What Brand AEG and Why?

[Sitting Duck]

11 minutes ago, Nodnol said:

‘Cos everyone regarded Raiders as a great go to for a beginner. I think when I was looking at my first RIF, the Raider 2.0 had just come out, and I loved the M-Lok rail over a standard Picatinny. 
 

So I had a family of guns that were well recommended, almost universally praised, as a good starter gun, with a fresh lick of paint in the form of a more modern rail, AND at a price point that was a good entry point....seemed a no brainer at the time and I don’t regret it one bit. 
 

A bit like anything in life, once you have trust in a brand, you tend to stay with them until proven otherwise. I do that in fishing, and I think I’ll do the same in airsoft too, to be honest. G&G just don’t seem to make BAD guns. Yeah there’s more expensive ones, sexier ones, better trades etc....but in my limited and brief experience, they just seem reliable and do what I want a RIF to do, at a price point that won’t make you wince when it goes wrong.

 

Is it the Raider 2.0 or the Raider 2.0E (ETU inside)

 

was temped to buy a Raider 2.0 but I got enough, though looks niiiiice

(very very tempted a while back)

 

The ETU stuff has shall we say "mixed reviews", my FFR2 the etu died & went back to old school stuff

hence me looking at the non-etu 2.0 coz that M-LOK looked sexy and no silly white big CM logo etc...

[PureSilver]

On 08/08/2020 at 13:37, mattaddiction said:

Q. So what brand have you gone for and why for your AEG (main one you use, not the 10's of others under the bed)?

 

I split between my ruinously expensive TM SOPMOD and my downright affordable EVO3A1.

 

When it comes to OOTB AEGs I firmly believe the ASG Scorpion EVO3A1 is by a country mile the best gun available - possibly the best OOTB airsoft gun on the market at present, full stop. Yes on the new ones they cheaped out on the gears, but for the money it's basically impossible to get such a compelling combination of handling, sturdiness, performance, reliability and interactivity. These things were sub-£300 from Patrolbase for years, when the VFC MP7 - which while very cool is deeply flawed - debuted at £450 (since dropped to £400ish) and the Krytac Vector, inferior in basically every respect except being Vector shaped, remains £450. I can't sing the EVO's praises loudly enough: it is a spectacularly good gun.

 

That said, I don't think there's a single other product I want to buy from ASG, because ASG don't even make it, VFC do.

 

When it comes to not OOTB AEGs I equally firmly believe the TM NGRS SOPMOD or HK416 is the best AEG platform on the market. You get the best overall design, but to get it to the build quality of an LCT you're going to spend many hundreds of pounds on new plastics, a steel outer barrel, a revamp of the gearbox, a Spectre or Titan... The AR-pattern NGRS is the best design on the market in the same way that the TM G17 is (at present) the best G17 design on the market - it's a great design, but you really don't want to buy something built in ABS when you can get it in nylon GFP and aluminium and steel. If cost is no object for an AEG, I would always recommend a and-the-kitchen-sink AR-pattern NGRS.

 

That said, there isn't a single other AEG I would buy from TM, because...

 

On 08/08/2020 at 14:09, Adolf Hamster said:

mostly what i look for in a gun is external quality, because for the basic tm pattern boxes it might take some work but you can get a pretty even playing field of performance out of them.

 

This. I'll never buy a gun that's made of zinc alloy where it should be steel ever again. There are too many great options on the market and more on the way - just look at LCT's EBBR HK33s - to mess around with fragile ARs with aluminium outer barrels.

[Cromulon1994]

I'm not a fan of AEGs, it's something I can't really put my finger on but I guess I prefer the mechanical nature of gas and spring, especially the physical triggers.

 

However, build quality is what I look for and realsword is the best in this field.

[Adolf Hamster]

23 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

I'd highlight CYMA in particular as epitomising the principle of economies of scale.  My M4 cost £75 (with battery and charger) and there was absolutely nothing wrong with it out of the box.  Sure, cheap, nasty plastic, and pretty much every part could be better.  But pretty much every part could be worse too (Jesus, Nuprol what the actual...), and they all function with no unpleasant surprises.

 

this is the thing, you don't need to go all that high end to get something that for the fundamental task of slinging plastic downrange is perfectly acceptable.

 

and given that pretty much any gun can be made to perform at a roughly equivalent level, really what you're paying for is the looks/feel of the thing.

 

22 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

This whole topic is interesting to say the least from the perspective of what people play with.. I've always believed you get what you pay for, but at the end of the day our hobby is governed by the laws pf physics. A bb of the same weight and pushed out with the same power should in theory if all things being equal travel the same distance that a Cyma will shoot at or at the extreme end a Systema will shoot at. Of course range and accuracy will vary depending upon the brand of gun or the upgrades done to it to achieve the perfect air seal with each shot and to attain almost zero friction down the barrel.. Of course external factors like wind, humidity, indoor vs outdoor all play a key part... Will all these big buck guns make me a better player.... hell no! Does it make me smile each time I use them.... absolutely! Rock with what you're happy with....

 

don't get me wrong a higher end gun can feel nice to use, but i think the problem is for the money/effort it costs you end up feeling dissapointed because the reaction becomes "well of course it shoots straight".

 

you're exactly right about it not making you a better player, it might open up opportunities but it won't stop you getting pinged from the bushes by some kid with a rental ak.

[mightyjebus]

airsoft guns are a bit like cars. Most cars will get you from A to B. Some will get you there quicker, smoother or in comfort. You can add fancy alloys, spoilers and go-faster stripes which add nothing to the journey however look cool.

 

Some run on electric, petrol, diesel or some funky weird fuel.

 

There are a million car makers all claiming to be the best however choice usually comes down to personnel taste and cost.

 

Oh and I can't decide if it's the Hi-capa or the M4 is the "boy-racer" equivalent. 

[mattaddiction]

18 minutes ago, mightyjebus said:

airsoft guns are a bit like cars. Most cars will get you from A to B. Some will get you there quicker, smoother or in comfort. You can add fancy alloys, spoilers and go-faster stripes which add nothing to the journey however look cool.

 

Some run on electric, petrol, diesel or some funky weird fuel.

 

There are a million car makers all claiming to be the best however choice usually comes down to personnel taste and cost.

 

Oh and I can't decide if it's the Hi-capa or the M4 is the "boy-racer" equivalent. 

And that's the point, there are so many options, their isn't a golden *best*, what suite one person won't suit the next, be it budget, features, brand, what the shop had on the shelf  etetc and that is what the topic is about, what's made something good for YOU, NOW.  Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if your talking about a cheap CYMA or a brand new PTW, recoil, it's not a willy waving competition, it's about what makes that a good fit for YOU, right now.

 

It's a very personal question that only you can answer, it's about what you're using right now (not what you might go for in the future, sage advice or general drivel about the virtues of various AEG's you've had or not had  etc),  and limited to AEG's in the context of the question (GBBR's / HPA etc are a whole different kettle of balls).

 

I think Nodnol has given one of the best answer (to my question) so far about his G&G raider,  answer was spot on to the question.

 

m

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mattaddiction]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

this is the thing, you don't need to go all that high end to get something that for the fundamental task of slinging plastic downrange is perfectly acceptable.

 

and given that pretty much any gun can be made to perform at a roughly equivalent level, really what you're paying for is the looks/feel of the thing.

 

 

Indeed, i'd go as far as suggesting you could probably play a game or two with a long straw and enough puff at the very extreme if one so desired.

 

I would  personally add quality of materials used and features, though guessing that's partly what you mean by look/feel?

 

m

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cannonfodder]

22 hours ago, mattaddiction said:

 

 

.... GF hardly  ( you only have to put up with an AEG on a Sunday and it's a dam sight easier to change it,  if it gets cranky on you... : o p )

 

m

Also you can ask a mate if you can have a go with his without risking a slap  😁

 

My go to gun is my AKS74U. It's an E&L outer with the gb from my old cyma as the E&L was a lemon and kept jamming

[mattaddiction]

 

13 hours ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

m8 - no offense but you take stuff way too seriously perhaps

 

 

Just trying to keep this particular ship on course, no offence intended.  Plenty of 'whats the best AEG' or 'what would you.. ..' threads out there, I had tried to pose a slightly different question. 

 

m

 

 

[Nodnol]

13 hours ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

Is it the Raider 2.0 or the Raider 2.0E (ETU inside)

 

was temped to buy a Raider 2.0 but I got enough, though looks niiiiice

(very very tempted a while back)

 

The ETU stuff has shall we say "mixed reviews", my FFR2 the etu died & went back to old school stuff

hence me looking at the non-etu 2.0 coz that M-LOK looked sexy and no silly white big CM logo etc...

 Just the 2.0....without the ETU. Was a conscious decision at the time to keep things simple. 

[Rogerborg]

5 hours ago, mattaddiction said:

I think Nodnol has given one of the best answer (to my question) so far about his G&G raider,  answer was spot on to the question.

 

What does he win?

 

To expand on my choices (chopped down CYMA M4, Galaxy MP5K, JG G36C, Army Armament R17, CYMA plastic tri-shotty), the reason is the same in every case: the cheapest way to get something to use or loan out that's handy in CQB, accurate enough at 10 metres, and makes people say "Ouch" just as well as anything else when they get hit.  Or "Ouch-ouch-ouch" for the tri-shot.

 

I've played woodland a bit but it seems that range is king there, and I couldn't shake the feeling that it was a bit pay-to-win, or that folk were at it, running hot guns, or trigger-spamming 450fps DMRs.

 

In CQB, all you need is 200fps and either be first on the trigger, or first to the right spot.  Rather different criteria.

[Sitting Duck]

7 hours ago, mattaddiction said:

 

 

Just trying to keep this particular ship on course, no offence intended.  Plenty of 'whats the best AEG' or 'what would you.. ..' threads out there, I had tried to pose a slightly different question. 

 

m

 

 

 

 

Which at least you admitted was perhaps it badly asked/framed...

 

  

On 08/08/2020 at 22:09, mattaddiction said:

Probably badly asked, but my questing posed is about what you are using now and why, not what you would go for.

(And not a what first AEG to get question,  just curious what rocks your world and why).

 

 

You could have conducted a poll & asked for reasons for your most used gun in collection

But asking what "brand" or make may not be applicable to all

 

As mentioned, G&G make some very nice guns at a wide range of budgets

yet their electronic reliability has let them down from basic mosfets in older toptech's

to the lucky lottery of the ETU's for reliability, needing at least 9.6v to 11v to operate properly

(though some have been fortunate to use 7.4v - though not that common)

What that meant is limited power options in some guns for larger 11.1v's in a compact battery area

in their fancy looking guns & fancy looking compact stocks/battery area

 

So to me the actual brand on its own is a bit vague as there are good & not so good examples in most "brands"

 

I'll agree @Nodnol gave one of the best answers, he did some research and made imho a wise choice

(in also choosing the model carefully)

 

 

[mattaddiction]

37 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

What does he win?

 

 

Absolutely nothing, Who said he won?  Why did he win ?! ?!

 

I just mentioned I though his answer was spot on for what I was asking, a few others as well (no, haven't won anything either.....), I did have to go back and look through and have a re-read as i'd missed some posts with some bad gain structure happening....

 

I only tend to play at Woddland sites and I find the opposite. When I used to go to Urban Assault (granted not a proper CQB site) that's where I've tended to find  people with obviously hot guns which wasn't ever pleasant in close quarters and would just be getting out ranged in the open.  I personally find in woodland you can at least narrow some of that gap most of the time if your outraged.  But cheating makes Airsoft suck in any situation....

 

m

 

 

 

[mattaddiction]

2 hours ago, Sitting Duck said:

 

 

Which at least you admitted was perhaps it badly asked/framed...

 

I've never claimed to be a literary genius and know my limitations.

 

However there was enough of the right words in almost the right order if read properly....

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

You could have conducted a poll & asked for reasons for your most used gun in collection

But asking what "brand" or make may not be applicable to all

 

En no, I can't stand internet forum poll's....  So I couldn't, I'd rather set fire to the internet and be done with it.   Not to mention doing that wouldn't have answered what I was asking.....

 

I was after some thoughts and maybe some discussion on peoples right now, next game day AEG's.  I feel like I've said that before...

 

Brand is very applicable, you can't really not buy a brand..... that's who makes the plastic pea shooters... someone has to make the thing you start with even if you gut it and rebuild the thing...  and if your AEG is a mishmash of lots of different parts, rock on and state your case, but parts are usually referred to by there brand's, could be a good read !

 

Your starting to sound like my 11 year old that's got an answer for everything, no mater how silly it make him sound.

 

 

Quote

 

As mentioned, G&G make some very nice guns at a wide range of budgets

yet their electronic reliability has let them down from basic mosfets in older toptech's

to the lucky lottery of the ETU's for reliability, needing at least 9.6v to 11v to operate properly

(though some have been fortunate to use 7.4v - though not that common)

What that meant is limited power options in some guns for larger 11.1v's in a compact battery area

in their fancy looking guns & fancy looking compact stocks/battery area

 

How is that relevant in the context of the question asked in this thread?

 

Quote

So to me the actual brand on its own is a bit vague as their are good & not so good examples in most "brands"

 

Cool, so don't try answer the question, no one will be offended.

 

Dear g@d... i'm asking about what you (that's the royal you, not you specifically) are using right now.... and tbh I'm probably not actually asking you specifically as sounds like you in a niche that 3d prints their own receivers and forges your own gear boxes in the fires of Barnard Castle. 

 

I've added and model to the question, I had credited everyone with been able to make that assumption TBH.   I would guess 100% of people  Airsofting anywhere ever, aren't using even half of any one companies entire product line, for there next game day.... (My question is specific to what you are using NOW as your main go to AEG... is there an Echo in here....?!).  

 

 

Quote

I'll agree @Nodnol gave one of the best answers, he did some research and made imho a wise choice

(in also choosing the model carefully)

 

 

 

90% faff, 10% substance ^^^^, that about sums up Airsoft.

 

: o p 

 

At least this is keeping me amused while work is still on hiatus and a good few different and interesting points of view so far...    Can we string this out until next March though?!

 

m

[Sneaky]

I have tried out many different manufacturers of RIF’s. I tend to go for what I like and functionality. If it is not a great brand, I am prepared to put in some work. Things have moved on over the last couple of years and it only gets better in my opinion.

[Skara]

The fuck's going on in here?

[Sneaky]

Just now, Skara said:

The fuck's going on in here?

?

[Skara]

1 minute ago, Damion said:

?

It all started somewhat nicely, ended up in a flaming dumpster of an argument between two people

[Sneaky]

Just now, Skara said:

It all started somewhat nicely, ended up in a flaming dumpster of an argument between two people

Right, I’m going back into hiding and carry on watching from a reasonable distance! 

[Sitting Duck]

6 minutes ago, mattaddiction said:

 

I've never claimed to be a literary genius and know my limitations.

 

However there was enough of the right words in almost the right order if read properly....

 

 

 

En no, I can't stand internet forum poll's....  So I couldn't, I'd rather set fire to the internet and be done with it.   Not to mention doing that wouldn't have answered what I was asking.....

 

I was after some thoughts and maybe some discussion on peoples right now, next game day AEG's.  I feel like I've said that before...

 

Brand is very applicable, you can't really not buy a brand..... that's who makes the plastic pea shooters... someone has to make the thing you start with even if you gut it and rebuild the thing...  and if your AEG is a mishmash of lots of different parts, rock on and state your case, but parts are usually referred to by there brand's, could be a good read !

 

Your starting to sound like my 11 year old that's got an answer for everything, no mater how silly it make him sound.

 

 

 

How is that relevant in the context of the question asked in this thread?

 

 

Cool, so don't try answer the question, no one will be offended.

 

Dear g@d... i'm asking about what you (that's the royal you, not you specifically) are using right now.... and tbh I'm probably not actually asking you specifically as sounds like you in a niche that 3d prints their own receivers and forges your own gear boxes in the fires or Barnard Castle. 

 

I've added and model to the question, I had credited everyone with been able to make that assumption TBH.   I would guess 100% of people  Airsofting anywhere ever, aren't using even half of any one companies entire product line, for there next game day.... (My question is specific to what you are using NOW as your main go to AEG... is there an Echo in here....?!).  

 

 

 

90% faff, 10% substance ^^^^, that about sums up Airsoft.

 

: o p 

 

At least this is keeping me amused while work is still on hiatus and a good few different and interesting points of view so far...    Can we string this out until next March though?!

 

m

 

I'll bet your 11 year old has better grammar

 

But OK I'm done with this, I'll accept I'm being a little pedantic after originally being a little flippant or facetious

 

But you win, I'll even apologise for it & sorry to have wasted everybody's time

[mattaddiction]

 

26 minutes ago, Skara said:

It all started somewhat nicely, ended up in a flaming dumpster of an argument between two people

 

Sorry, I'm not trying to cause arguments, just trying to keep to the subject on track (The whole point of asking the question I did was to avoid the usual 'which is best' faff.   We all settle for something, less than perfect, taking the good and bad points in to account and i'm interested to hear peoples rational for that).  Tongue in cheek comments don't come out the other side most of the time.

 

m

 

 

[Skara]

I understand.

 

On 08/08/2020 at 17:14, Skara said:

I go for whatever is easy to work on and has a decent amount of easy to source spares/upgrades.

 

Currently E&L 74u, G&G ARP-9 are my main AEGs, with an Ares Amoeba Honey Badger thrown in that will be replaced soon with something less annoying (Double Eagle Honey Badger if it ever comes back in stock at TaiwanGun)

To add to my previous post.

 

When I got back into airsoft I didn't know much about teching, I just wanted a decent reliable AEG that was LiPo ready (yes it was a thing) and the Ares Honey Badger was just released.

By looking at the few informations available I decided to pull the trigger on it: it had a FCU, it could take 11.1s from the box and it had a QC spring. The hop was a rotary style and it came with a 6.03 barrel.

It's been my workhorse for 4 years, at first used as a primary, then as a backup for other AEGs because I knew I could rely on it in case of failures.

It is still my tournament gun, although there is little left externally from the original design (it has a wonky ass ICS outer made of concrete reinforced lead and an ARP-9 handguard, pink carry handle and pink rail covers), internally it's mostly stock apart from the bushings which have been replaced by bearings and the tappet/nozzle, replaced when they 'splodededed. Fuck me I still have the stock piston inside and IT SEALS! Must've won the Ares lottery to get a piston head that seals! Also to be used as a loaner for mates who destroy theirs or people who want to try airsoft.

 

If I were to buy it now, though, I wouldn't. Wouldn't even recommend one solely because of the proprietary shit quality gearbox shell and FCU.

 

The ARP-9 was an impulse purchase, at the time I was looking at a compact and lightweight AEG sidearm for my sniper kit, a teammate put his arp on sale and quickly snagged it for €180 for a gun that's been used once (can confirm) and came with a drum mag.

It's not so compact anymore, slapped a 9" front end on, replaced the ETU board with a Perun kit and threw in a Maple Leaf rubber, it now sends 0.3s way over there despite being a 0.85J gun.

It's my main gun now, especially for spring/early summer games where I just run a belt and a small backpack.

 

The AK was bought because I wanted one, E&L because it gave me the best compromise (on paper) between cost and quality, plus it was on discount on GF.

Did very little to it, just hardwired a Warfet and a installed a Maple Leaf rubber, now sends 0.3s to the moon while clocking at 0.9J, has a really nice feel despite the weight (its receiver is actually thicker than the real thing, same steel used).

It's just about the right size for my field, with the stock folded it gets even shorter to navigate through dense vegetation and for those super awkward shots where you can't properly shoulder the gun.

 

Next gun will be a basic Specna C-02, Specna because I only heard good things about their Core series (quite the opposite on the Edge, they appear to be a tiny bit shit), the C-02 (M733) because I want something lightweight yet good looking, and we all know that old school best school. It'll get the same treatment as the AK, so a GATE mosfet (already bought a NanoHard for it) and a ML rubber.

 

Also, reliability is key for me, all the guns can easily run high C's 11.1s, but I run them on 7.4s. Especially on the Ares, I don't want it to explode during a tournament.

[Cannonfodder]

I must be one of the few people who looks at how a gun performs out of the box as I really cba to mess around doing upgrades. This is partly due to not trusting my tech skills and partly (probably mainly) due to lazyness

[Lollingsgrad]

Different things matter to different people, for me it's bang for buck and ease to work on. To that end, I like CYMA; good enough quality and if you like AKs the value you get from a CM.04x is unmatched. The new ones have perfect seal up to the nozzle which is the only bit I think is worth replacing. Really impressed.

[Musica]

Scorpion evo 2018 smg.

 

I wanted out of the box performance and aside from the gears being awful I would do it again and again. Reason I haven't got another AEG is I just can't justify them as I struggle to find anything that would work as well as the Evo.