THE TM MWS thread

[Sayrush]

So I have realised that basically everybody here already has this gun and to be honest, I am my self close on getting one my self. But I have a few concerns that make me a bit unsure of getting it and I hope you fellow already owners can clear my doubts. 

 

Now, I have fallen in love with the gas blowback mechanic, and I heard about how good this m4 from tm was,  the problem is pretty simple, I have never worked with gas outside of using gas at home for cooking to be fair. I have no idea how well this sort of gun is going to be able to perform or even survive in the somewhat cold weather we have here in Nothern Ireland, I do not expect it to compare to AEG, or to be amazing in the field, but I don´t want the gun to die on me either because it is not made to work correctly in this temperatures. Is the temperature something that would end up being a terrible problem? Any sort of help towards this would be incredible appreciated as I am really just looking for any excuse to buy it, but I have a local airsoft store owner scare me away from getting a gbbr on here Belfast, I´ve heard that it also goes down to the rifle being good? Some brands and some rifles are made better therefore being able to still perform decently in cold weathers? 

 

I apologise for asking so many questions, but thanks a lot if anybody does answer them.

Have an amazing day. 

[jsmithski]

3 hours ago, SSPKali said:

It certainly helped, and the trigger worked ok but the edges of the sears were still worn...and I love chasing incremental improvements 😁

You have the same condition as I do. Constant improvement that costs more than stock gear. 

25 minutes ago, Sayrush said:

So I have realised that basically everybody here already has this gun and to be honest, I am my self close on getting one my self. But I have a few concerns that make me a bit unsure of getting it and I hope you fellow already owners can clear my doubts. 

 

Now, I have fallen in love with the gas blowback mechanic, and I heard about how good this m4 from tm was,  the problem is pretty simple, I have never worked with gas outside of using gas at home for cooking to be fair. I have no idea how well this sort of gun is going to be able to perform or even survive in the somewhat cold weather we have here in Nothern Ireland, I do not expect it to compare to AEG, or to be amazing in the field, but I don´t want the gun to die on me either because it is not made to work correctly in this temperatures. Is the temperature something that would end up being a terrible problem? Any sort of help towards this would be incredible appreciated as I am really just looking for any excuse to buy it, but I have a local airsoft store owner scare me away from getting a gbbr on here Belfast, I´ve heard that it also goes down to the rifle being good? Some brands and some rifles are made better therefore being able to still perform decently in cold weathers? 

 

I apologise for asking so many questions, but thanks a lot if anybody does answer them.

Have an amazing day. 

Those beasts work on green gas in temperatures close to 0. They are much better than the average AEG. If you want to start your gbbr journey, go for it. You’ll end up spending a lot of money, much more than on AEGs though, and I’m not talking about repairs but simply upgrades. I own several gbbrs and I would not trade them for best in class AEGs. Never.

[Sayrush]

Quote

Those beasts work on green gas in temperatures close to 0. They are much better than the average AEG. If you want to start your gbbr journey, go for it. You’ll end up spending a lot of money, much more than on AEGs though, and I’m not talking about repairs but simply upgrades. I own several gbbrs and I would not trade them for best in class AEGs. Never.

Damn, well I am sold, and trust me, with how much I am in love with them after playing around with a sr25 from tm, I don´t mind a single bit spending money in this beauties.

[AlphaBear]

News flash:

 

Defcon have the MWS mags in... £49/pop. Get them whilst you can

 

Oh and they have the new MK18 MWS in stock too....

[ajumma]

10 hours ago, jsmithski said:

You have the same condition as I do. Constant improvement that costs more than stock gear. 

Those beasts work on green gas in temperatures close to 0. They are much better than the average AEG. If you want to start your gbbr journey, go for it. You’ll end up spending a lot of money, much more than on AEGs though, and I’m not talking about repairs but simply upgrades. I own several gbbrs and I would not trade them for best in class AEGs. Never.

 

woah woah woah hold up there, a stock TM MWS with green gas will struggle at 0°C and it's unavoidable. This kind of freezing weather is simply out of the effective operating temperature range of green gas. The chart below says that Green gas/Nuprol 2.0 at 10°C will have a pressure of 5.6 bar/81 PSI which is really weak already, even Nuprol 1.0 says that it operates at 8 bar/115PSI, at it's optimal temperature. I get around 1 magazine of "full power" shots out my a single mag fully gassed up with green gas at a temperature of 9°C. My first shot clocks in at 89m/s (281fps) and my last few end up around 79m/s (256fps) and there is a very significant difference in feel and sound between those first and last shots too. The first 10-15 shots are very consistent, but then the magazine starts to get cold as shit and the fps dips by 1m/s every other shot. Also bear in mind my magazines are the newer versions which supposedly don't require the green gas mod.

The saving grace here is that you can simply run higher pressure gas such as red (nuprol 3.0) at these kinds of temperatures. Red/Nuprol 3.0 at 10 degrees will have a pressure of 7.7 bar which is perfectly acceptable for an MWS, and if you're at sub 0 temperatures, black gas is likely your only option or HPA tapped magazines, but lets be honest we're using GBBRs so we DONT have to carry around a damn air tank so that's not an option 😁

 

Also, you can simply get a light weight/aluminium bolt to improve your gas efficiency in cold weather. There are quite a few options out there too. 

[jsmithski]

13 minutes ago, ajumma said:

 

woah woah woah hold up there, a stock TM MWS with green gas will struggle at 0°C and it's unavoidable. This kind of freezing weather is simply out of the effective operating temperature range of green gas. The chart below says that Green gas/Nuprol 2.0 at 10°C will have a pressure of 5.6 bar/81 PSI which is really weak already, even Nuprol 1.0 says that it operates at 8 bar/115PSI, at it's optimal temperature. I get around 1 magazine of "full power" shots out my a single mag fully gassed up with green gas at a temperature of 9°C. My first shot clocks in at 89m/s (281fps) and my last few end up around 79m/s (256fps) and there is a very significant difference in feel and sound between those first and last shots too. The first 10-15 shots are very consistent, but then the magazine starts to get cold as shit and the fps dips by 1m/s every other shot. Also bear in mind my magazines are the newer versions which supposedly don't require the green gas mod.

The saving grace here is that you can simply run higher pressure gas such as red (nuprol 3.0) at these kinds of temperatures. Red/Nuprol 3.0 at 10 degrees will have a pressure of 7.7 bar which is perfectly acceptable for an MWS, and if you're at sub 0 temperatures, black gas is likely your only option or HPA tapped magazines, but lets be honest we're using GBBRs so we DONT have to carry around a damn air tank so that's not an option 😁

 

Also, you can simply get a light weight/aluminium bolt to improve your gas efficiency in cold weather. There are quite a few options out there too. 

I said “close to 0”. I use 14kg green gas in temperatures not less than 10C. Below I use propylene (mapp gas) and I did not notice any issues.

[Wild Weasel]

4 hours ago, jsmithski said:

I said “close to 0”. I use 14kg green gas in temperatures not less than 10C. Below I use propylene (mapp gas) and I did not notice any issues.

Can I have a bit more detail about your mapp gas experiences please? I.e. internal upgrades, brand of mapp gas, BB weight FPS please, I asked this a page ago and nobody answered.

[jsmithski]

2 hours ago, Wild Weasel said:

Can I have a bit more detail about your mapp gas experiences please? I.e. internal upgrades, brand of mapp gas, BB weight FPS please, I asked this a page ago and nobody answered.

I don’t have any numbers, I can get it to you this weekend if I go out skirmishing as it’s going to be below 10C. Mapp gas brand does not matter, internal upgrades are not needed as mapp gas in cold weather will have same pressure output as green gas on a warm day. But indeed some math should be done here.

[Sayrush]

So basically, when it is cold gotta use a different gas. What I was just concerned about is that if you can own a MWS here in the UK and be able to use it most of the year, I do not mind if I need to upgrade it or use different gas, also. For CQB I guess it wont be as bad as the temperature inside is higher right? 

 

Thanks for everything.

[jsmithski]

8 minutes ago, Sayrush said:

So basically, when it is cold gotta use a different gas. What I was just concerned about is that if you can own a MWS here in the UK and be able to use it most of the year, I do not mind if I need to upgrade it or use different gas, also. For CQB I guess it wont be as bad as the temperature inside is higher right? 

 

Thanks for everything.

Depends on the site, I played indoor cqb in the winter where the temp was same as outside. You do not need to upgrade internals for mapp gas if you use it when it’s cold - it will have the same effect on the gun as green gas when it’s warm. The fun starts when you’re looking for more recoil or FPS or both and switch to a more powerful gas when it’s warm thus increasing the wear on internals - then you need upgrades. Anyway, gas guns are so much fun I don’t mind the additional maintenance, fiddling with it it’s also part of this hobby (at least for me).

[Sayrush]

I am still trying to figure out how to quote someone as I am new to using forums, but I have the same thing, I think they are so much fun I really don´t care about all the extra stuff that they need done. I have to be careful with wanting more FPS as here in NI we have a law that they cant go over 328fps or 1 Joule which is quite annoying to be fair. 

[jsmithski]

Today I made a DIY npas using stock floating valve and m3x8mm set screw. Works just like any other npas but I think 8mm is too long and eventually 5mm screw would be enough. I was able to get consistent FPS so I think it makes no sense in spending money on the commercial stuff. This is my second npas (first I made for the vfc mp5 gbb), it’s a simple job anyone can do.

[Davegolf]

3 hours ago, Sayrush said:

I am still trying to figure out how to quote someone as I am new to using forums, but I have the same thing, I think they are so much fun I really don´t care about all the extra stuff that they need done. I have to be careful with wanting more FPS as here in NI we have a law that they cant go over 328fps or 1 Joule which is quite annoying to be fair. 

An MWS at 1j is quite a tool, you really don’t need any more power.

 

For colder days run Red has / propane etc.

 

Upgrades wise a lightweight BCG will help cycle speeds around 0C.

 

Likewise you can run the above all year with an NPAS type valve and adjust it to suit time of year / site FPS regulations.

[Sayrush]

1 minute ago, Davegolf said:

An MWS at 1j is quite a tool, you really don’t need any more power.

 

For colder days run Red has / propane etc.

 

Upgrades wise a lightweight BCG will help cycle speeds around 0C.

 

Likewise you can run the above all year with an NPAS type valve and adjust it to suit time of year / site FPS regulations.

Thanks a lot Dave, Now with all of this semi lockdown going on in here, ill wait a bit to get my MWS but ill be getting one for sure, I will start looking into the upgrades world like the NPAS whenever I finally have it at home.

[Wild Weasel]

4 hours ago, jsmithski said:

I don’t have any numbers, I can get it to you this weekend if I go out skirmishing as it’s going to be below 10C. Mapp gas brand does not matter, internal upgrades are not needed as mapp gas in cold weather will have same pressure output as green gas on a warm day. But indeed some math should be done here.

Cheers, I'm fairly stock internally just an npas that is relevant but the bit I'm really after is the figures as I'm running an original BCG with a bit of saving up for a lightweight option ( is the g&p a lightweight number as I don't like Angry Gun stuff - had a couple of gash items from them).

Anyway any knowledge would be great, perhaps if we could nail it down to ballpark figures for a stock gun we could add it the downloadable mws thread document that's on here to cut down on repeat questions as this thread is huge.

[AlphaBear]

3 hours ago, jsmithski said:

Today I made a DIY npas using stock floating valve and m3x8mm set screw. Works just like any other npas but I think 8mm is too long and eventually 5mm screw would be enough. I was able to get consistent FPS so I think it makes no sense in spending money on the commercial stuff. This is my second npas (first I made for the vfc mp5 gbb), it’s a simple job anyone can do.

Well that’s quite interesting. Do you have any pics of the components you used and also the final assembly? 

[jsmithski]

17 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

Well that’s quite interesting. Do you have any pics of the components you used and also the final assembly? 

This is what you need to do.

[jsmithski]

Tech tip: if your original handguard wobbles, it is most likely a stripped screw at the bottom of the barrel. Using a few mm longer one will fix it, there’s much more room and the original screw is very short. Since original threading is short you will need use some force to screw in the longer one, but you can do that without a threading tool.

[AlphaBear]

46 minutes ago, jsmithski said:

This is what you need to do.

Ahhhhh I see what you mean now. That’s kinda similar to the Angry Gun MPA nozzle I’m trying it. You can adjust the screw using an Allen key and it has a washer attached to the screw to limit the gas flow. 

[jsmithski]

9 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

Ahhhhh I see what you mean now. That’s kinda similar to the Angry Gun MPA nozzle I’m trying it. You can adjust the screw using an Allen key and it has a washer attached to the screw to limit the gas flow. 

Here there’s no washer, the screw positions the floating valve by pushing it off the nozzle spring retainer.

 

 

 

Question to you all, what’s the trick to make the MWS sound like Inokatsu? If you ever heard how Inokatsu m4 sounds then you know what I’m talking about. Anyone has an idea?

[AlphaBear]

Is this the floating valve which you have modified ?

[jsmithski]

26 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

Is this the floating valve which you have modified ?

Yes, the one on my pic is from the mp5, but that’s the same part just different shape. You insert the screw from the inside so that you can use an Allen key later to turn it just like the angry gun npas.

[OrangeTJ]

On 15/10/2020 at 13:47, Sayrush said:

So I have realised that basically everybody here already has this gun and to be honest, I am my self close on getting one my self. But I have a few concerns that make me a bit unsure of getting it and I hope you fellow already owners can clear my doubts. 

 

Now, I have fallen in love with the gas blowback mechanic, and I heard about how good this m4 from tm was,  the problem is pretty simple, I have never worked with gas outside of using gas at home for cooking to be fair. I have no idea how well this sort of gun is going to be able to perform or even survive in the somewhat cold weather we have here in Nothern Ireland, I do not expect it to compare to AEG, or to be amazing in the field, but I don´t want the gun to die on me either because it is not made to work correctly in this temperatures. Is the temperature something that would end up being a terrible problem? Any sort of help towards this would be incredible appreciated as I am really just looking for any excuse to buy it, but I have a local airsoft store owner scare me away from getting a gbbr on here Belfast, I´ve heard that it also goes down to the rifle being good? Some brands and some rifles are made better therefore being able to still perform decently in cold weathers? 

 

I apologise for asking so many questions, but thanks a lot if anybody does answer them.

Have an amazing day. 

Honestly, since I started playing with gas blowback, I've had precisely zero interest in AEGs.  My first was a GHK G5, then a G&G SMC9, and now the MWS.  The other two are fun and I suspect the GHK would run even coated in mud, but the MWS is a dramatically finer piece of equipment than either of the other two.  The only place where the "performance" lags an AEG in my opinion, is in the ability to just pull the trigger hundreds of times without swapping mags.  All that results in is wasting bbs, really.  The overall feel and experience of playing GBB makes the AEG pale in comparison and the MWS is about as good as it gets in GBBs.  Had I known then what I know now, I would have just gotten the MWS in the first place and save myself quite a lot of money.

 

I don't know about truly cold weather but I've played in temps down to about 45F (not cold, I know) with no issues at all.  Frankly as a Californian I'm spoiled to warmer weather and really wouldn't want to play in freezing temps anyway, as I haven't found a good way to keep my goggles from fogging at those lower temps.

[Bada Bing]

7 hours ago, jsmithski said:

Question to you all, what’s the trick to make the MWS sound like Inokatsu? If you ever heard how Inokatsu m4 sounds then you know what I’m talking about. Anyone has an idea?

Oh yes! When it worked it was such a ferocious beast. Lots of metal on metal. Good clunky AR trigger, bolt dragging over the hammer and it’s metal nozzle coming down on the chamber like a hammer on an anvil. I think that was one of the keys to its roar, the metal nozzle.  
 

The Marui M4 has too many plastic components that act like dampeners and those roller bearings don’t help. 

[Eenthuncob]

Second outing with MWS today and after using red gas (nuprol 3) it was fantastic couldn't get enough.

 

Managed to get 2 full mags out of one gas (12c) which is what I'd expect, just looking for a good red dot now and should be perfect.

 

Oh and a rear sling plate.