Wat Em Best Tournament Gnu? Yes All My Titles Are Going to Be That Stupid)

[Skara]

Ooookay boys,

I'm done with proprietary parts and I'm putting the honey badger for sale on the Italian forums.

 

I'm on the hunt for a new rifle.

This is going to be a tournament gun, which means it needs to be compact, lightweight and needs to take M4 magazines. I'll have to lump it around for 12h+.

In addition to that, it must be an M4 because I already have plenty of parts for it.

 

So, general list of requirements:

 

● M4 platform:

● Must have a polymer body to keep the weight down;

● The least amount of weird, weak and hard to find  proprietary parts;

● QD 8mm gearbox (easier to work with and I already have bushings/bearings of that size)

● Electronics only if we're talking about a G&G ETU, as I can get a nice Perun upgrade kit/ETU++ and get that nice binary trigger.

 

Not too fussed about the length and weight of the front end, I can replace it with my G&G ARP-9 rail.

As far as battery space goes, I'd like to have a stubby fixed stock so I can use whatever battery I get my hands on.

 

Any ideas?

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

JG Thundermaul

[alxndrhll]

I can't help but be confused as to what the difference is between a 'tournament gnu' and a... 'gnu'. May just be that the idea of airsoft tournaments isn't a thing I'm familiar with at all, but the listed criteria seems desirable for any RIF. You seem to been pretty successful with the build from your other thread, what makes that one unable to be altered into a 'tournament gnu'... whatever one of those is.

[Skara]

14 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

what makes that one unable to be altered into a 'tournament gnu'

The aesthetic of it, mainly. Don't want to ruin the 933 look.

 

My specna can (and will) definitely be used in tournaments. In fact the first one is scheduled on the 25th and I'm taking the specna with me (unless I can build this new one in time). But for the longer ones (8h+ with a fuckton of kilometres to hike) I'd like to have something lighter, in the region of sub 2kg (with loaded mag and battery) if possible.

[Asomodai]

32 minutes ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

JG Thundermaul

 

He's not kidding. Even I am tempted by the one on GF for just 80 odd quid! Not quite 8mm bushings though!

 

If only to go with my eventually Poseidon kitted M4! 

 

http://www.poseidon.co.jp/2F/raisen/g_rai01.jpg

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

28 minutes ago, Asomodai said:

 

He's not kidding. Even I am tempted by the one on GF for just 80 odd quid! Not quite 8mm bushings though!

 

If only to go with my eventually Poseidon kitted M4! 

 

http://www.poseidon.co.jp/2F/raisen/g_rai01.jpg

They are, by all accounts, really good guns. My suggestion was only half-joking!

[DerDer]

Car-15. Largely because I can't remember the last time I saw one on a skirmish field.

Niche appeal. 

[PopRocket123]

The best polymer receivers I've come across have been from g&g can't comment on the rest though. 

[Adolf Hamster]

this feels like an arp556 with the stock swapped.

 

the key i've found is balance is as important as overall weight, keeping the centre of gravity in the region of the magwell makes things nice an pointable even with a nominally long frontend, so a standard m16 stock with a chunky battery sounds like a plan.

 

the other question is what kind of tournament are we talking? it sounds from the 8hr's and hiking it's more milsim than speedsoft, so presumably a focus on long-range is what you're going for.

[Skara]

It has nothing to do with speedsoft.

If you want to compare it to a milsim, let's just say you're a very small SF team that runs all over the place and attacks 4/5 small objectives while avoiding enemy patrols.

 

I was looking at G&G offerings and yes, the ARP-556 would fit the bill if it wasn't so expensive to begin with, I'm not keen on spending €300+ on something I'm replacing most of anyway.

Or maybe another specna.

[Cr0-Magnon]

I am definitely buying a Thunder Maul now. If someone wants to borrow a gun from me, they have to use it.

 

Edit: They're £225! ?

[Adolf Hamster]

Maybe scratch build it?

 

Grab an e&c reciever from @ak2m4 and build up from there.

[Asomodai]

1 hour ago, Cr0-Magnon said:

I am definitely buying a Thunder Maul now. If someone wants to borrow a gun from me, they have to use it.

 

Edit: They're £225! ?

 

Gunfire have them for 80 odd quid!

[AK47frizzle]

why just get a G&G m4 lower and fit it onto the arp?

[ak2m4]

I built a SLR 5" shorty M4 from a £40'ish Kit from Aliexpress together with an E&C gearbox, PTS EPG-C, it's my favourite AEG

 

[Skara]

Okay.

 

Building it from scratch, after a quick rundown of what parts I need, is a nope.

Half of the stuff is out of stock on all websites and buying from different places obviously pumps up the total. Ordering from abroad is unfeasible unless we're talking a complete gun.

Speaking of which, I think I have narrowed it down to:

 

● the cheapest G&G POS with an ETU I can find (will ask teammates if they have something for sale);

● A specna Core + ETU trigger assembly;

● A JG stubby M4 with fixed stock (this one I might source from a teammate) + the ETU and probably a new gearbox shell depending on what size of bushings (or I can bore them out to 8mm).

 

Of course other ideas are welcome.

[Sitting Duck]

Thunder Maul is front wired

& just a load of extra plastic glitter sprinkled over a turd

But a cheap gun - but so is a Cyma CM517

 

Could take a 517 and pull it about - but not QC

 

Could take a SA-C02 & pull it about

Could grab a SA-C18 & hunt for a rocking horse shit fixed stubby stock

Though I'd be tempted to see if you can source a C10 locally in Italy...

 

https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/specna-arms-rock-river-arms-sa-c10-core-stubby-cqb-carbine?pv=7952

or nearby...

https://www.toysoldier.pl/product/SPECNA-ARMS-Replika-karabinka-RRA-SA-C10-CORE--s413

 

Still need a fixed stubby, shame you couldn't grab the AY-0026

https://gunfire.com/en/products/ay-a0026-carbine-replica-black-1152225576.html

nick the stock, fit the c10 crane on it & tweak/flogg it

 

Personally - something like the C10 ticks most of the boxes - except the stock

reason I'm leaning towards it coz I would change little - likely keep the front end as is

trying to mess about with it as little as possible & just focus on tweaking the internals a bit

add a tiny basic mosfet like perun, maybe take up any slack in trigger...

 

Or wait for m904G to come back in stock

but then you got the HB anyway ???

 

Realistically - you are never get everything without work, hassle or a trade off

So you could also get the HB running sweet & stick with it mostly as is than change loads & loads

 

just seen your reply...

 

35 minutes ago, Skara said:

Okay.

 

Building it from scratch, after a quick rundown of what parts I need, is a nope.

Half of the stuff is out of stock on all websites and buying from different places obviously pumps up the total. Ordering from abroad is unfeasible unless we're talking a complete gun.

Speaking of which, I think I have narrowed it down to:

 

● the cheapest G&G POS with an ETU I can find (will ask teammates if they have something for sale);

● A specna Core + ETU trigger assembly;

● A JG stubby M4 with fixed stock (this one I might source from a teammate) + the ETU and probably a new gearbox shell depending on what size of bushings (or I can bore them out to 8mm).

 

 

The JG is an option, but not QC box OR RECEIVER - so more work

 

I was going to suggest buying the JG stubby AND the SA-10, swapping stocks

then flogging the JG stubby with crane stock - bit like the AY-0026 option

but JG is more money new, but if you get it cheap from a m8 then is an option

 

The ETU is a POS, mostly the mosfet unit - but perun option, though say £40 on top

but the ETU switch unit is not exactly ultra robust & those 3 tiny micro-switches can/do bust sometimes

BUT - it does work well (When it fucking works)

You flick the trigger for a nano second and it will always complete the cycle 101%

it will fire once on semi or once if full auto (if just tapped a slit second) & fully complete the cycle

or if using burst, a quick flick for a fraction of a second & it will fire 3 rounds and park perfectly

(using mild AB too I think)

 

It is very clever - just the G&G reliability is shit

Perun upgrade is great - but another £40, which is OK if you already have a ETU gun that is fucked

But to consider building a ETU gun, then the Perun upgrade - hmmm, why not buy the Perun optical to begin with ???

Unless you are talking about buying the ETU upgrade for the ARP at some point

 

Also the G&G ETU guns, the selector plate is a modded DMR type = so no lifting of COL for old school full auto

not that this matters, but if you ever rip out the ETU and go old school you need a new selector plate too

(of if buying the G&G full ETU kit, they should supply a modded DMR type selector, so never lifting COL)

 

Again it is where do you start & where do you stop scenario

 

I'd be tempted to maybe go with a SA-10, stick with old school snappy stuff

see if you can get the JG stubby for just the stock, swap stocks over & flogg JG maybe

 

Take the SA-10 with stubby to its limit for very snappy old school response

 

Maybe consider the Perun ETU upgrade for the ARP at some point to run a snappy 13:1 7.4v if battery space is tight

&

perhaps get the HB running well, run with that for a while whilst you consider all options 7 if it is all worth it in the end

yeah it is all do-able, but at what cost: time, money, aggro etc...

So you have to weigh all these things up & I'm sure you could talk yourself into & out of various options

(and STILL think to yourself - yeah but what if....)

 

But what else are we all doing, looking at toy gun options & wondering what our next project will be

[Skara]

I already have the upgrade kit in the arp.

But since perun is about to release their ETU++ I thought I could plug the upgrade kit I already have into the new gun (mainly for the binary trigger and battery protection), and then wait for the etu++ and install that one in the arp. Or the other way round, you know, they are pretty much the same thing, the new one has a few more functions (that I'll never use anyway).

 

I can definitely source a C-10 (or a C-21, slightly longer front end for not much more weight), I can actually source that AY thingy too as it's available in my usual San Marino retailer.

 

A friend of mine just told me he has a spare ETU switch (+ dedicated selector plate) that he is willing to swap with two unbranded shit 363x6.08 barrels. Will pick it up on Friday omw to the office.

I'm not a fan of optical FCUs, imo there is a lot that can go wrong with them compared to more classical mechanical/micro switches.

 

Stubby stock is coming next week as well, so the externals of whatever gun I buy are sorted.

 

I'll have a look at these 3 guns (C10, C21, AY thingamajig).

[Speedbird_666]

5 hours ago, ak2m4 said:

I built a SLR 5" shorty M4 from a £40'ish Kit from Aliexpress together with an E&C gearbox, PTS EPG-C, it's my favourite AEG

 

 

Isn't that a Gel blaster receiver?

 

Did you have to do any mods to fit a standard Airsoft GB/Hop unit?

[ak2m4]

26 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

Isn't that a Gel blaster receiver?

 

Did you have to do any mods to fit a standard Airsoft GB/Hop unit?

Yes matey for Gel Blasters, all you need to do it remove a small amount of plastic from the top of the lower receiver, plus also a bit from the inside where the charging handle goes, really simple.  Cheapest I've seen it for is 30 bucks for the receiver and motor grip (motor grip is pretty sub-standard) and 19 bucks for the 5" handguard

[Sitting Duck]

14 hours ago, Skara said:

I already have the upgrade kit in the arp.

But since perun is about to release their ETU++ I thought I could plug the upgrade kit I already have into the new gun (mainly for the binary trigger and battery protection), and then wait for the etu++ and install that one in the arp. Or the other way round, you know, they are pretty much the same thing, the new one has a few more functions (that I'll never use anyway).

 

I can definitely source a C-10 (or a C-21, slightly longer front end for not much more weight), I can actually source that AY thingy too as it's available in my usual San Marino retailer.

 

A friend of mine just told me he has a spare ETU switch (+ dedicated selector plate) that he is willing to swap with two unbranded shit 363x6.08 barrels. Will pick it up on Friday omw to the office.

I'm not a fan of optical FCUs, imo there is a lot that can go wrong with them compared to more classical mechanical/micro switches.

 

Stubby stock is coming next week as well, so the externals of whatever gun I buy are sorted.

 

I'll have a look at these 3 guns (C10, C21, AY thingamajig).

 

AY-0026 is all metal, tinpot metal receiver, slightly qwirky o-ring nozzle/hop unit

and that bit missing off front of box (wouldn't build a DSG or stressy build in that box)

 

AY aka ForceCore v2 gearbox, with chopped front end on top ???

only very very minor radius this box, coz fuck all there to begin with

 

But after you get past it qwirks/flaws it still is a lot of bang for ya buck

(bit of a cheap bang in quality - but still worth it for "must be metal" peeps)

 

The real clincher is the rarer than rocking horse shit stubby stock

than the so-so quality - but good bang for ya buck (maybe)

 

Not QC, so really something SA like C-10 or whatever that nigh on fits the bill on looks/length

(so altering little externally)

 

If you got the ETU bits n bobs spare then yeah, worth a go like you proposed sounds good

just saying wouldn't buy ETU kit new & then Perun upgrade on top

As said - it needs a selector plate for DMR/single shot only

hence why they include a selector in the G&G kit...

(But your m8 is including the DMR/ETU selector plate so no biggy)

 

coz it relies on COL popping up/down even in AUTO to inform ETU of sector's position/just fired/cycled

 

But the way it always completes the cycle & parks is very clever

Sure possible flimsy tiny micro tactile switches - damn fucking small

But then fancy stuff with optical sensors can go all crazy if grease/dirt gets on them or misaligned sensors

So the ETU's 3 x switches can be a little more simplified - with less likely to be effected by flying grease

just don't pull the trigger ultra hard that it wrecks the tiny micro switch on trigger

(The COL micro switch & the rear switch that detects semi/auto mode, are usually OK, it is the trigger one that can fail)

But it is mainly the picky G&G ETU unit, where most of the problems are, thank fuck for Perun

(G&G should just quit making their ETU unit, negotiate with Perun on bulk pricing and just use these instead)

 

Then they might start selling more ETU guns, once they stop being so unreliable or temperamental

(reclaiming some of their reputation they lost from iffy ETU's)

[Impulse]

VSR am bset tornament gnu.

 

The answer is always VSR. Even when it's a 1J gun.

 

Yes, it's totally an m4 platform and is lightweight and satisfies every requirement you laid out. Don't question it.

 

No, I'm not biased.

 

*glances at multiple VSRs against the wall...*

[Skara]

Had a chat with my tech, he suggested to buy a cheap G&G combat machine and go from there.

 

Now, my local retailer has a G&G CM16 MK18 going for €185 (couple quid cheaper than online). Yet another option. Not a fan of the weight distribution, despite having a plastic DD style handguard, it's a little front heavy.

 

Option number 5: a lot of people in my club use G&G Combat Machines, so maybe I can trade my honey badger with one of those. So I get the base gun and they get something a little less basic.

 

[Sitting Duck]

2 hours ago, Skara said:

Had a chat with my tech, he suggested to buy a cheap G&G combat machine and go from there.

 

Now, my local retailer has a G&G CM16 MK18 going for €185 (couple quid cheaper than online). Yet another option. Not a fan of the weight distribution, despite having a plastic DD style handguard, it's a little front heavy.

 

Option number 5: a lot of people in my club use G&G Combat Machines, so maybe I can trade my honey badger with one of those. So I get the base gun and they get something a little less basic.

 

 

G&G CM18 is a nice gun - bit dated launched late 2014

older big white CM logo on receiver, same metal flip sights as FireHawk

I call it the big brother/Daddy of FH

came with better Blue Ferrite "Powerful Motor", sorta ferrite IFRIT motor

 

However there is Raider 2.0E - E standing for ETU inside

or the FFR A2...

https://www.softairgames.net/en/m4-m16-stubby/4715-ffr-a2-cm16-ecu-black-gg-gg-egc-16p-fa2-bnb.html

My FFR A2 - the ETU blew when I swapped motor after finding the slow lame std 18k grey motor inside

(so went back to old school trigger/mosfet, new selector plate & 13:1 SHS motor etc...)

G&G now also do a green 17k motor - really G&G, just make the Blue motor (ferrite) & Orange Ifrit (neodym)

(Think there was a red motor, but reckon it was a forerunner to Ifrit, though honestly think 18k/17k should be shelved)

here's a run down comparison of motors...

 

as said Blue "Powerful" is a decent-ish ferrite motor not far behind the neodym Ifrit

though weaker magnets means a bit less torque & slightly less rof under load maybe

but better than the std 18k motor for sure, and both blue/orange motors are worth keeping for a cost effective build

The Raider 2.0 E and/or the FFR A2 are about the cheapest G&G's with DairyLea ETU inside

(dunno what motor is in Raider 2.0 (non ETU) or the 2.0 E (ETU) guns

a 300 BOT "might" have a basic std mosfet but don't quote me on this & no clue about motor inside

Unsure what is in the KR CQB, I'm guessing it is no mosfet like a CM18, but again dunno what motor is in there

 

If trading on a used gun, then the motor's inside could be bit tired, needing a service/replacing

but more in case you buy new or trade a hardly used gun perhaps, for a low budget build/project

 

BUT - they are not QC spring boxes or receivers like SA c-10's etc...

So you are unticking one of your boxes

So me personally I'd still be leaning towards the C-10 or something...

eg: maybe a CM18 type gun like the SA C05...

https://gunfire.com/en/products/sa-c05-core-tm-carbine-replica-half-tan-1152215725.html

 

or c08, c10, c11, c12 blah blah blah - no fancy pdw stock if changing to stubby

Ideally, some base that matches the length/look you are aiming for without you needing external modding up front

 

Best G&G option, find somebody with say a FFR A2 to swap with HB perhaps

but as said, you are losing the QC option, which with strict field limits like you got

then the QC option is a strong consideration if aiming for max 0.9999999j but not over

 

What you are facing is a conundrum of minor trade offs most likely as I said

against time/money/effort & availability/options in buying/trading/part-exchange etc...

So this bit is like option 6 - maybe 7 & even option 8

 

Reckon you will be up to option 10+ by start of next week

Though you got a few nice working guns to hand, so no need to rush making any decisions

I would keep an eye out for a stubby stock, or some gun with it, to grab, mild tweak, replace with crane & sell on

Then once you got a stubby, then look for light QC donor gun to go nutz on

(other than that, I'd just bide my time as see what comes up)

[Skara]

Might have found a kid willing to swap his combat machine (raider? The 10" plastic ris gun) with the HB.