Reason to not trust anyone with your own safety?

[Druid799]

So this popped up on my home sites Facebook page today 

Seen it on a couple of other pages since then and more than a few comments blaming poor marshaling or poor site management , now don’t know what site it happened at as names have been blanked out so don’t know what the site safety brief is like but all the sites I’ve ever been to say no dry firing or mags in guns in the safezone and you have to mag out fire a few shots to clear before your allowed back in , so if these rules have been followed I’d like to know how can it be the site/marshals fault if a player has decided to break said rules ? 

Discuss .

[Adolf Hamster]

i keep my eye pro on anywhere but the safe zone, and i'll give a right bollocking to anyone i see with a mag in.

 

the attitude of some folk is shocking, mag in, gun on full auto, cradling it in their arms with the barrel sweeping at eye height.

 

it takes seconds to clear most airsoft guns so why folk don't do it is beyond me.

 

even more annoying when they get arsey when you call them on it, f*** those guys

[Albiscuit]

Playing mostly exclusivly at The Mall and or with EAG has taught me good discipline in the safe zone, both have strict rules and procedures regarding eye pro safe zone and dry firing etc... (I know EAG have  had their fair share of stories and have witnessed one such act which was stupidly dangerous and questioned whether I would return, but I did) 

Some of the stories I hear are shocking. I dont know why all sites are not stricter and use similar rules!!

 

Also the "right lads gather round, the games are over you can take off eye pro on our way back to the safe zone" gets on my tits. What about the twats not listening or the ones shooting their mates in the arse, not thanks I will keep mine on out in the field, game on or not!!!

[P13]

I know the site where this happened, and they’re briefing and approach to safety is faultless. 

 

They really do echo the safety instructions all day too, there is mags out, clear chamber, barrel sock on rules before entering the safe zone for primary’s and mags out, clear chamber, pistol holstered or slide locked back at all times. 

 

This is happened as a result of a single person acting the idiot, almost lucky in a way he didn’t do serious damage. Rules are put into place for the protection of others for there safety, it is a shame people don’t respect them and follow. This could have resulted in some severe long lasting damage.

 

Even worse that the guy that has fired the shot has played the site a few times, and should be fully aware of the dangers behind his actions. 

 

 

[clumpyedge]

This seems much like the kid that lost his eye due to playing with his mates gun in the safe zone and the gun discharging and going in his own eye (he was looking down the barrel) unfortunately being a marshal/site owner you can only do so much to protect people but you cant protect people from their own stupidity. A fair amount of sites that I go to say that as soon as you are unpacking gear eye pro needs to be on at all times until the end of the day purely for the reason I mentioned above.

Bar the obvious of standing at the entrance of the safe zone and watching each person clear their weapons again marshals can only do so much. We always walk about during downtime between games having a peak into seating areas but we cant be in all places at the same time.

 

I'd be interested to hear the full story about this when/where (area of the site)/how it happened.

[Adolf Hamster]

2 hours ago, P13 said:

Even worse that the guy that has fired the shot has played the site a few times, and should be fully aware of the dangers behind his actions. 

 

this really grinds my gears, you could almost forgive a rental kid but when it's someone who should damn well know better.

 

 

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, P13 said:

Even worse that the guy that has fired the shot has played the site a few times

 

Will be he playing there again?

 

 

To their credit, the Depot is very thorough at checking for mags out when entering the safe zone (I keep getting pulled up as my AEP only has a small magwell compared to a gas gun) and reminding players to clear their hops.

 

However, there's no prohibition on dry firing in the safe zone, and to be honest, I do check my guns after I've put a battery in.  I always do so with the barrel pressed into the inside of my gun bag, but not everybody does, and there's a constant rattle of full auto dry firing in the mornings which does rather bug me.

 

I suspect it will only change when someone does lose an eye, and I hereby resolve to wear a pair of safety glasses (not my big fan goggles) while in the safe zone in future.  For one thing, I've seen a CO2 bulb escape from a gun and go shooting off like a rocket, so the definition of "safe" is somewhat flexible.

[clumpyedge]

Just now, Rogerborg said:

 

Will be he playing there again?

 

 

To their credit, the Depot is very thorough at checking for mags out when entering the safe zone (I keep getting pulled up as my AEP only has a small magwell compared to a gas gun) and reminding players to clear their hops.

 

However, there's no prohibition on dry firing in the safe zone, and to be honest, I do check my guns after I've put a battery in.  I always do so with the barrel pressed into the inside of my gun bag, but not everybody does, and there's a constant rattle of full auto dry firing in the mornings which does rather bug me.

 

I suspect it will only change when someone does lose an eye, and I hereby resolve to wear a pair of safety glasses (not my big fan goggles) while in the safe zone in future.  For one thing, I've seen a CO2 bulb escape from a gun and go shooting off like a rocket, so the definition of "safe" is somewhat flexible.

 

The site i marshal has a rule of no dry firing and that if you want to test your gun is working then take it to the range which is enclosed and surrounded by protective surround. Having said that some sites don't have a range but cant see why they couldn't let people take a step into the game zone from the safe area and make sure their guns are working to get rid of that issue.

If you wanted to mitigate majority of risk around the safe zone batteries shouldn't be connected until you are ready to chrono, same as putting a bulb in and then batteries are disconnected/removing mag afterwards but I know that would seem way to laborious to most if not all.

[BigStew]

When I marshal I tend be on end of game weapons check  Even after calling clear guns at the end of game we still check everyone as the come into the safe zone it gets depressing how little attention people are paying to their guns. Point being sites have to have constant vigilance because there to many careless people about. 

[clumpyedge]

7 minutes ago, BigStew said:

When I marshal I tend be on end of game weapons check  Even after calling clear guns at the end of game we still check everyone as the come into the safe zone it gets depressing how little attention people are paying to their guns. Point being sites have to have constant vigilance because there to many careless people about. 

 

Same here.. and people still try and walk past.

 

Peoples muzzle discipline makes me wonder how many airsofters would be left if let loose with real guns.

[M_P]

In my mind every site should have a marshall by the safe zone checking every mag is out and have everyone fire off a couple of shots before entering after each game and then no dry firing once in the SZ.

 

Most players should know better but unfortunately many seem not to. 

[Druid799]

4 hours ago, P13 said:

I know the site where this happened, and they’re briefing and approach to safety is faultless. 

 

They really do echo the safety instructions all day too, there is mags out, clear chamber, barrel sock on rules before entering the safe zone for primary’s and mags out, clear chamber, pistol holstered or slide locked back at all times. 

 

This is happened as a result of a single person acting the idiot, almost lucky in a way he didn’t do serious damage. Rules are put into place for the protection of others for there safety, it is a shame people don’t respect them and follow. This could have resulted in some severe long lasting damage.

 

 

I’ve lost count of the number of times at my home site when entering the safezone I’ve been pulled up by a marshal when using my L119 as it has a ready mag on it With an empty mag shell I use for the battery (it’s a running joke with the ones I’d say I’m friends with now) but just shows how shit hot they are on safety that even though they know me AND they now have a good idea it’s my gun with the ready mag they still check the magwell is empty ‘just in case’ ? 

Rules are rules but you just can’t control stupidity or do they higher enough marshals to have one on every table in the safezone and we end up paying £85 for a gameday due to the staff numbers ? 

[clumpyedge]

Just now, Druid799 said:

I’ve lost count of the number of times at my home site when entering the safezone I’ve been pulled up by a marshal when using my L119 as it has a ready mag on it With an empty mag shell I use for the battery (it’s a running joke with the ones I’d say I’m friends with now) but just shows how shit hot they are on safety that even though they know me AND they know have a good idea it’s my gun with the ready mag they still check the magwell is empty ‘just in case’ ? 

Rules are rules but you just can’t control stupidity , or do they higher enough marshals to have one on every table in the safezone and we end up paying £85 for a gameday due to the staff numbers ? 

 

 

Same with LMG's our site rule is the mag can be connected but the battery has to be disconnected or in the case of some LMG's the mag feed line must be disconnected and fired to clear.

[M_P]

5 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

I’ve lost count of the number of times at my home site when entering the safezone I’ve been pulled up by a marshal when using my L119 as it has a ready mag on it With an empty mag shell I use for the battery (it’s a running joke with the ones I’d say I’m friends with now) but just shows how shit hot they are on safety that even though they know me AND they now have a good idea it’s my gun with the ready mag they still check the magwell is empty ‘just in case’ ? 

Rules are rules but you just can’t control stupidity or do they higher enough marshals to have one on every table in the safezone and we end up paying £85 for a gameday due to the staff numbers ? 

That should be the standard at all sites and sounds like yours is really on top of it. Doesn't matter if you're a regular and they know your guns etc, checks should be performed everytime

[Druid799]

26 minutes ago, M_P said:

That should be the standard at all sites and sounds like yours is really on top of it. Doesn't matter if you're a regular and they know your guns etc, checks should be performed everytime

It’s black ops Cribbs in Bristol , and yup they are ! 👍

[Albiscuit]

There is no excuse for crap marshalling and sloppy rules on a site. We know as players its a potentially dangerous game and they do all they can to pass blame with waivers and warnings etc but some good training and discipline will take an average site into a well run one! I dont see how many sites can get it wrong.

 

There will always be human error and idiots in the safe zone, we know this, but by reinforcing the rules and the dangers after each game with weapons checks and marshals being present in the safe zone in between games (on so many sites they all fuck off somewhere and you can never find someone for help or to ask a question) you can help lower the odds and the site will seem to be run more professionally than others and gain a better reputation = more customers = more money!! 

Tis quite simple business sense!

[E21A]

1 hour ago, M_P said:

In my mind every site should have a marshall by the safe zone checking every mag is out and have everyone fire off a couple of shots before entering after each game and then no dry firing once in the SZ.

 

Most players should know better but unfortunately many seem not to. 

 

This is exactly how it is at my local. 

[Sacarathe]

The last 10 airsoft games I went to I had game zone eye pro (full seal goggles) and safe zone eye pro (shooting glasses rated safe for gamezone), I was never without eye pro. Of course, those of us with only one fully functional eye have to take this shit super seriously.

 

 

I've had several safe zone accidents myself, damn scorpion evo trigger/selector, but I've never discharged a BB.

 

[Duff]

13 minutes ago, Sacarathe said:

The last 10 airsoft games I went to I had game zone eye pro (full seal goggles) and safe zone eye pro (shooting glasses rated safe for gamezone), I was never without eye pro. Of course, those of us with only one fully functional eye have to take this shit super seriously.

 

 

I've had several safe zone accidents myself, damn scorpion evo trigger/selector, but I've never discharged a BB.

 

 

You lost your eyesight due to airsoft?

[Sacarathe]

8 minutes ago, Duff said:

You lost your eyesight due to airsoft?

 

No. Just no spare eye.

[Rogerborg]

5 minutes ago, Sacarathe said:

The last 10 airsoft games I went to I had game zone eye pro (full seal goggles) and safe zone eye pro (shooting glasses rated safe for gamezone), I was never without eye pro.

 

That is a good shout. As god is my witness, I will never be without eyepro again.

 

 

39 minutes ago, Albiscuit said:

There is no excuse for crap marshalling

 

To be fair, there's the pragmatic situation that marshals may be unpaid volunteers, gifting their time instead of playing.  I'd hesitate to point a finger and say "You're doing a bad job, at the job I won't do!"

 

I say I'd hesitate because if I lose an eye in the safe zone, you can be damn sure I'll be going after the deepest pockets around, volunteers or not.  The silly waivers that sites make us sign are a waste of ink - you can't disclaim away a statutory duty of care, and the more you say "TERRRRRIBAD DANGER!" the bigger stick you're making for your own back when you fail in that duty.

 

Incidentally, unpaid volunteers can be liable where a duty of care is established: see Vowles vs Evans and the WRU.  Something to bear in mind if you're tempted to volunteer to marshal.

[Sacarathe]

1 minute ago, Rogerborg said:

Something to bear in mind if you're tempted to volunteer to marshal.

 

Especially if you have deep pockets.

[Duff]

9 minutes ago, Sacarathe said:

 

No. Just no spare eye.

 

Oh thank God. 

[djben9]

2 hours ago, M_P said:

In my mind every site should have a marshall by the safe zone checking every mag is out and have everyone fire off a couple of shots before entering after each game and then no dry firing once in the SZ.

 

Most players should know better but unfortunately many seem not to. 

All sites i play at, this happens, only site where dry firing is apparent occasionally , is Urban Assault. Its not supposed to but people do as they just dont listen to safety briefing but talk through it or dont read the rules on the email

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Albiscuit said:

There is no excuse for crap marshalling and sloppy rules on a site. We know as players its a potentially dangerous game and they do all they can to pass blame with waivers and warnings etc but some good training and discipline will take an average site into a well run one! I dont see how many sites can get it wrong.

 

There will always be human error and idiots in the safe zone, we know this, but by reinforcing the rules and the dangers after each game with weapons checks and marshals being present in the safe zone in between games (on so many sites they all fuck off somewhere and you can never find someone for help or to ask a question) you can help lower the odds and the site will seem to be run more professionally than others and gain a better reputation = more customers = more money!! 

Tis quite simple business sense!

How many marshals does your sit have on a game day ? How many players ? How bigs the safezone ? Is it one big room or multiple rooms ? All questions relevant to this discussion.

Does your sites marshals walk around the safezone continually scanning the players like prison officers checking there not breaking any site rules ? I’ve never seen it at any site I’ve been too .

Your point about the marshals disappearing in between games , we pay to go there and play , we’re all adults (and one would hope any under 18s are with a supervising adult) so quite frankly once the rules have been given why should they continually police the safezone ? When you go to a pub are the pub staff continually walking around watching your every move ? No , they assess you when you first enter and then when you go too the bar to get more drinks and when there collecting empty’s .

So me personally I really fail to see how this can be crap marshalling and sloppy rules if a player decides he or she are above the rules and breaks them ?

you can not control stupidity , ultimately you reach a point where you have to rely on people policing them selves .