Geoff's Bb's or Equivalents

[AlphaBear]

OK chaps, advice... 

 

1. Gun number one is a DMR with an R-Hop pumping 450fps. So what ammo should I get? I know people recommend Geoff's but they are pretty damn expensive. Is there much difference between Precision and Super Precision to warranty the slight hike in price? If it is Geoff's then would 0.36's (£11.69/1000bbs) cut the mustard or should I go for the 0.4's (£15.49/1000bbs)? Oh these are the SP ones by the way..

 

https://outdoorandtactical.co.uk/product-category/brand/geoffs/super-precision/

 

2. Gun number 2 - 350fps and flat hop (purple prommy).. Outdoor/Woodland use. I guess the heavier the ammo the better but the price difference is huge. Would the 0.28's suffice (£8.69/3000bbs) or would you go for the 0.3's (£13.39/3000)

 

This will be the first time I'll be using these 2 guns.. Generally I use 0.2 (have about 5 bags of 3700 to get through) and 0.25's (about 12,000 to get through!)

 

3. Other than Geoff's are there any quality brand of BB's I should be considering? I've seen BLS mentioned ASG Devil Blasters and so on..

 

Ta..

[Rogerborg]

Do you know if the DMR can hop 0.4g?  I know, R-hop, but nubs and pressure and bears, oh my.

[Steveocee]

I go through the same mental battle all the time. There must be something equivalent to Geoffs. I can't find anything and don't feel confident in anything else. I exclusively use Geoffs from the .25's I throw indoors, .28's for outdoors, .43's for VSR and .48's for SRS.

 

The only thing that has raised my eyebrows are these new Valkyrie things but I'm waiting until people are 6 months in on them and the novelty has worn off and we get some honest reviews.

[AlphaBear]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

Do you know if the DMR can hop 0.4g?  I know, R-hop, but nubs and pressure and bears, oh my.

It can hop  0.43’s as that’s what Sam did his testing with. I won’t go any higher obviously but the cost of the 0.43 is like £18 odd for 1000 bbs.  

[EvilMonkee]

I think G&Gs are better than Geoffs personally

[AlphaBear]

43 minutes ago, EvilMonkee said:

I think G&Gs are better than Geoffs personally

 

Why? Please explain? Have you had experience with Geoff's too? What type of problems did they give you? thanks

[AlphaBear]

2 hours ago, Steveocee said:

I go through the same mental battle all the time. There must be something equivalent to Geoffs. I can't find anything and don't feel confident in anything else. I exclusively use Geoffs from the .25's I throw indoors, .28's for outdoors, .43's for VSR and .48's for SRS.

 

The only thing that has raised my eyebrows are these new Valkyrie things but I'm waiting until people are 6 months in on them and the novelty has worn off and we get some honest reviews.

 

I heard someone else talk about those  Valkries too and rated them highly.

 

Do we know if Geoff’s is an OEM bb manufacturer or do they buy in? In fact how many OEMs are there that produce bbs?

[Spartan09]

6 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

 

I heard someone else talk about those  Valkries too and rated them highly.

 

Might have been me on the "what have you bought" thread...  i tried their .25g in my guns last month, and they performed so much better than the ASG blasters i was using before...   and worked out cheaper too...

 

I have definately converted to valkyries, and going to try their .32g bbs in my nuprol m4 and G&G SMC9 next game day

 

9 hours ago, Steveocee said:

The only thing that has raised my eyebrows are these new Valkyrie things but I'm waiting until people are 6 months in on them and the novelty has worn off and we get some honest reviews.

 

Well, if you want to see for yourself, you can get a "magee bagee" (their phrasing...  not mine)from their website  to try yourself.  They only ask £1 to cover postage and have enough bbs in each pouch to fill a midcap mag.

[Stratton Oakmont]

Since Nuprol returned to the market with their rzr I have been very happy with them.

used to use Geoffs but too expensive for no improvement, my favourites were blaster Devils but supply was all over the shop so I tried the razrs and see no reason to change. 

in contrast I have a bag of G&G .28 and I ran them in my Tm recoil and my LCT sr3 and neither of them liked them.

[concretesnail]

Devil blasters .3g have been great for me running up to 350fps outdoor. I use Geoff for tracers mixed in with them.

 

If your using bio (non tracer) I've noticed that Geoffs aren't too badly priced when compared to other "better" bbs.

 

Inhave recently had to use the new rzr (indoor cqb) as I couldn't get the usual devils at the time and they were fine.

[Adolf Hamster]

for the lighter weights there's not too much distinction between the precision/super precisions methinks, certainly around the .3g range it's not too worrysome.

 

for the dmr i'd be saying run the .48's and save the money by trying to miss less....

[rj1986]

I think i read on here the other day that BLS are OEM for Geoffs.

Could be true, could be made up.

 

I'm currently looking at the same situation as I now have (finally) built a 417 DMR and will R hop it, have an RHOP in a rifle and will be adding a MR HOP AEG set up which is virtually the same so was seeing what bio + Tracer options there are in heavy weights, and BLS look reasonably good.

[AlphaBear]

I read the same too that BLS were the OEM for Geoff's (probably on the MWS thread) ... With regards to BLS, is there a UK source for BLS and are the prices any different from Geoffs? 

 

Regarding the Nuprol RZR's places like Eagle6 use them for their testing and recommend them! Even KoA lists them as a recommend BB brand... I mean it's Nuprol for crying out loud... unless that is they are an OEM too? 

[rj1986]

This is what i was using a price comparison site:

 

https://www.bb-shop.be

[AlphaBear]

Thanks for that.... I've just checked... it's cheaper to buy from outdoorandtactical by a smidge... also the ebay prices for the same ones are like silly money! Not that I'd buy BB's from Ebay coz you never know what's really in the packet...

[EvilMonkee]

On 09/08/2020 at 23:35, AlphaBear said:

 

Why? Please explain? Have you had experience with Geoff's too? What type of problems did they give you? thanks

As I run GBBR almost exclusively I have zero jams or malfunctions with G&G and more with Geoffs.  Though still relatively less than any other brand.  I think G&G are harder BBs as well.  Someone did a study of different brands a couple of years back and G&G were the best by a long shot, though again that was pre Geoffs.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

On 09/08/2020 at 21:15, Steveocee said:

I go through the same mental battle all the time. There must be something equivalent to Geoffs. I can't find anything and don't feel confident in anything else. I exclusively use Geoffs from the .25's I throw indoors, .28's for outdoors, .43's for VSR and .48's for SRS.

 

The only thing that has raised my eyebrows are these new Valkyrie things but I'm waiting until people are 6 months in on them and the novelty has worn off and we get some honest reviews.

Not six months in, but I've tested 6000 of the  Valkyrie Precision Elite .25 through five rifles.  No better or worse than Zero One's bio Blitz in most, terrible in a Purple Prometheus equipped CYMA AK.   

 

The CYMA is a mercurial beast at best of times.  I'll go with Geoff's, Blitzes, or Valkyries in .25 tbh.  They all feed great and have few flyers.  In heavier weights, I only use Geoff's. for the bolt action sniper.

[Davegolf]

What weight can you hop has been covered, but @AlphaBear what weight can you joule creep?

 

Personally I would not run a heavier BB than you can at least maintain joules with.

 

At 450 I think this will put you in the realms of 0.36-0.40 being an AEG platform, if Gas then you can go higher.

 

As for makes I have not tried G&G but am interested in the comments.

 

I think Geoff's are not as hot as claimed anymore, I recently posted my astonishment at the accuracy/grouping increase I got switching from Geoff to Green Devil BIOs, not helpful for you as they only manufacture upto 0.30 but shows Geoff's are not all that.

[AlphaBear]

36 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

What weight can you hop has been covered, but @AlphaBear what weight can you joule creep?

 

Personally I would not run a heavier BB than you can at least maintain joules with.

 

At 450 I think this will put you in the realms of 0.36-0.40 being an AEG platform, if Gas then you can go higher.

 

As for makes I have not tried G&G but am interested in the comments.

 

I think Geoff's are not as hot as claimed anymore, I recently posted my astonishment at the accuracy/grouping increase I got switching from Geoff to Green Devil BIOs, not helpful for you as they only manufacture upto 0.30 but shows Geoff's are not all that.

That’s a good point regarding what weight I can Joule creep. I’m not sure to be honest. My site uses the FPS method to chrono so joules creep doesn’t really come into play I guess. But having said that you bring up a salient point. As a happy medium I’ll probably go with 0.4’s in the first instance and see how I rock with those.

[Adolf Hamster]

22 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

I read the same too that BLS were the OEM for Geoff's (probably on the MWS thread) ... With regards to BLS, is there a UK source for BLS and are the prices any different from Geoffs? 

 

Regarding the Nuprol RZR's places like Eagle6 use them for their testing and recommend them! Even KoA lists them as a recommend BB brand... I mean it's Nuprol for crying out loud... unless that is they are an OEM too? 

 

afaik an awful lot of bb manufacturers have the same oem, for me the primary reason i use geoffs is the first time i tried them they fixed a somewhat annoying misfeeding problem with my cyma ak mags to point they could keep up with literally any gun they were put into.

 

as for joule creep, that's not a mechanic we should be abusing, and the reason why i strongly advocate chrono testing with player weights rather than stuffing .2g into everything.

[Davegolf]

1 hour ago, AlphaBear said:

That’s a good point regarding what weight I can Joule creep. I’m not sure to be honest. My site uses the FPS method to chrono so joules creep doesn’t really come into play I guess. But having said that you bring up a salient point. As a happy medium I’ll probably go with 0.4’s in the first instance and see how I rock with those.

 

What i mean is you should test, even with some cheapo bbs to measure what the joules are with your chrono.

You just dont want to be losing energy, otherwise i kinda negates the heavier BBs weight in the first place.

 

@Adolf Hamster im not implying abusing the system/mechaninc, not saying to increase the joules, (which TBH is difficult to gain neglible joules with AEG setup) just no loss of energy. Otherwise pretty pointless DMR TBH.

[Adolf Hamster]

1 minute ago, Davegolf said:

 

What i mean is you should test, even with some cheapo bbs to measure what the joules are with your chrono.

You just dont want to be losing energy, otherwise i kinda negates the heavier BBs weight in the first place.

 

@Adolf Hamster im not implying abusing the system/mechaninc, not saying to increase the joules, (which TBH is difficult to gain neglible joules with AEG setup) just no loss of energy. Otherwise pretty pointless DMR TBH.

 

ahh you mean hop losses from heavier ammo.

 

i was thinking more the hpa/gbbr type of joule creep.

[Davegolf]

No i do mean actual joule creep.

 

The whole idea of volume matching your cylinder volume to the barrel is so that you are actually accelerating the BB properly.

As soon as you start running heavier ammo it takes more energy and time to accelerate that BB, so you need more volume.

Otherwise that heavy BB is never going to get accelerated fully, again im not saying ramp it up like a HPA rig, just you need to maintain joules to make the whole venture worthwhile.

 

Yes you may end up running a lower FPS if you have a Joule limit/cap at your site, but a properly jouled gun is always going to shoot better than one with joule loss and 50 fps more.

[AlphaBear]

Now I'm going off tangent here....So this topic of Joule creep got me thinking... in theory one could go over a site joules limit if not careful..  

 

The UK joules limit is about 1.13 to 1.14 based on a 0.2g bb @ 350fps. So if we take the 0.43g bb as an example it must not exceed 238fps according to the Z1 calculator. Could that same 0.43 bb travel faster if the gun has excellent compression, perfect hop and perfect barrel or am I completely missing the concept here? 

 

 

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

3 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

No i do mean actual joule creep.

 

The whole idea of volume matching your cylinder volume to the barrel is so that you are actually accelerating the BB properly.

As soon as you start running heavier ammo it takes more energy and time to accelerate that BB, so you need more volume.

Otherwise that heavy BB is never going to get accelerated fully, again im not saying ramp it up like a HPA rig, just you need to maintain joules to make the whole venture worthwhile.

 

Yes you may end up running a lower FPS if you have a Joule limit/cap at your site, but a properly jouled gun is always going to shoot better than one with joule loss and 50 fps more.

 

ahh i think i see where you're coming from.