from TG broke 3 hours after use. It makes the jingle when the battery plugs in but doesn't fire anymore.

 

TG think its the optical trigger sensor, and they're probably right. Not only that, but it dropped from 350 to 300fps within a few hours too, so guess there's an airleak already.

However, they are flat out declining to fullfill our warranty agreement. They said they are no longer shipping to the UK because of 'brexit' despite accepting my order and many other's in May.

For that reason they are not willing to give me a return label to send it back to them for repair.

I know it's likely a simple fix, but its my first RIF and I dont want to open it myself and void the warranty, incase there's more issues down the road.. I mean, it completely broke after 3 hours.

Pretty shocked at TG's customer service, they have been horrendously unhelpfull and are doing anything they can to shut me out. I'd prefer not to go down the paypal dispute route as I loved the gun while it lasted, and its £100 cheaper than buying in the UK, (and I paid a load in import fee's to get it here).

 

Anyways, just thought I'd share this in case anyone has any suggestions for what I should do. It's my first and only replica so I've been missing out on game days, sat here with a bunch of brand new unusable gear.

 

I'll see how things go from here on out, but if they continue to be unhelpful I'll probably post a brand new thread on here warning people of the risks involved with TG.

Peace out

Edited July 29, 2021 by GoopGoop