Supporters ImTriggerHappy Posted March 22, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 22, 2016 NSP's for Airsofting is a great idea. It drummed in the safety aspect for me with a real weapon so why not a RIF?IQ or aptitude tests might be better. Question 1; Is it a good idea to point your gun in a friend's face and pull the trigger. If you answer is No go to question 2 If your answer is yes then your a nob head so quit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James1989 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 IQ or aptitude tests might be better. Question 1; Is it a good idea to point your gun in a friend's face and pull the trigger. If you answer is No go to question 2 If your answer is yes then your a nob head so quit now. I dont know making them quit seems harsh they can play...they just arent allowed the gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumps Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I kind of agree with the idea of a safety brief to all new players, once completed they then sign a form to say they have had the brief, then if incidents happen they have no excuses. but I don't agree that kids should be singled out. A safety brief for all players not just under 16's. For instance I trained my son by firstly buying him a cheap springer pistol. We spoke about safety and why you handle a gun like its always loaded. I told him that if I see him handle the gun well & don't get stupid with it, he will one day own a higher spec gun but he has to prove himself worthy to take responsibility for his own actions. fast forward a year later when he's invited to a back yard plinking war with his mates who all had cheap two tones. When I asked him if he'd had fun, he said he went home early because he didn't take part. Basically he'd refused to take part because some of them wouldn't wear eye protection. He is now a fully kitted out Airsofter who is well known for his grown up approach to playing & will often accompany middle age blokes into a charge and gets treated like an equal by most of the regular players. I have to also point out I have seen grown ups pick up someone's rifle (with finger on the trigger) in the safe zone & look down the sights, pointing it at head height. these are guys who should know better but obviously don't, or worse do know better but ignore their own knowledge. I also often see dry firing when the weapon is not pointed at the floor, again very dangerous. Although I am not ex military or a weapon handling specialist, I do use basic common sense when it comes to gun handling, in my experience I still see more adults than kids act with a poor attitude towards safety. Saying that all kids need to be treat like idiots is just plain idiotic in its approach. What I am repeating from a previous post don't single an age group out just because of the actions of a few, using that logic we should be treating all adults as possible suicide bombers, it really is that ridiculous. Yes I've seen kids do stupid stuff, but then again I've seen so called experienced airsofters do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastmode Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Ok I'm not going to write a massive essay like some on here as it's all been covered already. I personally feel if under 16 players want to play then they need to be supervised by an adult. Also I'm not wearing eye protection when I'm in the safe zone eating my lunch or drinking tea as they can fog up. Muzzle socks are a good idea. But ultimately it's down to the site to enforce the rules and don't let people dry fire in the safe zone, mags out etc. There are some seriously stupid people out there of all ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastmode Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Also to the people that say leave weapons in a separate area. No chance. To big of a risk of it getting stolen most of us plough far to much money into our guns to leave them out of sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg147 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I've seen some kids doing stupid things, but I've also seen kids who look like they might actually have a bit of sense about them. The same as with adults, basically. This weekend I saw two incidents that made me shake my head; the first was when I walked into the safe zone and saw two guys holding their M4s one-handed at arms length, pointing them at each others faces, barrels practically touching. They were laughing and circling each other like some kind of Mexican standoff. Performed by muppets. The second was when I was walking back from a game and a guy with a two-tone gun kept firing shots at the people walking ahead, about twenty meters away. He didn't know them, and they got increasing frustrated as he did it. I overheard him telling his mate that he 'liked it when they turned around' (which was apparently a source of great entertainment to his simple mind). I'd estimate the age of those in both incidents being early twenties. The guy in the second incident was obviously new to the game (two-tone gun, his mates kept telling him that his behaviour would get him 'kicked out of the airsoft community' (although they laughed as they said it)). The ones in the first had their own guns and gear, so looked to be regulars. I guess targeting particular groups for training wouldn't actually solve the problem, and would just add extra work for the marshals at the start of each day, delaying games for those who actually have common sense. Even the muzzle-sock idea wouldn't be full proof (if someone thinks it's okay to aim a gun at another player in the safe zone, they're just as likely to remove the sock (maybe for a tacti-cool picture), and it only takes a few seconds to pull the trigger from there). I can't imagine many players would be fond of the 'gun zone' either, especially with tinkering that goes on between games. And it would require re-organizing every site to include two separate zones. Some sites barely have one. I'd say the simplest option would be that no player is allowed back into the safe-zone until a marshal has seen them dry fire. Most sites seem to already have a marshal checking magazines are out, why not just add 'a few shots into the bushes please?' onto the end of that check? Once they've done that, the marshal lets them pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Anyone who says "yep let's ban the kids, good riddance to those dirty peasants" are wrong I'm afraid not all kids like me are silly enough to be nobs. I have for one, not shot anyone deliberately in the safe zone, I have not cheated (hit calling, over limit guns) in matter of fact, I try and play to the rules as close as possible, if not bang on the rules. So IF you are thinking that ALL kids should be banned. You're deluded. I'm not saying all kids are safe and mature, there will be stupid kids, but at the same time, there are stupid adults. Seems a bit harsh to ban kids. Might as well ban paintball, football, rugby, cricket, squash, marbles, tennis for kids aswell. I could easily knock someone out with a cricket bat... But I wouldn't, just the same as I could throw a marble at someone's head. not saying all you guys want kids gone. But whoever is should be ashamed imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Muzzle socks are a good idea. Fantastic idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo88 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Why don't site just get marshalls to make sure that everyone takes the mag out and dry fires their gun and enforce the rules of no mags in the gun within the safezone as it should be anyway. All the talk of weapon handling courses and muzzle socks is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengus Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Might as well ban paintball, football, rugby, cricket, squash, marbles, tennis for kids aswell. They've already started banning rugby in England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 They've already started banning rugby in England Yes, but it hasn't been banned as of now. As I am currently playing it at my school, full contact. You know what you cheeky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 But, yes, rugby is being limited to what can happen. This post has really brought the attention of the members on this forum... Lots of pages. So here's a dog. http://m.imgur.com/gallery/9ITk70Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengus Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yes, but it hasn't been banned as of now. As I am currently playing it at my school, full contact. You know what you cheeky. What position do you play? On topic: Just clear your guns leave mags out and don't point them at people, pretty much don't be a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 What position do you play? On topic: Just clear your guns leave mags out and don't point them at people, pretty much don't be a dick. Inside centre, where do you? Otherly, I think it's down to trust of the other players to take mags out, dry fire outside etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengus Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Inside centre, where do you? Otherly, I think it's down to trust of the other players to take mags out, dry fire outside etc. Usually 6 but sometimes 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Usually 6 but sometimes 7 Oh yeah, used to play there, it's a fun position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aengus Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Oh yeah, used to play there, it's a fun position. Better than being in the backs pishing about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albiscuit Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Personally I think the safe zone should be that... Safe! I wouldnt expect to get shot in the face, I KNOW theres a risk there, there always has been.. People with RIFs, tinkering, checking battery level by dry firing etc. Hell even at Epsom I shat myself as 3 player marshals were having a full blown pistol fight in the safe zone with NO EYEPRO whilst paying customers were sitting there with none on... suffice to say John was not a happy camper. Also have seen a loaded moscart (facing upwards) go off on someone while it was in a pouch and peppered them in the chin, luckily it missed the face. But after all the comments and the other thread I can see the need for something in certain situations. I guess im saying my opinion has changed a bit and depending on the situation and location I may be inclined to wear my glasses in the safe zone. BUT as demonstrated at the Mall (in my experience) I shouldnt need too and I think this is the main point in all the discussions. Accidents can happen, hell someone could ping me in the face with an elastic band in the office an I could lose an eye. I just wish people were more sensible, although I suppose we have all had our moments of stupidness. I guess each site should do a "HOW SAFE IS OUR SAFE ZONE" risk assessment ASAP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex34 Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Scary stuff. Makes one reassess themselves. I've been to Absolute and they are a bit laxed but to be fair this could have happened anywhere. The fact that they aren't as vigilant as they should be only compounds the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters NickM Posted March 27, 2016 Supporters Share Posted March 27, 2016 I think the idea that "this could have happened anywhere" is a problematic one. I have to quote my dad here (wow this is a first for this forum) "accidents don't just happen!". He worked for an international outdoor education provider and would as part of his duties perform safety reviews of his own and of other sites. It's true, they don't just happen, in this instance as has already been mentioned there were a catalogue of errors that mean this shouldn't have happened! If any one of these things had happened correctly the result never would have occurred. 1. Dry firing banned in the safezone. 2. Basic player conduct and safe zone rules mentioned on sign in and expanded on /repeated at briefing. (there is a reason even though you have been to the site 20 times that year you must sit through this! And it massively F's me off when people dick about during safety brief, I would treat this seriously, if you cant pay attention to this you shouldn't be on site full stop!) 3. Marshal presence in the safe zone monitoring 1 and 2. 4. On returning to the safe zone marshals indicate positively to mag out and take clearing shots to each player (a ball ache but not impossible, UCAP sandpit do this every game to regularly well over 100 players). 5. The player had removed his mag, cocked and fired his weapon 6. Put the safety catch on. 7. The marshals had observed steps 5, 6 and positively checked each weapon for mag out. Notice I have 5 of my 7 steps focused on the marshal and site team this is because they are responsible for players knowing and understanding their requirements for safe conduct at the site. However the responsibility lies with the players ultimately to follow the instructions and expectations ensuring safety for all. While there is a possibility of this happening at any site, it just doesn't happen because the behaviour listed in this post in most sites just wouldn't be tolerated. Please note at no point has age been mentioned, I genuinely don't think age is factor, I have met incredibly mature teens and massively immature 50 year olds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex34 Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 All of that sounds good but we don't know the full story and the fact that players are meddling with their guns (reloading, regasing, readjusting) in the safe zone of every airsoft site in the UK leads to the possibility of accidents. None of what you listed would have prevented the accident if the player irresponsibly reloaded his rifle in the safe zone. Socks on the barrels would be the only prevention and even then an irresponsible player could take his off in the safe zone and this could happen. Marshalls cannot watch everyone all the time and you as a player cannot leave your health in the hands of some one else just because he/she has been safety briefed. The best cure is prevention. Wearing safety glasses in the safe zone is the best way you can protect yourself I think. The same as wearing full face protection or goggles in live areas. It's something I will be seriously looking into. It only takes one bb and one accidental discharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDragon Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Anyone local to the incident got an update on the lad as to how he is doing? Anything about him in the local rag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1ckh Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Anyone local to the incident got an update on the lad as to how he is doing? Anything about him in the local rag? From what I've read, he's lost his eye but otherwise he's on the mend (apart from nightmares etc that accompanies a trauma like that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunty Pasty Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 From what I've read, he's lost his eye but otherwise he's on the mend (apart from nightmares etc that accompanies a trauma like that) That's a real shame but from what people have said earlier in the thread, not unexpected. I didn't see anything further regarding this on Facebook UKAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1ckh Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 That's a real shame but from what people have said earlier in the thread, not unexpected. I didn't see anything further regarding this on Facebook UKAC. It is & it's a crying shame that things like this happen but sometimes we do have to learn the hard way I will be wearing my eyrpro in the safe zone now (my sites pretty hot on safety) & I will be making my boys do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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