Painting an IF

[Whillo]

I am wanting a RiF but I am 13, and no one in my family posses a UKARA. I was wondering if I could, for example, Spray paint the blue slide of a Clock to make it fully black. Is this illegal?

[T5dogz]

no its not legal you are to young to have one in any case you can use one if supervised by an adult over 18  

[Gepard]

No, you can't. I suggest reading the pinned posts in the UK law section. 

 

It's tough love I'm afraid mate. Not being able own a RIF put me off Airsoft for years.

 

You could always use the rentals at your locals to avoid using IF guns. 

 

 

 

[Tommikka]

It’s legal for you to paint your clock black, but the hands would also need painting to a contrasting colour

 

But you are not old enough to buy either a RIF or a two tone, and are not eligible for the UKARA scheme to cover your status as a skirmisher

 

There’s nothing wrong with you playing at airsoft events with a two tone or to use a rental 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Tommikka said:

It’s legal for you to paint your clock black, but the hands would also need painting to a contrasting colour

 

Bwahahahaha 🦄🦄

[Rogerborg]

On 11/12/2018 at 18:30, T5dogz said:

no its not legal you are to young to have one in any case you can use one if supervised by an adult over 18  

 

Almost, but not quite, a complete crock of shit.  I assume that's air guns that you're thinking of, not airsoft IF/RIFs.

 

The "not quite" part is that it is indeed illegal to modify an IF into a RIF.

 

A person is guilty of an offence if he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

 

It's always an offence, for anyone.  But is age a factor?

 

It shall be a defence for a person charged with [modification] in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in subsection. Those purposes are...

 

Is age a factor?

...the organisation and holding of permitted activities for which public liability insurance is held in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of those activities;

 

Is age a factor?

 

The regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities”

 

Is age a factor?

 

So, chummy here can't legally purchase a RIF or an IF, on that we can agree.  He can be gifted either.  No offence is committed by that, or by possession in private.

 

As to modifying it, he's in the same boat as everyone else.  If caught, charged and prosecuted, it is for him to show that his conduct was only for the purposes of (e.g.) airsoft skirmishing.  Age is not a factor. UKARA is neither necessary, nor necessarily sufficient for, for reasons that I've gone over before.

 

 

All that said, please don't do it.  You could fill books with what the average copper doesn't know about IF / RIF law.  If they catch you waving your big black clock Glock around in public without a cast iron reason, then you're looking at a Firearms Act offence, let alone a VCRA one.  Strictly speaking, an IF carries the same risk, but in practice, day-glo means that they're less likely to trigger an armed response.

 

Here's what I'd suggest.  Go to three airsoft skirmishes over at least 8 weeks (proper ones, as an insured site, not running around pewing your mates in the woods).  You can then show exactly the same evidence as to your intent as any other airsofter with a UKARA number.

 

Once you've done that, and your parents are onboard, and you've got your face known at the site as a responsible, mature player, then some solutions will likely present themselves.

 

But skirmish first, guns later.

[MisterG]

At that age (13), the sites I play at would require you to have an adult present, though not necessarily play. 

 

Is someone taking you to play?  If they are ALSO playing they could get UKARA in their name and gift you a RIF, e.g. for Xmas.

 

Cheers

G

[Rogerborg]

To be honest, I expect we'll never hear from this chap again.

[Whillo]

7 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Almost, but not quite, a complete crock of shit.  I assume that's air guns that you're thinking of, not airsoft IF/RIFs.

 

The "not quite" part is that it is indeed illegal to modify an IF into a RIF.

 

A person is guilty of an offence if he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

 

It's always an offence, for anyone.  But is age a factor?

 

It shall be a defence for a person charged with [modification] in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in subsection. Those purposes are...

 

Is age a factor?

...the organisation and holding of permitted activities for which public liability insurance is held in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of those activities;

 

Is age a factor?

 

The regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities”

 

Is age a factor?

 

So, chummy here can't legally purchase a RIF or an IF, on that we can agree.  He can be gifted either.  No offence is committed by that, or by possession in private.

 

As to modifying it, he's in the same boat as everyone else.  If caught, charged and prosecuted, it is for him to show that his conduct was only for the purposes of (e.g.) airsoft skirmishing.  Age is not a factor. UKARA is neither necessary, nor necessarily sufficient for, for reasons that I've gone over before.

 

 

All that said, please don't do it.  You could fill books with what the average copper doesn't know about IF / RIF law.  If they catch you waving your big black <s>clock</s> Glock around in public without a cast iron reason, then you're looking at a Firearms Act offence, let alone a VCRA one.  Strictly speaking, an IF carries the same risk, but in practice, day-glo means that they're less likely to trigger an armed response.

 

Here's what I'd suggest.  Go to three airsoft skirmishes over at least 8 weeks (proper ones, as an insured site, not running around pewing your mates in the woods).  You can then show exactly the same evidence as to your intent as any other airsofter with a UKARA number.

 

Once you've done that, and your parents are onboard, and you've got your face known at the site as a responsible, mature player, then some solutions will likely present themselves.

 

But skirmish first, guns later.

Cheers for all that information, Came in handy. Looks like another 5 years waiting....

 

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, Whillo said:

Cheers for all that information, Came in handy. Looks like another 5 years waiting....

 

That's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike what I just wrote.

[T5dogz]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 09:54, Rogerborg said:

 

Almost, but not quite, a complete crock of shit.  I assume that's air guns that you're thinking of, not airsoft IF/RIFs.

 

The "not quite" part is that it is indeed illegal to modify an IF into a RIF.

 

A person is guilty of an offence if he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

 

It's always an offence, for anyone.  But is age a factor?

 

It shall be a defence for a person charged with [modification] in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in subsection. Those purposes are...

 

Is age a factor?

...the organisation and holding of permitted activities for which public liability insurance is held in relation to liabilities to third parties arising from or in connection with the organisation and holding of those activities;

 

Is age a factor?

 

The regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities”

 

Is age a factor?

 

So, chummy here can't legally purchase a RIF or an IF, on that we can agree.  He can be gifted either.  No offence is committed by that, or by possession in private.

 

As to modifying it, he's in the same boat as everyone else.  If caught, charged and prosecuted, it is for him to show that his conduct was only for the purposes of (e.g.) airsoft skirmishing.  Age is not a factor. UKARA is neither necessary, nor necessarily sufficient for, for reasons that I've gone over before.

 

 

All that said, please don't do it.  You could fill books with what the average copper doesn't know about IF / RIF law.  If they catch you waving your big black clock Glock around in public without a cast iron reason, then you're looking at a Firearms Act offence, let alone a VCRA one.  Strictly speaking, an IF carries the same risk, but in practice, day-glo means that they're less likely to trigger an armed response.

 

Here's what I'd suggest.  Go to three airsoft skirmishes over at least 8 weeks (proper ones, as an insured site, not running around pewing your mates in the woods).  You can then show exactly the same evidence as to your intent as any other airsofter with a UKARA number.

 

Once you've done that, and your parents are onboard, and you've got your face known at the site as a responsible, mature player, then some solutions will likely present themselves.

 

But skirmish first, guns later.

thanks for putting me right on the complete crock of shit you could not have put it more succinctly  

[Rogerborg]

I could have been terser, but I like to put some art into it.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

Whillo i really do feel for ya - i had my first skirmish at 13 and have been obsessed since. Hopefully this doesn't put you off skirmishing - maybe take a look at some video game skins for inspiration? Doesn't have to be tactical to look cool. Cheers and good luck!

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

The law is rather mad.

 

Unless I am mistaken the way I read is that  - it is illegal to manufacture something that is legal to own.

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, CrackCommandoUnit1972 said:

The law is rather mad.

 

Unless I am mistaken the way I read is that  - it is illegal to manufacture something that is legal to own.

Manufacture, import and sale (and modification) are all offences under section 36 .... and all the section 37 defences apply to those (and the additional Secretary of State exemptions under which skirmishing counts) 

 

If it’s manufactured, imported, sold or modified into a RIF for the purposes of skirmishing then the defence is valid

 

 

The difference with ‘legal to own’ goes back to pre-owned RIFs prior to the act coming into force and that the owner does not commit an offence under the VCRA but the manufacturer, importer, seller, modifier would be committing an offence if not taking reasonable steps to ensure the final owner would’nt be valid under the acts definitions 

[Rogerborg]

Pragmatically, it's easier to criminalise and convict supply rather than possession, particularly possession in private.

 

Make no mistake that the anti assault-style-toy lobby will keep on nibbling away at that though.

[Resistor170]

On 20/12/2018 at 19:00, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

Whillo i really do feel for ya - i had my first skirmish at 13 and have been obsessed since. Hopefully this doesn't put you off skirmishing - maybe take a look at some video game skins for inspiration? Doesn't have to be tactical to look cool. Cheers and good luck!

Just make sure you are old enough to play the video games too 😉

[Immortal]

I love seeing full battle dress hardcore skirmishers having toddler meltdowns when a two tone tracksuit taps them up.

 

Just go play! Be thankful you have an IF, I didn't at your age.... although I did have an air file I used to do combat roles round the garden shooting potatoes. lol (didn't last long as I found the rifle could shoot through 3 garden fences shortly after... this was back in the Stone Age and as an ignorant yute)

[padraigthesniper]

If your airsoft gun magically turns black after going missing then i see no crime there...

[Tommikka]

4 hours ago, padraigthesniper said:

If your airsoft gun magically turns black after going missing then i see no crime there...

If it ‘magically’ turns black even when missing, particularly one owned by a 13 year old, then the crime/offence is likely to have occurred.

 

Evidence of the crime would be circumstantial, and its not the top priority to hunt down RIF painters

[padraigthesniper]

On 25/01/2019 at 07:32, Tommikka said:

If it ‘magically’ turns black even when missing, particularly one owned by a 13 year old, then the crime/offence is likely to have occurred.

 

Evidence of the crime would be circumstantial, and its not the top priority to hunt down RIF painters

But what if someone stole it and painted it then returned because they didn't want it anymore...

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, padraigthesniper said:

But what if someone stole it and painted it then returned because they didn't want it anymore...

Then 2 crimes have been committed

[padraigthesniper]

15 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Then 2 crimes have been committed

Okay but what happens if you own a two tone gun and you leave it in your loft for 5 years, but then when you get it 5 years later all the paint has flaked off? 

[jcheeseright]

7 minutes ago, padraigthesniper said:

Okay but what happens if you own a two tone gun and you leave it in your loft for 5 years, but then when you get it 5 years later all the paint has flaked off? 

 

What kind of paint do you think they use? Poster paint? 

[Prisce]

It sounds to me like someone is trying to find an excuse to break the law.