Conversation overheard today at Holmbush Airsoft; Crawley

[Snakeeyes75]

Have had a chat with the site owner about this incident even though I didn't play today and he has taken it very seriously.

Do they use their own ammo at the weight the player states they are using or do they take that persons word for it and use calculations based on the info given by the player? I get the sentiment with going by the weight stated but unless they use site own BBs then this is just as open for abuse as the OP situation. Joule creep is a thing but surely it is far far easier to just insist on chronoing with the sites own BBs?

 

Nope, you're correct in that they are currently using the players BB's rather than the sites however I reckon given time this might also change. They've made it very clear that anything that breaches this will mean a lifetime ban!

 

Problem is people like me that use .3/.43 &.45's. However if they kept a bag of .25 & .28's (maybe) that'd sort out about 80% of the players

[Guest PT247]

Edit DELETED

[two_zero]

Was the player cheater banned?

[Esoterick]

Sites need to stop treating chronoing using 0.2g BBs as a magical fix for people using hot guns. My preference would be they chrono using their ammo and they yours.

 

http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/43-longrange-aegs/15603-how-get-maximum-joule-creep-aeg.html

 

Granted this is using a specific setup but you can essentially make guns hot that won't chrono as such on 0.2g BBs

[Shizbazki]

the subject of hot guns, i thought i would add in the curve ball of joule creep.

 

I always use ASG Blaster .20g BBs when chrono'ing both at home using an XcoreTech X3200, my normal site Dragons Lair uses their own (variety of) mags loaded with .20g BBs in order to prevent cheaters.

 

So with that said when i take my G&G TR4-18 (HK 416) it chronos in at around a consistent 345FPS on .20gbbs from their mags, i normally use .25g BBs in game though.

 

So i take it one day to another airsoft site and as i had to use my own mags for chrono loaded with .25g BBs, when i chrono'd it was coming in hot at 320FPS (.20g equivalent of 360FPS) sufficed to say i could not use such a hot gun that day, so i was stuck using .20g BBs for that day as that gun was under the joule limit on that ammo weight but over on another ammo weigh, the site marshals were ok with this.

 

I have since turned it down by snipping a coil or two off the spring but it shocked me as it meant that all that time my gun was hot. :s

[ImTriggerHappy]

the subject of hot guns, i thought i would add in the curve ball of joule creep.

 

I always use ASG Blaster .20g BBs when chrono'ing both at home using an XcoreTech X3200, my normal site Dragons Lair uses their own (variety of) mags loaded with .20g BBs in order to prevent cheaters.

 

So with that said when i take my G&G TR4-18 (HK 416) it chronos in at around a consistent 345FPS on .20gbbs from their mags, i normally use .25g BBs in game though.

 

So i take it one day to another airsoft site and as i had to use my own mags for chrono loaded with .25g BBs, when i chrono'd it was coming in hot at 320FPS (.20g equivalent of 360FPS) sufficed to say i could not use such a hot gun that day, so i was stuck using .20g BBs for that day as that gun was under the joule limit on that ammo weight but over on another ammo weigh, the site marshals were ok with this.

 

I have since turned it down by snipping a coil or two off the spring but it shocked me as it meant that all that time my gun was hot. :s

Might not be joule creep just a crap chrono.

[Shizbazki]

Might not be joule creep just a crap chrono.

 

nah

 

I confirmed it when i got home the first thing i did was load up some .25g BBs, and fired a few shots into my X3200, that reported that i was shooting the equivilant .20g BB of 360FPS, too hot.

 

I have turned it down now so it fires at around 308FPS on .25g BBs

[Sitting Duck]

to be honest - this varying fps readings of guns going a bit over or under that was bang on perviously....

 

uhm warmer weather "may" play a part in this matter as well as variations in true ammo weight

if you are really sad - weigh ya bb's with a drug dealer scale in .01 increments....

 

trust me the odd bb or two do vary in weights - a 0.20 can come in @ .22 etc......

 

the warmer weather might also chuck stuff in mix with buckings working a little more effective etc.....

 

chill - a smidge over eg: 5fps can be hopped - I don't mind that 5fps

but over this I call hot and should not be used until properly brought within tolerance

and yes 349.9999fps is so called perfection but means very little if shooting $hit as we all know

play nice and fair guys x x x

[jcheeseright]

Depends entirely on the chrono rules there shiz, if the site limit is specified as Xfps measured with a .20g BB and you're within that limit then as far as I'm concerned you're not breaking their rules.

 

If they specified 1.13j then you'd have been over... Suppose it's all down to the wording of their rules.

 

I'm a massively in favour of joule limits rather than FPS limits, there's no scope for bullshit then.

[Dentonboy]

I've had the same AEG (G&P M16/M203) chrono at three sites as 351fps average at Ace Combat (too hot, red tagged), 345fps average at The Defilade and 349fps average at Dog Tag, with two different types of 0.2g ammo.

 

Nuprol at Ace and Defilade, Blasters at Dog Tag.

 

Myself and my brother think the variation between chrono brands is a big factor.

[jcheeseright]

Airsoft chronos aren't calibrated very often at all, some sites NEVER calibrate.

 

If anything I'd say that all your results coming in within 10fps is weird, I've seen up to 40fps difference between 2 different sites chronos.

[djben9]

Swap what before the game?

damn phone, half message went!

forgot what i was going on about now but whats to say the dishonest softer like the ones mentioned above dont pass chrono with one gun and swap for a hot one or change ammo/parts etc before actual play thinking it will help them?

 

Do many sites have a walk into game via Chrono point?, its a game of honesty and when ive played people are but sounds like the ones posted about dont have any?

 

sorry still new with less than 10 games under my belt so still learning and observing everyday

 

post above (as multiquote failed )

 

Mine have been chrono'd anywhere from 195 to 352 as chrono was old, eventually settling up with last few being around 320-332ish, also take them to FFZ when im going for a shopping trip, seem to be around 320 there each time as well and 328 at last game, guns are still new though

[Sacarathe]

Its possible(?) you heard players talking about experimentation, if there's no queue, I ask to crono my guns on my game weight, for my own interests.

Depends entirely on the chrono rules there shiz, if the site limit is specified as Xfps measured with a .20g BB and you're within that limit then as far as I'm concerned you're not breaking their rules.

If they specified 1.13j then you'd have been over... Suppose it's all down to the wording of their rules.

I'm a massively in favour of joule limits rather than FPS limits, there's no scope for bullshit then.

 

Agree completely, if a site's rules make no mention of joules, then you only have to pass their test. Just look at the VW emission scandal.

[GunmanAirsoft]

It's a shame to hear about things like this happening, we tend to find that the players who cheat chronos or swap springs/adjust HPA after chrono soon become very obvious in the field because they are usually the same players who wear Teflon or use those magic respawn bushes...

 

The whole basis of airsoft is honour and honesty, sadly there are plenty of people lacking in both

[Sacarathe]

My local site allowed me to play several times with a gun which was hot 1/10th of the time at chrono - but they specifically told me to be careful, and it wasn't like the results were wildly inconsistent, I think it was 1/10th 351 @0.2, and 9/10ths 348-350. But this was before I had played with the hop or put heavier ammo in - because heavier ammo needs more hop, which does affect 0.2g chrono. They chrono'd with site magazines.

 

I saw the same site block plenty of guns which were consistently over 350 and plenty which were over 1/2th of shots. All that aside, I used a sidearm whenever I got close to people anyway and he gun has since lost that occasional hotness.

 

As that site allowed DMRs 450 and bolts at 500, I rolled with it, but I think I would have a lower opinion of a site operator that did this where 350 was their all gun absolute maximum.

[BrightCandle]

Chronoing with 0.20g BB's isn't going to solve the issue. We will still get joule creep out of HPA and GBBR guns and some AEGs.

 

The only real way is to test with the BBs that are actually going to be used and know their weight. Might be interesting to start using scales to confirm BB weight and the first time you do quite a few people are going to be getting kicked off site for lying.

[GunmanAirsoft]

Chronoing with 0.20g BB's isn't going to solve the issue. We will still get joule creep out of HPA and GBBR guns and some AEGs.

 

The only real way is to test with the BBs that are actually going to be used and know their weight. Might be interesting to start using scales to confirm BB weight and the first time you do quite a few people are going to be getting kicked off site for lying.

Or having to keep a stock of all the different weights and chrono with known BBs. Gonna push costs up though

[Samurai]

Or having to keep a stock of all the different weights and chrono with known BBs. Gonna push costs up though

Really? Like 10BBs / person?

[Sacarathe]

Really? Like 10BBs / person?

 

 

Well, wouldn't that be closer to 120 BBs for each gun per person? Got to be prepared for everyone to have 0.12g or 0.43g?

 

I still don't get the problem though, do all the people using 0.2, then all the people on the next most common weight, and so on.

[Jedi_Master]

Who the hell uses 0.12g BB? Unless it is a JustBBguns special for 330 fps. I thought all airsoft guns, not plinker crap, had to use a minimum of 0.20g. Is there not a simple conversion table? 0.20g BB is 330fps, 0.25g is xxxfps, etc.

 

I like the fact that The Mall uses their 0.20g BB in all magazines, either magazines they provide or fill they your mag with their BB to chrono.

 

What we really need is one industry standard, government regulated and calibrated, chronograph across all airsoft sites. That way your gun should not fluctuate readings from site to site.

[Dentonboy]

Who the hell uses 0.12g BB? Unless it is a JustBBguns special for 330 fps. I thought all airsoft guns, not plinker crap, had to use a minimum of 0.20g. Is there not a simple conversion table? 0.20g BB is 330fps, 0.25g is xxxfps, etc.

 

I like the fact that The Mall uses their 0.20g BB in all magazines, either magazines they provide or fill they your mag with their BB to chrono.

 

What we really need is one industry standard, government regulated and calibrated, chronograph across all airsoft sites. That way your gun should not fluctuate readings from site to site.

 

This is exactly what sites need to do.

 

There is far too much fluctuation between chrono' brands.

[Sitting Duck]

a small tiny smidge over is fine with me

it is the w@nkers that overkill or just dicks in general on 349.99fps that I don't love

deliberate cheating chrono - well that to me just implies they have to overcompensate for stuff - not just airsoft

(and they are not just dicks but complete c**ts in my book)

[Jedi_Master]

a small tiny smidge over is fine with me

it is the w@nkers that overkill or just dicks in general on 349.99fps that I don't love

deliberate cheating chrono - well that to me just implies they have to overcompensate for stuff - not just airsoft

(and they are not just dicks but complete c**ts in my book)

Do not sit on the fence Mr Duck 😉

I do hate cheaters. If they want to do that at chrono, what will they be like during gameplay.

[Sitting Duck]

Not on the fence, just saying if some poor sod has a gun just creeping over now n then say 5fps over and no spare I could stomach that if they played carefully and properly

 

That instance is still over but I'd rather go against somebody who played fairly in the game that get overkilled loads and some more by twats taking me out and not noticing I'm hit walking back to spawn/dead zone - yes you will get the odd shot or two we know that walking back to dead/spawn etc....

but a few times I found me saying I'm hit, then shouting hit - hit ffs are they deaf as well as blind or just stupid

 

The deliberate cheaters - well they won't be the ones at the chrono trying to see if gun might just drop a whisker

they would have tried it already or altered stuff lunchtime or when they next have to reload/change battery etc...

others even try to sneak in guns that appeared to have passed the chrono - hence sites change their chrono pass marking methods

 

THESE are the ones that I really hope do not exist in high numbers coz as you say if they disregard the chrono then they really won't give a toss about anything else but themselves - certainly not fair play or other players safety etc......

 

I had SRC Dragon shooting 355-357 and couldn't use it which I accepted and used a 280-300fps gun instead

yes it was over but in reality there is no way the SRC would have outranged a sweetly setup TM @ say 300fps

so quite likely it was gonna fall well short and lose energy quicker resulting in perhaps less sting at medium range than the TM etc....

Though will point out range is magnus than raw fps - could still sting a bit in cqb even if dropping quickly

 

but I accepted this but luckily had a so-so spare to use - just saying I do understand the odd whisker and site's sensible ruling if just now n then the odd shot just creeping over the limit - think most sites apply a bit of sense/logic to rare slightly higher shots as long as it is just that

(The SRC was consistently over and can't argue with that I should add)

[n1ckh]

I had a similar problem where my SA80 was 351 at the chrono. The Marshall said don't be a dick, use semi only & we'll test again at lunchtime. It had dropped to 344 after I chopped half a coil off so was more than happy

 

Marshall discretion is a must in my eyes & if you go along with what they say then you'll be ok. I've heard people saying 'my rifle won't pass so I'll dial up the hop so it does pass' then dial it down again so it's over