THE TM MWS thread

[Prisce]

9 minutes ago, rocketdogbert said:

 

Really, really should not drunk post 🙈

You really should, made me chuckle.

[ThatNordicGuy]

Hello,

 

So i re-read all the pages, and I must have been drunk and skipped every other pages last time, and have found most of what I was asking about. Sorry for being that guy.

 

I have tried to answer my own questions to the best of my (your) knowledge after haveing re-read everything. My own (possibly right/wrong) answers in blue.

 

My name is Bernt and I am from Norway. So, I am a newcomer to airsoft and have decided to take the step so to speak and buy a TM MWS rifle. Now, I do like the look of the MTR16, so I am leaning towards that model. I have no experience in GBBR’s, but have dabbled with cheap AEG’s. 

 

But I have a few (stupid?) questions I hope this community can help me answer:

 

• The TM MWS models can all use the same internal parts? The M4 MWS and MTR16 at least.
• Stock/vanilla model will fire a about 300fps with 134a gas, and 360ish with green gas (mod)? Ish
• How easy is it to “tune” the fps into a wanted fps? (AEG will use different springs to obtain different fps. Other than different gas types (chart?), what can be done to tune a TM MWS in the same manner? Is there a way to measure Joule?) Trial and error, chrono, npas valve?

   Specifically; this year I’ll be joining two “big” events this year, both with different rules in regards output velocity.

                Inferno Games: 118 m/s or 390FPS with 0.25g BB (semi/auto) or 112 m/s or 370FPS with 0.25g BB 

                BBR: 98 m/s or 322FPS with 0.25g BB (semi/auto) 

   Otherwise I will be playing at my local club, that follows national airsoft rules (for Norway)

                Club games: 137m/s or 450FPS with .020g BB (semi/auto)

               How do I tune my MTR16/MWS to fall into these to different regulations?

 

• What are the upgrade parts I should buy? (What spare parts should I buy?) I see references to a magical brass nob for the hop unit?
• For the MTR16, I was thinking about changing the inner barrel to a longer one. Is there a chart showing the new fps (because (and, I might be stupid) a longer inner barrel will increase the fps, range and accuracy?) I saw someone say it was difficult to change the inner barrel on the MTR16?

 

 

(Further down the road, I would like to build a DMR MTR16, but that will probably have to be a new post some other day.)

 

As for sidearm, I have been looking at TM’s Hi-Capa versions and Glock’s. Are there any tips on spareparts/spareparts etc?

 

I will be ordering from abroad and would like to order “everything needed” in one order.  

 

So I have understood the following can be bought with good intentions; a thight bore inner barrel (will increas fps, and range), the brass nub (if I want to throw heavier bb's), NPAS / G&P Enhanced Valve to "tune" the fps, and tan bucking. Add some nozzel return spring just in case.

 

Thank you for your time and help,

 

Regards Bernt.

Edited February 19, 2019 by ThatNordicGuy
Found a lot of what I was asking about.

[Davegolf]

Hi Bernt! Welcome to MWS ownership!!

• All MWS have nigh on identical internal workings
• Stock circa 300 FPS on 134a / upto 330 on Green
• SixG Super Nub is great drop in range and accuracy upgrade
• Longer barrel will increase FPS, but not increase accuracy
• Floating valve alterations are needed to reliably and efficiently increase FPS
• Dont get too hung up on FPS, these MWS guns punch well above their weight!
• I dont see the need for more than 400 FPS on 0.2g, once you go higher youre increasing wear and efficency / consistency will suffer

As for GBB pistols, if you want performance to match the MWS then it has to be Hi Capa

[marine]

Hey guys , actually have mws and it´s fantastic airsoft gun !

 

I dude for best config to bucking + nub + barrel.

 

Actually 300FPS and I want to use 0.28gr or 0.30gr.

 

Now I tested Maple leaf autobot 60º with Nub laylax Omega design and barrel stock . Aprox 55 meters with 0.28.

 

Any better config ??? 

 

Thanks !

[Wo1f]

Increase the B.B. weight and you should see more range 

[marine]

Hey Wo1f thanks for u request.

 

I did another test an hour ago . 18ºC with Zasdar Green gas.

 

330FPS with 0.20bbs 1J

289FPS with 0.28bbs 1.08J

288FPS with 0.30bbs  1.15J

 

The limit in my country is 350FPS /1.14J.

 

I have to test what distance  I get with 0.30bbs  but.... You think that maple leaf autobot with laylax omega nub is good performance ? . I´ve seen a lot in this fourm about MODIFY TAN rubber and SiXGbrass nub.

[Davegolf]

The Autobot bucking has a concave shape to it and an elongated contact patch;

 

The former helps centre the BB for consistency, the latter helps apply more backspin and give more range.

 

I have found them to be inconsistent and are easily damaged.

 

I think the diamond contact patch hurts accuracy as the BB will tend to run slightly off centre / take an inconsistent path and exit.

 

Then also the Omega Nub is a good product, the concave design is desirable, but it is soft and malleable giving another variable.

 

In the case of your setup @marine you have a concave nub on a concave bucking, not ideal.

 

The SixG Super Nub is very hard being brass, this gives consistent hop application and concave shape to a conventional bucking (TM / Modify)

 

A conventional bucking has a much more uniform contact patch across the width of the barrel, so the BB is centred better (due to the concave nub) and it exits the contact patch more consistently because the contact patch is essentially a straight line across the barrels width.

 

All of these points are also true of an Rhop contact patch, the only difference being the length of the contact patch is vastly longer than a conventional bucking.

 

All of these points are why Rhop is so effective and consistent.

 

What I'm saying is, I think you'll get much better results with a SixG Nub and bucking

[marine]

Thanks for the feedback @Davegolf

In AEG I have Rhop installed and they are the best configuration results I've had.

Are you comparing the Rhop system with the six nub and modify it?

I think that they are different systems... the contact of the rubber will be concave but the point of friction is much smaller than with an Rhop, with the current configuration I try to simulate a rhop in some way.

[Immortal]

5 minutes ago, marine said:

Thanks for the feedback @Davegolf

In AEG I have Rhop installed and they are the best configuration results I've had.

Are you comparing the Rhop system with the six nub and modify it?

I think that they are different systems... the contact of the rubber will be concave but the point of friction is much smaller than with an Rhop, with the current configuration I try to simulate a rhop in some way.

 

For some reason this font isn't showing all your post for me?

 

EDIT: Actually it is but I had to use the slider to see the rest, ignore me please

[Cipher-032]

@marine You can modify VSR buckings and run a R hop on a bridged VSR barrel. Failing that theres always the TNT TR hop buckings which simulate exactly that. Its what I run and does well enough for me currently. Other than that there are the Maple leaf buckings. But their QC is rather hit and miss currently.


Bonus action shot from the weekend. Believe it or not but both my P mags work superb!
 

[Jimmeh]

14 minutes ago, Cipher-032 said:

@marine You can modify VSR buckings and run a R hop on a bridged VSR barrel. Failing that theres always the TNT TR hop buckings which simulate exactly that. Its what I run and does well enough for me currently. Other than that there are the Maple leaf buckings. But their QC is rather hit and miss currently.


Bonus action shot from the weekend. Believe it or not but both my P mags work superb!

 

I am having no luck with buckings currently. 

 

Put a Modify Tan in and the mound ripped. Put in a Prommy Purple and I get the stickiest nozzle ever. Maple Leaf Decepticon 50degree and the nozzle shreds the outside and results aren’t great.

 

Thinking of trying a TNT TR hop next. What degrees do you recommend? 

 

Edit: also will this work well with the brass nub or is there a better one to use? And I take it it’s the VSR version? 

[Wo1f]

The brass nub works well with most buckings (especially the standard and modify tan) but to get the most out of something like the TR bucking you’re gonna get better results with a long nub because the bucking patch is massive. The problem with that is the hop window doesn’t allow for long nubs like the Prometheus bridged without cutting it down and it’s squishy. 

 

All this is pointless though if you’re limited to B.B. weight and joules. The reason you’d change your bucking/nub is if you can’t hop those heavy BB’s. To get more range you use a heavier B.B. and then apply more hop to extend a straight flight.

 

The best setup for a .28 is the SixG brass nub and a standard or modify tan bucking. The brass has no give and puts a touch more pressure on the outside edges of the mound which I found tightens horizontal deviation without BB’s ‘hooking’ that can sometimes occur with concave nubs that aren’t centred perfectly

[marine]

Ooook thanks guys ^^

[Shizbazki]

Hi guys after a bit of advice.

 

TLDR: Recommend me a RAS/RIS rail, about 9" long in Keymod or M-Lok, Picatinny only on upper rail

Do i need a new barrel nut?

Do i need something like the PTS spacer nut? such as this https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/pts-adapter-ring-for-marui-m4-mws-gbb or even this: https://shop.jkarmy.com/parts/mws-zet-system/c-c-outer-barrel-nut-spacer-stainless-steel-for-marui-m4-ar-mws-gbb.html

Also what is the TM profile? seeing M31.8 / P1.5 is that the threading?

 

After buying a TM MWS second hand (maybe even third who knows) I have a few questions about it.

 

As you can see it came with an already attached 3rd party manufacturer RIS/RAS rail, I have managed to identify it as a Dytac 7" SLR Rail. Whilst it is nice rail, it is only 7" long, that means that the previous owner/s have used a shorter outer barrel but kept the inner barrel the same meaning that the LANTAC flash hider has most of the inner barrel showing as you can see in the imaged below. I have purchased a 2" barrel extender to make up for this but now this means that too much barrel will be protruding out of the RIS/RAS rail.

 

 

Also annoyingly this Rail does not fit it properly and in order to keep the RIS/RAS rail centred, previous owners have used bits of card as shims to hold it in place.

 

Looking online it appears that i have to use an aftermarket barrel spacer in order to use aftermarket RAS/RIS rails, is this the case? There is already a barrel nut that seem to fit fine for the length of the rail.

 

Also yeah i noticed the previous owner/s have omitted the gas return rod but for airsoft it has no purpose and it don't bother me too much.

 

I have the original Outer Barrel, handguards etc.

 

So from where i am, can i just get any RAS/RIS rail and fit to my gun.

On that note can anyone recommend me a RAS/RIS rail, ideally a 9" long one that is either Keymod or M-Lok (no picatinny except for the top monolithic rail).

[Wo1f]

that looks like it could be a shorter Dytac outer barrel, which has a larger lip that doesn't need an adapter ring. Otherwise you'd find there would be an adapter probably wedged inside of the barrel nut. BY the looks of it, if you keep the outer barrel, any aftermarket rail should bolt straight on. The gas tube will be missing because the gas tube on that barrel looks much closer to the receiver than the normal m4a1 setup.

 

I've no specific rail recommendations, but any AEG rail should bolt straight on. Dytac stuff is nice if you're fitting them once and leaving it. I found their aluminium to be really soft and warp slightly when taking on and off repeatedly. Madbull has the most variety, althought Angry gun have just came out with their mk16 rail. I'm sure they do a 9" version

 

[ThatNordicGuy]

The waiting game begins. TM MTR16 and TM Hi-Capa 5.1 Gold Match on it's was. Wifey will bloody kill me if she finds out. 💸💸💸

#magz #spareparts #ratechnpas #sixgsupernub #buckings 

 

Now, to find an inner barrel. 

 

#hoardersgonnahoard

[Cipher-032]

What barrel are you planning on running? 

I run crazy jets in both the MWS and my HK45, but over time they just dont seem to be all that accurate to me.

[Davegolf]

IME i really don't rate CJ barrels

 

If your not looking for silly FPS the best accuracy is 300mm 6.03 / 6.05 by Prommy or PDI

[Cipher-032]

I run a R hop prommy in my G&G M4, and that was silly accurate with great range. Might head back down that route I think.

I personally think the Crazy jets are just a gimmick of a barrel. Specially when running the HK45 its not very consistent at all

[PewPewLoki]

On the subject of barrels, is anyone aware of any that use a larger hop window? I'm planning on r-hopping and wanna get the most out of the system.

[Davegolf]

An Rhop'd Prommy is VERY hard to beat, TBH just a Prommy and good bucking is always a legit upgrade 

 

I find 6.01s are great in pistols if you keep it clean.

[Wo1f]

Team MWS ready for tomorrow. The DMR being VERY special.. but more on that tomorrow night. 385fps on a .20, so there’s more to be squeezed out of it in terms of power.

[Immortal]

Nice Wo1f, that DMR looks very cool. 👍

[ThatNordicGuy]

On 22/02/2019 at 23:15, Cipher-032 said:

What barrel are you planning on running? 

I run crazy jets in both the MWS and my HK45, but over time they just dont seem to be all that accurate to me.

 

TBH I have no idea, I want accuracy (and range ofc). 

On 22/02/2019 at 23:38, Davegolf said:

An Rhop'd Prommy is VERY hard to beat, TBH just a Prommy and good bucking is always a legit upgrade 

 

I find 6.01s are great in pistols if you keep it clean.

 

So, for a noob, "Rhop", what does that mean?  It's adding spin to the BB's right, with like a SixG Nub? I have ordered one, and it's on it's way. But, it's mostly usfull with heavier BB's? From 0.3 and up? Or will it improve spin on lighter BB's as well?

 

The dim of the barrel, 6.05 vs 6.03 vs 6.01, the smaler the dim, the more preassure, right? What is the negative with 6.01 vs 6.05? 

 

For now, I'll get used to the MTR16 and do the green gas mod, and fit the Ra-Tec NPAS. Then a new barrel. The pistol I'm gonna leave vanilla.

 

 

[Davegolf]

Google Rhop it's well documented.

 

Essentially an extended concave contact patch.

Applies a lot of hop with very low pressure,  centres the BB extremely well.

 

The SixG Nub will hop most weights of BB, but again it is very good at centering the BB.

 

Heavy BB weight is desirable in gas guns due to joule creep, which allows extended flat flight, which is also less affected by wind etc.

 

Yes smaller the barrel higher the pressure, however it is best to have the BB float on a 360 degree cushion of air, without going into it deeply, 6.03 best compromise power (distance) and accuracy in MWS, 6.05 best accuracy.

 

Id only use 6.01 in a pistol, and it needs to be kept cleaner than usual.