Chronoed my rifles yesterday with .20 bbs.

[emilianoksa]

Began with one of my LCT AKs. It was producing shots mainly in the 330s fps with one or two in the 320s and a couple in the low 340s.

 

My G&G M4 registered mainly jn the 320s with several below that and a couple in the low to mid 330s.

 

Chris, the site manager at The Mill cqb has said that power should be 328fps with nothing over 350. I have never fully understood this. Does he mean there is a notional 328 limit but in practice anything under 350 is acceptable? Or does he mean the average of a five shot string should be no more than 328?

 

That brings me on to my second AK. It was shooting in the 340s in the morning. In the evening it was pretty much the same but twice registered 351fps in a twelve shot string. Maybe this was due to temperature change as the central heating had really warmed up the house by the evening.

 

I would be grateful for some advice.

 

Would the first two guns be acceptable at The Mill - neither of them came close to 350. But they werent averaging 328 either.

 

As for the third gun, what do you do about the occasional 351fps? If it were 380 the remedy would be obvious enough: crush or remove coils to get the power down. But for 351? If it were a spring air rifle I would leave the spring compressed for a few days to weaken it.

 

Bbs were ASG Blasters. None of my guns has been skirmished so they are pretty much as new.

I would expect the springs to weaken slightly with use.

 

 

 

[Lozart]

328fps on 0.2g is 1J. Most sites allow a bit for variance around this (the Mall used to allow up to 340). Less than that is absolutely fine, but the 350fps sounds like a hard limit. As for the occasional 351 you could do the same as for your air rifles, fire it to get the spring compressed and leave it for a while - same principle.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks. I realise the significance of 328=1joule, but I imagine there is some leeway. I know that 350 is the national legal limit for any gun capable of fully automatic fire, but it seems some cqb sites set their own limit.

 

Can anybody who goes go The Mill confirm that the 340s are acceptable there?

[Druid799]

Most sites I’ve been to over the yrs that stated 328fps as the target FPS with .2’s did so as it’s a nice ‘sweet spot’ of power , you’ve got enough speed and enough impact energy to reach AND hit your target that they’ll feel it but hopefully not enough that’ll give em a bleeder if you hit bare skin . At least that’s what I was told , and does seem a fair answer to me . 👍

[Immortal]

Probably helps with potential joule creep too having a buffer of fps... and what you said, never really thought about it before.

 

All the sites I play are 350fps max, some work in joules but don't question the weight you may use tbh so some must run a little hot known or otherwise.

[jcheeseright]

374 is the legal limit, I expect the 350 is a hard limit for the site and that a 351 on the chrono will put you over the limit. 

 

wind the hop-up on a quarter turn and you'll probably lose 5fps.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

 

I'll try out some of your suggestions including winding up the hop up and see how I get on.

 

Just don't want to drag my gear along to Wigan to no purpose. At least I have a few pistols and spare mags if the rifles don't qualify.. 

[Immortal]

All the places I've played may state say 350fps but will allow for a slight variance so long as it's UK legal. I only play woodland games so I can only vouch for those sort of sites and the ones I've played.

[Druid799]

10 hours ago, jcheeseright said:

wind the hop-up on a quarter turn and you'll probably lose 5fps.

And when you take that quarter turn back off for the game so your back at the correct hop’ing for your gun you’ve now gone back over the site limit , so your infact cheating the chrono to get a hot gun on the site ? immaterial wether your 1fps or 30fps over the site limit your still over , rules are rules for a reason not something anyone can deny . 

[Musica]

10 hours ago, jcheeseright said:

374 is the legal limit, I expect the 350 is a hard limit for the site and that a 351 on the chrono will put you over the limit. 

 

wind the hop-up on a quarter turn and you'll probably lose 5fps.

 

This is a shitty thing to do. Cheating the chrono is stupid and can get people hurt. There are limits for a reason. 

 

If your gun is hot fix is properly. You should be chronoing with your hop set correctly as the whole point is to see if  your gun shoots over the sites limit when your shooting it at people.  

[Steveocee]

My local uses 370fps for AEG's. Can get a bit hairy in the closer combat areas but most people tend to end up with about 330-350 (apart from the HPA lads who tend to sit at 370). My "newest" sniper is currently sitting at a cool 368fps which I'm hoping will drop back a bit once it's had a skirmish or 2.

[GenePoolReject]

18 minutes ago, Musica said:

 

If your gun is hot fix is properly. You should be chronoing with your hop set correctly as the whole point is to see if  your gun shoots over the sites limit when your shooting it at people.  

 

See this is a good point, what is his hop set to when  Chronoing? My own aeg with the hop backed off as recommended in the manual chronos higher than when I’ve set it properly. If your seeing 351fps but your hop is all the way off then that’s not how you will be using it.

 

Also not all chronos are made equally, I sometimes borrow my mates when I’ve made changes and it’s always optimistic, when I’ve been to site I’m always lower than expected. Frustrating as I’d like to get the most out of the riffle but need the wiggle room just in case.

[Druid799]

🎶what’s that coming over the hill ? is it that old argument ? , is it that old argument ?🎶

🤔🤔🤔

[ImTriggerHappy]

4 minutes ago, GenePoolReject said:

 

See this is a good point, what is his hop set to when  Chronoing? My own aeg with the hop backed off as recommended in the manual chronos higher than when I’ve set it properly. If your seeing 351fps but your hop is all the way off then that’s not how you will be using it.

 

Also not all chronos are made equally, I sometimes borrow my mates when I’ve made changes and it’s always optimistic, when I’ve been to site I’m always lower than expected. Frustrating as I’d like to get the most out of the riffle but need the wiggle room just in case.

Just set your hop to whatever you use.

Truth is that chronoing guns only really stops the people who are miles over. 

 

If your hop is set for 0.28 then then chronos on the limit then it is over as it is over hopping the 0.2 most sites use but as there is no way to police it it is a none issue.

[Pdubyuh]

Sites with a limit for full auto of 370 seems a bit crazy to me, all you need is a slightly out chrono and you could have a whole site playing with illegal guns? 

[Rogerborg]

4 hours ago, Pdubyuh said:

Sites with a limit for full auto of 370 seems a bit crazy to me, all you need is a slightly out chrono and you could have a whole site playing with illegal guns? 

 

If you're chronoing an automatic gun at 370fps with 0.2g BBs and your hop on, then it's very likely that what you're using isn't an airsoft gun, by the legal definition.

 

Because why?  Because the definition is based on the maximum energy that it is capable of producing at the muzzle, with anything that will fit down the barrel, including a steel BB.  The reason for that should hopefully be obvious: the intent is to prohibit guns that could be used for harm, not just to ensure that a gun isn't being used for it at any given time.

 

Don't take my word for it, read the legislation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/3/section/125/enacted

 

And yes, I do think that means that HPA guns are on very thin ice.  I hope that's not put to the test.

[Pdubyuh]

It does seem crazy ive been playing for years and when i started it was 1J +5% so up to 345, then it was 350 now with the defined limit of 370 actually playing to that seems crazy as i said if you chrono is out by 10% you could be doing over 400! 

[jcheeseright]

7 hours ago, Musica said:

 

This is a shitty thing to do. Cheating the chrono is stupid and can get people hurt. There are limits for a reason. 

 

If your gun is hot fix is properly. You should be chronoing with your hop set correctly as the whole point is to see if  your gun shoots over the sites limit when your shooting it at people.  

 

Get a grip, I'm talking about shaving off 1fps, not 20! 

[Druid799]

5 minutes ago, jcheeseright said:

 

Get a grip, I'm talking about shaving off 1fps, not 20! 

Can see where your both coming from but in the end a rule is a rule and the max limit is just that , as much as it sucks to have your gun banned for being 1or 2fps over the max is it anyone else’s fault but your own ? You hear and see so many players banging on about how they’ve tweek’ed there gun to within .5 of a micron under 350 , but you have to ask why ? is it such a bad thing to get your gun running well under it ? If you think your going to be outgunned because your doing 328’ish then quite frankly that extra 22fps isn’t going to make F’all diffrence . 

[emilianoksa]

The hop up on my M4 is set to the use of .25 Blasters. But the chrono results I recorded were with .20. I left the hop up at its normal position for .25. So no problem with that one I think.

 

I haven't even turned on the hop up on on either of my two AKs yet. So far they have only been test fired a couple of times. Soon after buying them I broke my hip and was laid up for months. In fact it is high time I did find out what the best hop position is for them, but I can't be arsed to go into the garden in this weather, and the gun range I visit will only give me 10m. I can get just about that distance inside my house. None of my guns have been skirmished.

 

So I would probably have to add a bit of hop to get the AKs shooting straight anyway. To be honest, I forgot all about hop. I am a newby remember so I often overlook things or forget the obvious.

 

I belong to a generation that still believes in fair play. I would never wind up my hop up for a chrono and back down again for the game. It would never occur to me to do that.Nor would I ever put heavier bbs in the gun for the chrono test than I intended to use in the game. I understand there are some who have tried this. I despise such people.

 

I would either play with the gun in the same state I used it in for the chrony test, even if it were not optimum, or ,if this had a truly terrible effect on accuracy, lock my rifle away and transition to pistol only. Or even ask for one of the site guns to rent.

 

It is not in my nature to cheat. I know how important it is to respect the rules. 

[Immortal]

There are charts for reference (not 100% accurate) that will tell you the joules the different weights are running at powerwise but you need to chrono with those weights to check. Saying that some chronos have weight options too.

 

All but one site I've played make you chrono with their own ammo to stop people loading up to trick the testing. Part of me likes this but part of me doesn't as I don't like putting unknown branded BBs in my rifs but it is what it is and it stops fowl play (sort of). Again there's nothing to stop people tweaking post chono but it's a gentlemens game and if it seems a little off you can always ask a marshal to check. I've never asked a martial to check a players fps but I have in terms of MED that some players flounce.

 

As most sites are 350 max and the law is 370 fps (full auto) there's room for slight variance (and most sites have a + variance). <DELETED INCORRECT INFO - BRAIN FART DETECTED> Personally I will chrono at home with the weight I intend to use and check it matches the joules of the sites I play. Then I'll chrono with 0.2 and see if it's still within the fps limits the sites state. I do both joules and fps as some do one or the other or both. Sounds a little confusing but it makes sense with a chart but perhaps not in my description

[jcheeseright]

The law is NOT in FPS, the law is 1.3j which is 374fps with a .20g BB. 

[Immortal]

2 minutes ago, jcheeseright said:

The law is NOT in FPS, the law is 1.3j which is 374fps with a .20g BB. 

 

AH I stand corrected. Thank you. 👍 Either way I stay within the limits. 

[Rogerborg]

On 20/02/2019 at 22:56, jcheeseright said:

wind the hop-up on a quarter turn and you'll probably lose 5fps.

 

15 hours ago, jcheeseright said:

Get a grip, I'm talking about shaving off 1fps, not 20! 

 

[Druid799]

22 hours ago, Immortal said:

All but one site I've played make you chrono with their own ammo to stop people loading up to trick the testing. Part of me likes this but part of me doesn't as I don't like putting unknown branded BBs in my rifs but it is what it is and it stops fowl play (sort of). Again there's nothing to stop people tweaking post chono but it's a gentlemens game

To be honest I prefer playing at sites that enforce this practice , you know it’s as close as you can get to a level playing field (bar everyone having to chrono with there hop dialed completely off) at the start of the day .

One would hope they do use quality BBs for chrono .