THE TM MWS thread

[JUSTICE_RAINS]

If anybody is wondering about what bucking/nub combinations are good for the MWS, I have experience with four so far - the stock bucking, the Modify Tan + SixG brass nub, the Maple Leaf MR Hop (60 or 70 degree) + Maple Leaf Omega Tensioner/Modify flat nub, and the T-N.T. TR Hop bucking for GBB (60 degree) + Modify flat nub.

 

Stock Bucking + nub:

+Accurate to roughly 40 meters, 50 meters on a good non-windy day and if the target's torso is fully exposed

+Doesn't seem to get dirty too quickly, easy to clean

+/-Decently durable, but you're limited to under 120 MPS/400 FPS

-Can lift up to 0.30's only - nub is too weak

-Feels smooth, not as grippy as Maple Leaf buckings

 

Modify Tan + SixG:

+Very accurate out to 60 meters or so on 1.3 J, 0.30 - 0.36 G BB's (capable of lifting heavier BBs, up to 0.40, decent accuracy out to 70 meters - not sure about 0.45 or 0.48)

+Drop in fit, no need to modify nub - the SixG nub is a good pairing with most buckings on the market

+Works very well in cold weather

-Not very durable

-BBs often curve to either side at the end of travel, some lateral deviation observed

-Limited to under 120 MPS/400 FPS, I would not go above 350 FPS in all honesty

 

Maple Leaf MR Hop + Maple Leaf Omega Tensioner:

+INSANE range, approx. 70-80 meters accurately with 0.40g and heavier BBs @approx. 2.0 J and above 

+Very grippy bucking, decently durable, makes a great seal with the nozzle

+Consistent FPS

+Lateral deviation is noticeably less than Modify Tan/SixG combo

-Omega Tensioner needs to be cut at the front and needs to be perfectly aligned or else your gun will shoot way off

-MR Hop bucking gets dirty quickly due to how grippy it is and is a pain to get squeaky clean (you'll need to strip and clean your bucking/barrel after every game day)

-Very strange issue - has no trouble lazing BBs on semi-auto, but BBs will fall out of the barrel on full auto

 

T-N.T. TR Hop 60 degree + Modify Flat Nub OR T-N.T. standard flat nub:

+Not as much range as MR Hop but even better consistency due to shape of patch, insanely accurate (it outranged most AEGs and I was able to score several cross-map kills)

+Almost 0 lateral deviation

+Doesn't get dirty as quickly, very easy to clean

-Need to cut off front of nub in order to fit inside hop chamber

-Needs teflon tape to seal better and prevent rotation of inner barrel inside hop chamber due to the bucking retaining edge being a bit thin - took more work to get this one right than the other combos

 

 

 

In close to medium range testing (placing shots at roughly 30-40 meters onto a large postcard sized target, about 8x10 inches), the Modify tan combination and the T-N.T. bucking are the most accurate, though at under 30 meters the difference is negligible across all the combinations I've tried and the stock bucking is more than adequate for hitting targets at this range. The main issue I faced with the stock nub and bucking was that it could not lift 0.30s very far unless I was shooting over 1.5 J. In addition, after a while of shooting I noticed a lot of horizontal deviation. I could literally see my BBs making sidespins down to their target and it was getting difficult to thread BBs through small openings.

 

However, past 100 feet is where the MR Hop and the T-N.T. buckings really shine. The MR Hop and the TNT buckings are on another level. The consistency of the T-N.T. from 30-60 meters is better than that of the MR Hop. The MR Hop is a little bit more "grippy." The T-N.T. seems to run cleaner. Both can send 0.40-0.45's out to 250 feet easily. The main issue with the Modify Tan bucking is that it's rated only at 50-60 degree and is not as durable as the TNT or Maple Leaf MR hop bucking. It also has more lateral deviation at long range than the MR Hop or the TNT bucking. There are numerous reports of people's Modify Tan buckings ripping from normal use. I don't see that happening anytime soon with my MR Hop bucking or my T-N.T. buckings.

 

Apologies for the long post. This is just my experience and results may vary from setup to setup.

[occidio]

JUSTICE_RAINS   Barrel??

[JUSTICE_RAINS]

@occidio I've tested only three barrels - the stock 6.08mm 250mm brass inner barrel, a 370mm long 6.03mm Laylax/Prometheus steel inner barrel, and a 410mm long 6.04mm Maple Leaf Crazy Jet brass barrel. From my tests it was clear that the barrel has minimal effect, if any, on the accuracy and range of the platform. 95% of the accuracy/range comes from the bucking and nub used, how clean everything is, and getting everything properly aligned. As an example, my first time installing the T-N.T. bucking was a disaster because the bucking patch was slightly canted to the left, causing all my shots to curve way left field. I had the 410mm Maple Leaf Crazy Jet on at the time which made no difference in accuracy. When I went back and properly aligned the patch, I started putting fist sized groupings into a tree at roughly 30 meters out just standing offhand.

 

I have a professionally tuned R-Hopped Lambda 6.05mm steel tightbore inner barrel w/Modify flat bucking and flat nub in my primary AEG which had a +/-1 FPS deviation at the chrono last weekend. My MTR-16 is slightly more accurate with the T-N.T. bucking and nub. That's saying a lot. You can also notice the Joule creep on the GBBR is more significant than on the AEG.

 

The ML Crazy Jet barrels have very small windows, but my TR Hop bucking fit into the window and made a nice concave R-hop style contact surface with the BB. I actually prefer this smaller hop window because there seems to be less room for the hop up bucking patch to be misaligned, while a wider window means slightly more room for error (in theory). The stock barrel window is quite open and allows for a wide variety of bucking/nub setups. The Prometheus barrel is similar to the stock barrel, with a wide open window. 

[marine]

@JUSTICE_RAINS totally agree with you

[Jigorugu]

On 20/08/2020 at 07:25, JUSTICE_RAINS said:

If anybody is wondering about what bucking/nub combinations are good for the MWS, I have experience with four so far - the stock bucking, the Modify Tan + SixG brass nub, the Maple Leaf MR Hop (60 or 70 degree) + Maple Leaf Omega Tensioner/Modify flat nub, and the T-N.T. TR Hop bucking for GBB (60 degree) + Modify flat nub.

 

Stock Bucking + nub:

+Accurate to roughly 40 meters, 50 meters on a good non-windy day and if the target's torso is fully exposed

+Doesn't seem to get dirty too quickly, easy to clean

+/-Decently durable, but you're limited to under 120 MPS/400 FPS

-Can lift up to 0.30's only - nub is too weak

-Feels smooth, not as grippy as Maple Leaf buckings

 

Modify Tan + SixG:

+Very accurate out to 60 meters or so on 1.3 J, 0.30 - 0.36 G BB's (capable of lifting heavier BBs, up to 0.40, decent accuracy out to 70 meters - not sure about 0.45 or 0.48)

+Drop in fit, no need to modify nub - the SixG nub is a good pairing with most buckings on the market

+Works very well in cold weather

-Not very durable

-BBs often curve to either side at the end of travel, some lateral deviation observed

-Limited to under 120 MPS/400 FPS, I would not go above 350 FPS in all honesty

 

Maple Leaf MR Hop + Maple Leaf Omega Tensioner:

+INSANE range, approx. 70-80 meters accurately with 0.40g and heavier BBs @approx. 2.0 J and above 

+Very grippy bucking, decently durable, makes a great seal with the nozzle

+Consistent FPS

+Lateral deviation is noticeably less than Modify Tan/SixG combo

-Omega Tensioner needs to be cut at the front and needs to be perfectly aligned or else your gun will shoot way off

-MR Hop bucking gets dirty quickly due to how grippy it is and is a pain to get squeaky clean (you'll need to strip and clean your bucking/barrel after every game day)

-Very strange issue - has no trouble lazing BBs on semi-auto, but BBs will fall out of the barrel on full auto

 

T-N.T. TR Hop 60 degree + Modify Flat Nub OR T-N.T. standard flat nub:

+Not as much range as MR Hop but even better consistency due to shape of patch, insanely accurate (it outranged most AEGs and I was able to score several cross-map kills)

+Almost 0 lateral deviation

+Doesn't get dirty as quickly, very easy to clean

-Need to cut off front of nub in order to fit inside hop chamber

-Needs teflon tape to seal better and prevent rotation of inner barrel inside hop chamber due to the bucking retaining edge being a bit thin - took more work to get this one right than the other combos

 

 

 

In close to medium range testing (placing shots at roughly 30-40 meters onto a large postcard sized target, about 8x10 inches), the Modify tan combination and the T-N.T. bucking are the most accurate, though at under 30 meters the difference is negligible across all the combinations I've tried and the stock bucking is more than adequate for hitting targets at this range. The main issue I faced with the stock nub and bucking was that it could not lift 0.30s very far unless I was shooting over 1.5 J. In addition, after a while of shooting I noticed a lot of horizontal deviation. I could literally see my BBs making sidespins down to their target and it was getting difficult to thread BBs through small openings.

 

However, past 100 feet is where the MR Hop and the T-N.T. buckings really shine. The MR Hop and the TNT buckings are on another level. The consistency of the T-N.T. from 30-60 meters is better than that of the MR Hop. The MR Hop is a little bit more "grippy." The T-N.T. seems to run cleaner. Both can send 0.40-0.45's out to 250 feet easily. The main issue with the Modify Tan bucking is that it's rated only at 50-60 degree and is not as durable as the TNT or Maple Leaf MR hop bucking. It also has more lateral deviation at long range than the MR Hop or the TNT bucking. There are numerous reports of people's Modify Tan buckings ripping from normal use. I don't see that happening anytime soon with my MR Hop bucking or my T-N.T. buckings.

 

Apologies for the long post. This is just my experience and results may vary from setup to setup.

Very very interesting, do you have a YouTube chanell to explained this on video,  i don't have experience  on cutting nubs!?

[RMDavis]

Another great day yesterday out with my MWS URGI at Gloucester prison. 

 

Two mag related issues however...

 

Firstly a mag developed a fault where the bb follower/spring became caught internally and wouldn't allow the bb's to sit against the feed lips under pressure.

 

It's the second time this has happened to me, unsure whether it's the same mag but will insure to number them discreetly to monitor. Fairly easy to fix but I wasn't sure whether anyone else has had this issue?

 

Second fault was just me being an absolute donkey! 

 

On the way back into the safe zone, unloading the mag it slipped out of my hand and promptly hit concrete feed lips first shattering themselves completely and sending bb's everywhere!

 

A quick order via impulse 101 and I have a few spares on their way to get that mag operational!

[marine]

9 hours ago, RMDavis said:

Another great day yesterday out with my MWS URGI at Gloucester prison. 

 

Two mag related issues however...

 

Firstly a mag developed a fault where the bb follower/spring became caught internally and wouldn't allow the bb's to sit against the feed lips under pressure.

 

It's the second time this has happened to me, unsure whether it's the same mag but will insure to number them discreetly to monitor. Fairly easy to fix but I wasn't sure whether anyone else has had this issue?

 

Second fault was just me being an absolute donkey! 

 

On the way back into the safe zone, unloading the mag it slipped out of my hand and promptly hit concrete feed lips first shattering themselves completely and sending bb's everywhere!

 

A quick order via impulse 101 and I have a few spares on their way to get that mag operational!

 

Clean inner guide mag and probably solve your feed problem.

[n00b1982]

Hi all, so I'm new to the platform and had a couple of questions. Primarily about niggly fixes I'm looking for.

 

1. The wobble on the standard stock - can this be reduced?

 

2. I have installed a Surefire M500 LT on the front end, however it suffers from rotation. Is there a way to fix this?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Cyberlawyer]

I can’t help on the torch as I have never used one, but the stock wobble can be addressed quite easily and cheaply. All I did was attach a strip of the fuzzy side of the Velcro to the top of the buffer tube. It just takes up the space eliminating the wobble, but allowing the stock to move freely.
 

You can tune how stiff you want it by how wide you make the strip. Start at somewhere about 1 cm wide and try it. If it’s too stiff make the strip narrower if it’s too loose make it a bit wider. After a bit of trial and error you will find the sweet spot for you. You only need the strip to go from the last adjustment point to the end of the buffer tube so it shouldn’t ever be visible even with the stock fully extended.

[n00b1982]

1 hour ago, Cyberlawyer said:

I can’t help on the torch as I have never used one, but the stock wobble can be addressed quite easily and cheaply. All I did was attach a strip of the fuzzy side of the Velcro to the top of the buffer tube. It just takes up the space eliminating the wobble, but allowing the stock to move freely.
 

You can tune how stiff you want it by how wide you make the strip. Start at somewhere about 1 cm wide and try it. If it’s too stiff make the strip narrower if it’s too loose make it a bit wider. After a bit of trial and error you will find the sweet spot for you. You only need the strip to go from the last adjustment point to the end of the buffer tube so it shouldn’t ever be visible even with the stock fully extended.

Brilliant, thank you.

 

I'm thinking the torch for grip might be a milspec issue, no idea if the delta ring is correct. All I know is when I did something similar years ago there was zero movement - though that was on a PTW.......

[Wo1f]

@RMDavis my mags do that very rarely. In the field I usually just find a thin but sturdy stick and push down on the second BB to free it because I’m an animal (or an Allen key if I’m feeling posh) 

 

cleaning it out with isopropyl and a cotton bud when I get home usually fixes it for months

[Smiller]

On 20/08/2020 at 06:25, JUSTICE_RAINS said:

If anybody is wondering about what bucking/nub combinations are good for the MWS, I have experience with four so far - the stock bucking, the Modify Tan + SixG brass nub, the Maple Leaf MR Hop (60 or 70 degree) + Maple Leaf Omega Tensioner/Modify flat nub, and the T-N.T. TR Hop bucking for GBB (60 degree) + Modify flat nub.

 

Stock Bucking + nub:

+Accurate to roughly 40 meters, 50 meters on a good non-windy day and if the target's torso is fully exposed

+Doesn't seem to get dirty too quickly, easy to clean

+/-Decently durable, but you're limited to under 120 MPS/400 FPS

-Can lift up to 0.30's only - nub is too weak

-Feels smooth, not as grippy as Maple Leaf buckings

 

Modify Tan + SixG:

+Very accurate out to 60 meters or so on 1.3 J, 0.30 - 0.36 G BB's (capable of lifting heavier BBs, up to 0.40, decent accuracy out to 70 meters - not sure about 0.45 or 0.48)

+Drop in fit, no need to modify nub - the SixG nub is a good pairing with most buckings on the market

+Works very well in cold weather

-Not very durable

-BBs often curve to either side at the end of travel, some lateral deviation observed

-Limited to under 120 MPS/400 FPS, I would not go above 350 FPS in all honesty

 

Maple Leaf MR Hop + Maple Leaf Omega Tensioner:

+INSANE range, approx. 70-80 meters accurately with 0.40g and heavier BBs @approx. 2.0 J and above 

+Very grippy bucking, decently durable, makes a great seal with the nozzle

+Consistent FPS

+Lateral deviation is noticeably less than Modify Tan/SixG combo

-Omega Tensioner needs to be cut at the front and needs to be perfectly aligned or else your gun will shoot way off

-MR Hop bucking gets dirty quickly due to how grippy it is and is a pain to get squeaky clean (you'll need to strip and clean your bucking/barrel after every game day)

-Very strange issue - has no trouble lazing BBs on semi-auto, but BBs will fall out of the barrel on full auto

 

T-N.T. TR Hop 60 degree + Modify Flat Nub OR T-N.T. standard flat nub:

+Not as much range as MR Hop but even better consistency due to shape of patch, insanely accurate (it outranged most AEGs and I was able to score several cross-map kills)

+Almost 0 lateral deviation

+Doesn't get dirty as quickly, very easy to clean

-Need to cut off front of nub in order to fit inside hop chamber

-Needs teflon tape to seal better and prevent rotation of inner barrel inside hop chamber due to the bucking retaining edge being a bit thin - took more work to get this one right than the other combos

 

 

 

In close to medium range testing (placing shots at roughly 30-40 meters onto a large postcard sized target, about 8x10 inches), the Modify tan combination and the T-N.T. bucking are the most accurate, though at under 30 meters the difference is negligible across all the combinations I've tried and the stock bucking is more than adequate for hitting targets at this range. The main issue I faced with the stock nub and bucking was that it could not lift 0.30s very far unless I was shooting over 1.5 J. In addition, after a while of shooting I noticed a lot of horizontal deviation. I could literally see my BBs making sidespins down to their target and it was getting difficult to thread BBs through small openings.

 

However, past 100 feet is where the MR Hop and the T-N.T. buckings really shine. The MR Hop and the TNT buckings are on another level. The consistency of the T-N.T. from 30-60 meters is better than that of the MR Hop. The MR Hop is a little bit more "grippy." The T-N.T. seems to run cleaner. Both can send 0.40-0.45's out to 250 feet easily. The main issue with the Modify Tan bucking is that it's rated only at 50-60 degree and is not as durable as the TNT or Maple Leaf MR hop bucking. It also has more lateral deviation at long range than the MR Hop or the TNT bucking. There are numerous reports of people's Modify Tan buckings ripping from normal use. I don't see that happening anytime soon with my MR Hop bucking or my T-N.T. buckings.

 

Apologies for the long post. This is just my experience and results may vary from setup to setup.

Did you test the tnt with the brass nub (sixg)? What about best for running at 1 joule /350fps? Really interested in the results. You’re write up is fab by the way and really interesting. Giving me another combo to trial as the tan bucking just fails far too quickly.

[AngryDad223]

I had some issues with my fairly new (sub 2 months old) MWS, that was the hop was shocking and the rifle was so inaccurate. Took it apart and the stock rubber was very deformed as was the stock nub. Replaced with ML Autobot & omega nub..... the difference is unreal! Accuracy is spot on and the range is amazing 

 

[n00b1982]

On 25/08/2020 at 13:20, Cyberlawyer said:

I can’t help on the torch as I have never used one, but the stock wobble can be addressed quite easily and cheaply. All I did was attach a strip of the fuzzy side of the Velcro to the top of the buffer tube. It just takes up the space eliminating the wobble, but allowing the stock to move freely.
 

You can tune how stiff you want it by how wide you make the strip. Start at somewhere about 1 cm wide and try it. If it’s too stiff make the strip narrower if it’s too loose make it a bit wider. After a bit of trial and error you will find the sweet spot for you. You only need the strip to go from the last adjustment point to the end of the buffer tube so it shouldn’t ever be visible even with the stock fully extended.

Hey buddy,

 

Just as an update I applied your fix and it works perfectly - thank you!

[Cyberlawyer]

Glad it helped. It isn’t an original idea I got it from somewhere, but I can’t think where. Might even be somewhere earlier in the 130 odd pages of this thread....

[JUSTICE_RAINS]

On 24/08/2020 at 06:44, Jigorugu said:

Very very interesting, do you have a YouTube chanell to explained this on video,  i don't have experience  on cutting nubs!?

 

I may do a comparison test in the future but I don't have anything except gameplay with the MTR-16: https://www.youtube.com/user/ucanhascheeseburger/videos?view_as=subscriber

 

The vast majority of my shots are close range (under 30 meters) but even for longer range shots across the field, I am easily hitting people from 50-60m away no problem.

 

Cutting nubs is very easy, you just take a sharp blade such as an X-ACTO knife for cutting cardboard boxes and cut straight downward on the front of the nub, being careful not to cut at an angle or make a messy cut. If you don't do this mod, your bucking won't be able to apply pressure evenly across the patch because the barrel gets in the way.

 

  

On 27/08/2020 at 06:57, Smiller said:

Did you test the tnt with the brass nub (sixg)? What about best for running at 1 joule /350fps? Really interested in the results. You’re write up is fab by the way and really interesting. Giving me another combo to trial as the tan bucking just fails far too quickly.

 

I haven't tried the TNT bucking with the brass nub, but I would imagine the brass nub would perform very well just about any flat or R Hop shaped bucking. Due to the concave shape of the nub, it will give the bucking contact patch more of a curved Maple Leaf-esque shape while a flat nub will apply a... well... flat contact shape over the BB. And due to the limited space where the nub can fit through in the hop up chamber, a slightly bigger nub won't make an insane amount of difference.

 

I've noticed that the most important factors are: 1) the nub must be very stiff and stable 2) the hop arm should be stable and not moving from side to side 3) the hop chamber should also be centered in the outer barrel, and 4) the contact patch must come down perfectly evenly over the barrel window after everything is assembled. #1 can mean anything from the brass SixG nub to the TNT flat nub (due to the length of the TNT nub it will require slightly more modification than others) to the Maple Leaf Omega Tensioner concave nub or even a Modify flat nub. #2 and #3 can be helped with a CNC hop chamber/arm combination lke the Laylax MWS hop chamber, or a small roll of teflon tape. #4 comes with a lot of patience and time.  

 

If you find that the Modify tan bucking wears down too often for your liking (it is an old design after all), I would highly recommend the Maple Leaf MR Hop 60 degree (if you're not using a lot of full auto) or the TNT TR Hop 50 or 60 degree, paired with a solid nub of your choice (assuming 350 FPS w/0.2g BBs). There will be a slight break in period of 300-500 rounds, but your bucking will last many thousands of shots easily.

[Hypokondrikern]

Thanks for the detailed research @JUSTICE_RAINS

 

I was somehow most surprised by the minimal difference in range from a longer barrel. I was somehow convinced that my 370 barrel was the source for the added “umpf”, power and range I have experienced with the MWS. Note. my MWS is second hand and came only with 370 mm barrel so I have no idea of the feeling nor performance of the standard barrel length. But I’m now enticed by the idea of making a shorter build as it will be easier to transport, maneuver and weight less + won’t have the negative effect on range as I initially had perceived.
 

I’d just like to hear from some others whether or not this is the right route? Do others have the same experience that a longer barrel only translates into added FPS rather than added power which lifts BBs further? 

[Davegolf]

Extra barrel length only adds power, not accuracy.

[Hypokondrikern]

2 hours ago, Davegolf said:

Extra barrel length only adds power, not accuracy.

I’m not talking about accuracy but rather added range and speed of BB. 

[Crazy_Crystal]

3 hours ago, Hypokondrikern said:

I’d just like to hear from some others whether or not this is the right route? Do others have the same experience that a longer barrel only translates into added FPS rather than added power which lifts BBs further? 

 

so the two terms you've used are both colloquial terms for muzzle velocity or muzzle energy. and as @Davegolf has said a longer barrel increases this, but this is only half of what makes a difference particularly in gas guns.

 

as far as increasing range goes though, that is significantly down to the hop unit/rubber itself and it's ability to consistently put enough hop on the BB in a controlled way, and that is what makes the mws a pretty special GBBR. there isn't another magical force that gives it extra range though.

[Davegolf]

To clarify a longer barrel length increases FPS;

Which also means energy - which means you can use heavier ammo more effectively - which reduces deviation from wind and fauna - which means ACCURACY is increased

Which also means speed - which means the BB takes longer to slow down - which means backspin and lift are maintained longer - which means RANGE is increased

 

 

 

[Hypokondrikern]

Thanks for taking the time explaining the somewhat complex correlation between hop and barrel length @Crazy_Crystal and @Davegolf - I’ll see if I can source an OG barrel to see the difference for myself 

[Crazy_Crystal]

tbh the standard 250mm TM inner barrel is just as good as if not better than most of the aftermarket alternatives so it will always be a solid option.

[JSwan]

My MWS which I’ve had for a month or so now, skirmished with it once and what a fantastic gun! It’s got a Six G nub now after reading this thread and a modify tan bucking on the way

[Wild Weasel]

Has anybody encountered the screws on the top of the BCG coming loose and catching the top of the lower receiver before?