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THE TM MWS thread


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3 hours ago, Hypokondrikern said:

@RMDavis

 

my quick google search revealed some scribbles and doodles on the stocks. Carve / paint yourself into history :) 

 

Current work in progress, but added some more weathering to the paint using some warhammer shade stain, and some sniper tape on the grips!

 

20210411_135751.jpg

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23 minutes ago, RMDavis said:

 

Current work in progress, but added some more weathering to the paint using some warhammer shade stain, and some sniper tape on the grips!

 

20210411_135751.jpg

Jeez, some people just don't take care of their gear 🤣

 

Spoiler

Nice job

 

Edited by EDcase
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Today was my designated tinkering day with the MWS before my first post-lockdown game next Sunday at Spartan Woodland, Bristol.

 

I have set the MWS up with all stock bolt, nozzle and valve (NOTE: I have taken 0.15mm off the back of the valve to up the output to about 10fps). Running 0.30g BBs through a CrazyJet 250mm barrel, Modify tan bucking and Laylax hop arm. The shed was a balmy 13degC (or there abouts) and the mags and gas were all at ambient temperature. I gave each mag a 5sec fill, in bursts of 1s and then left for 5mins to let the temp settle. 

 

Each gas was given 5 shots over the chrono, with 1s gaps. I often finished up with some full auto to check on cool-down.

 

***All FPS given as 0.20g BB equivalents***

 

Nuprol WHITE = 330fps. Still very snappy shooting and not much cool down after 20rd full auto!

Nuprol GREEN = 340fps. Benchmark for regular "green" gas. Does cool down a bit.

Nuprol RED = 395fps. Eek, well over the limit so I would keep for days when the temps are in single digits.

Abbey Vertex Predator = 341fps. Apparently a "powerful gas for heavy weapons" - or just another green gas in an orange can :)

ASG Ultrair = 340fps. Pretty much the same as any other green gas, but Patrolbase have a "Two for £10" offer so I have 8 cans of the damn stuff!

 

Interesting that the difference in Nuprol WHITE and GREEN is only 10fps. I purchased that can for an old TM MP7 I had that (with a tight bore barrel) was WAAAAY too hot to use. That dropped the fps by 20-30 IIRC. Maybe the MWS is just a very efficient system?

 

I checked the accuracy and zeroed the Visionking LPVO scope. 34mm group at 12m bench rested. Should be ok for hitting man sized target at 20-50m.

Edited by SSPKali
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Interesting, I just chrono’d a customer CQBR, 250mm 6.03, Modify tan, Super Nub, HSB, stock valve, otherwise stock, freshly serviced 😉

 

With Abbey Vertex @ similar temperature; 360 FPS

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6 minutes ago, GothicGhost said:

Does anyone know the length of the CQB block 1 uppper?

 

Not sure if it would fit in my gun bag  split into two sections.

Thank you.

Tokyo-Marui-CQB-R-Block-1-GBB-With-ZET-System.jpg

I can fit an ares ameoba 013 in my 511 gun bag when its split

Regards

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On 10/04/2021 at 08:50, RMDavis said:

I think we can all agree that Angry Gun QC is very hit and miss! 

 

My clone Surefire suppressor from them is fantastic and I haven't had any issues with it, and works perfectly with my Acetech Lighter-S tracer unit.

 

The Milspec Buffer Tube also fitted without issue and definitely took the slop out of my Car-15 Stock. 

 

However their Maritime Bolt Catch is utter garbage! I initially fitted it to my URGI-1 build as it's part of the Geissele package.

 

But with the bcg in the rearward position as soon as you press the mag release to put in a fresh one, it touches the bolt catch on the other side and throws the bcg forward... 😂 

 

I had to use a dremmel and remove material from the underside so it no longer made contact...

 

Mate of mine just bought the l119a2 ambi mag release from them for his mws and it flat out doesn't work whatsoever, there's not enough material to hold the mag in place. 

 

I mean look at their latest release, the A2 Outer barrels...

 

Who releases a product, that is not fit for purpose and then announces that with a post on Facebook and tells everyone how much material they need to remove with a file!? 

 

To make their shitty product fit! 😳

 

They are absolute shit lol.

 

I have had loads of AG parts, all but one of them have problems..they clearly test nothing! There is no other explanation for it. 

 

Ag nozzle, weird full auto so removed.

 

Ag bolt (sf version) piston wouldn't fit, also spring retainer wouldn't go in without modding.

 

Ag outer barrel, hop issues when installed

 

Ag maritime bolt catch, sticks out about 3mm more than a real one, so you cannot wind the mag release enough to seat it properly. They even admitted to me they screwed it up!

 

Ag mag release, fell in half first use lol..pin just fell out! 

 

Ag charging handle, roll pins just fall out

 

Ag lightweight bolt catch, needed heavy filing to move freely.

 

Ag urgi v2 rail, will not fit an mws without their adapter ring which only comes with their outer barrel set which causes hop problems! The v1 rail was fine and had a more durable finish.

 

Saying that, my flash hider is perfectly fine, even they would struggle to fuck that up. 

 

They clearly make things based on pictures on the Internet, this is why everything is out of spec..then they clearly do not test finished products on a base mws but on modified ones made from their parts. 

 

I hope they go out of business. 

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Now that I’ve found out the angry gun barrels are shit I have ordered one of the g&p mws barrels. What do you folks think of those or should I cancel the order and get a z parts one. 
 

also had a strange problem with a stock mk18 today. Put about 10 mags through it over a game day today. Used a maximum of 5 shots in one go and the temp was about 16 degrees so I don’t think I had cool down problems. Most mags were fine but on two occasions they behaved as if they were running out of gas halfway through the mag. Any idea what could cause this. Any ideas? And thanks for your input.   

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Is the piston seal lubed or dryed out?

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1 hour ago, Whereismyhammer said:

Now that I’ve found out the angry gun barrels are shit I have ordered one of the g&p mws barrels. What do you folks think of those or should I cancel the order and get a z parts one. 
 

also had a strange problem with a stock mk18 today. Put about 10 mags through it over a game day today. Used a maximum of 5 shots in one go and the temp was about 16 degrees so I don’t think I had cool down problems. Most mags were fine but on two occasions they behaved as if they were running out of gas halfway through the mag. Any idea what could cause this. Any ideas? And thanks for your input.   

 

My G&P MRE rail came complete with its own outer barrel and I haven't had any issues whatsoever with fitment, and no hop problems when shooting etc.

 

Just my own personal experiences of course, but providing your happy with the barrel you've picked I think your good to go bud. 👍 

 

On a complete contrast to Angry Gun everything made from G&P fitted to my MRE build has been perfect. 

 

Rail, outer barrel, charging handle, ambi mag release, qd rear sling plate, ambi fire selector. 

 

I wouldn't hesitate to buy any external parts for the MWS from them.

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1 hour ago, Davegolf said:

Is the piston seal lubed or dryed out?

A friend of mine who is more knowledgeable than me suggested the same thing. I took it apart and gave it a clean it was potentially over lubed as you say. Cheers for the advice and I will see how it runs next game. 

39 minutes ago, RMDavis said:

 

My G&P MRE rail came complete with its own outer barrel and I haven't had any issues whatsoever with fitment, and no hop problems when shooting etc.

 

Just my own personal experiences of course, but providing your happy with the barrel you've picked I think your good to go bud. 👍 

 

On a complete contrast to Angry Gun everything made from G&P fitted to my MRE build has been perfect. 

 

Rail, outer barrel, charging handle, ambi mag release, qd rear sling plate, ambi fire selector. 

 

I wouldn't hesitate to buy any external parts for the MWS from them.

That’s very reassuring. Good to know and thanks for replying 

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10 hours ago, Davegolf said:

Interesting, I just chrono’d a customer CQBR, 250mm 6.03, Modify tan, Super Nub, HSB, stock valve, otherwise stock, freshly serviced 😉

 

With Abbey Vertex @ similar temperature; 360 FPS

I found that the little valve spring can make a big difference.

 

I tried the set up with the well used TM spring and a newer, stiffer and longer (Ooh matron!) RATech one.

 

The RA tech spring gave another 10-15fps as it kept the valve open longer. I am guessing that might explain the difference along with minor variations in hop applied and chrono tollerences.

 

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Yes power tuning is all in the floating valve for the most part, the rest is efficiency/air tightness

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13 hours ago, quango2k said:

Ag charging handle, roll pins just fall out


Not to puncture anything but I have to warn folks that this also happened to my PTS raptor as I opened it from the box... Not the end of the world, however, I find it disappointing having to fix a new part which costed 50 euros....

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Second MWS has arrived! Man... I never get tired of unboxing these things. And the brilliant finish they come with from the factory. I rattle canned my first MWS, so think this one will stay pristine. I have a civilian style build in mind for this one with a 13.5 M-LOK rail.

 

 

 

IMG_0391.jpg

Edited by demandt
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Guys, I did some FPS testing way back in January using a G&P BCG and a Marui BCG. 

 

For those who want to know what power you get from using Abbey Ultra Predator gas (the one that comes in a red can) see the attached pic. I did some testing using 0.3 Geoffs and 0.2 Excels at a temperature of 20c (I do believe). The left side shows a G&P bolt carrier group. On the right is the standard Marui bolt. The max figure for the G&P bolt was 387fps!! With the Marui bolt it was 329fps on 0.2s. Interesting results eh? The mag was filled up each time fresh of course which explains the initial high power.

 

The main reason for the G&P bolt having a higher output is the floating valve in the nozzle. Obviously it's set to allow more gas to get pumped into the valve. Yes I can remedy this with a G&P NPAS which I do have but just haven't got round to installing it.... I will do at some point and then report back... (but don't hold me to that lol)

 

E71CA959-B832-4185-9094-2B6E3AA31BAA.jpeg.2a2f81eb33b3779c76af49ff669e26b9.jpeg

Edited by AlphaBear
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6 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

Guys, I did some FPS testing way back in January using a G&P BCG and a Marui BCG. 

 

For those who want to know what power you get from using Abbey Ultra Predator gas (the one that comes in a red can) see the attached pic. I did some testing using 0.3 Geoffs and 0.2 Excels at a temperature of 20c (I do believe). The left side shows a G&P bolt carrier group. On the right is the standard Marui bolt. The max figure for the G&P bolt was 387fps!! With the Marui bolt it was 329fps on 0.2s. Interesting results eh? The mag was filled up each time fresh of course which explains the initial high power.

 

The main reason for the G&P bolt having a higher output is the floating valve in the nozzle. Obviously it's set to allow more gas to get pumped into the valve. Yes I can remedy this with a G&P NPAS which I do have but just haven't got round to installing it.... I will do at some point and then report back... (but don't hold me to that lol)

 

E71CA959-B832-4185-9094-2B6E3AA31BAA.jpeg.2a2f81eb33b3779c76af49ff669e26b9.jpeg

Solid work 👍🏻 I notice that there isn't a linear relationship between the 0.30g and 0.20g results - Take for example the TM bolt set up with an average of 285fps on a 0.30g, the same energy 0.20g BB should be going about 350fps....but the result is only about 320fps. I guess this is to do with the acceleration of heavier BBs, time to clear the barrel and effect on how fast the rocket valve closes. In all AEGs I have tested shooting at 285fps with 0.30g will always fire a 0.20g at 350fps just by changing the ammo weight.

 

So well below the limit if tested at a site on 0.20g BB, but as soon as you put in 0.30gs to play and it might be (slightly) over the limit 🧐 

 

UPDATE:
I have just tested my stock bolt/nozzle MWS with both 0.20g and 0.30g BBs (same brand, ASG gas, 11degC in the shed) and found that over 10 shots:

0.20g BB = 312 fps / 0.9 Joules

0.30g BB = 270 fps / 1.02 Joules

0.36g BB = 244 fps / 1.0 Joules ***UPDATED*** Looks like the short barrel and valve design keeps the power within Japanese limits even with very heavy ammo (IIRC TMs' are designed around 0.25g) ***UPDATED***

 

If I "adjust" the 0.30g BBs to equate them to 0.20g giving the same power predicted average is 331 fps, about 20fps difference :)

 

I have a Dynamic Precision valve coming with my FireSupport order so will give that a try with the exact same set up and see what difference the alloy (heavier) valve will make. I am guessing a boost to the power / fps.

Edited by SSPKali
added info for 0.36g BBs as it was niggling that I didn't test them too!
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What is the current hop rubber of choice for the MWS these days?  I really rate the blue Modify X, it’s very accurate, but they’re costing me £12 a go and they don’t last 5 minutes.  I put a brand new one in, and just 1000 bb’s later it is chewed up to buggery, and all over the place. Talk about the light that shines twice as brightly burns half as long. 

 

I think it’s just too soft, and is designed to be used in VSR type guns, which would never fire 1000 bb’s in 2 weeks.

 

I’m running a 303x 6.02mm inner barrel, with a wide, open window and Dave’s nub. 

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1 hour ago, SSPKali said:

Solid work 👍🏻 I notice that there isn't a linear relationship between the 0.30g and 0.20g results - Take for example the TM bolt set up with an average of 285fps on a 0.30g, the same energy 0.20g BB should be going about 350fps....but the result is only about 320fps. I guess this is to do with the acceleration of heavier BBs, time to clear the barrel and effect on how fast the rocket valve closes. In all AEGs I have tested shooting at 285fps with 0.30g will always fire a 0.20g at 350fps just by changing the ammo weight.

 

So well below the limit if tested at a site on 0.20g BB, but as soon as you put in 0.30gs to play and it might be (slightly) over the limit 🧐 

Exactly. You’d think a 285 FPS 0.3 bb would them churn out the equivalent  0.20 bb at 350fps but my tests clearly showed that was not happening. With an AEG definitely the relationship would be almost linear as you said in your post. GBBRs are not an exact science. They are just fun to use. 
 

Here is a thought. It could well be the quality of the 0.2bbs they were Excels and pretty old too. Dare I say it about 6-7 yrs old maybe more. I do have some newer 0.2s so I’ll give them a go at the weekend and see what transpires. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Darling said:

What is the current hop rubber of choice for the MWS these days?  I really rate the blue Modify X, it’s very accurate, but they’re costing me £12 a go and they don’t last 5 minutes.  I put a brand new one in, and just 1000 bb’s later it is chewed up to buggery, and all over the place. Talk about the light that shines twice as brightly burns half as long. 

 

I think it’s just too soft, and is designed to be used in VSR type guns, which would never fire 1000 bb’s in 2 weeks.

 

I’m running a 303x 6.02mm inner barrel, with a wide, open window and Dave’s nub. 


Hi! Yes as of this time, I have not come across a holistically good bucking that can outperform AND outlast the original TM bucking.

1 hour ago, AlphaBear said:

Exactly. You’d think a 285 FPS 0.3 bb would them churn out the equivalent  0.20 bb at 350fps but my tests clearly showed that was not happening. With an AEG definitely the relationship would be almost linear as you said in your post. GBBRs are not an exact science. They are just fun to use. 
 

Here is a thought. It could well be the quality of the 0.2bbs they were Excels and pretty old too. Dare I say it about 6-7 yrs old maybe more. I do have some newer 0.2s so I’ll give them a go at the weekend and see what transpires. 


You’re right on there, in a GBB your dealing with expanding volumes, temperature and pressure changes.

 

In an AEG, as long as that motor pulls your stored energy (spring) back you’re getting a repeatable output.

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1 hour ago, Captain Darling said:

What is the current hop rubber of choice for the MWS these days?  I really rate the blue Modify X, it’s very accurate, but they’re costing me £12 a go and they don’t last 5 minutes.  I put a brand new one in, and just 1000 bb’s later it is chewed up to buggery, and all over the place. Talk about the light that shines twice as brightly burns half as long. 

 

I think it’s just too soft, and is designed to be used in VSR type guns, which would never fire 1000 bb’s in 2 weeks.

 

I’m running a 303x 6.02mm inner barrel, with a wide, open window and Dave’s nub. 

I’d stick to the Marui rubber truth be told. I used the tan modify one and it lasted a few hundred rounds. It may well have been the rubber was a dodgy one, who knows. The Marui is spot on. Always keep a few in the tool box from now. 

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26 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

I’d stick to the Marui rubber truth be told. I used the tan modify one and it lasted a few hundred rounds. It may well have been the rubber was a dodgy one, who knows. The Marui is spot on. Always keep a few in the tool box from now. 


Good to know, thanks. Is it just a generic TM hop rubber then? In the olden days, it was common practice to replace them with a prommy purple wasn’t it?

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