War or Military novel recommendations?

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

What military or war novels have you enjoyed reading and would recommend?

 

Bravo Two Zero, by Andy McNab is obviously the quintessential modern SF war story, which paved the way for an entire genre of similar stories from around the world. McNab has continued to churn out many books some great, some no so. B2Z is an essential read for all with a military interest imo and even a good read for those without.

 

 

I have also just finished Sniper One by Dan Mills. Absolutely brilliant read. Its a nice simplistic style for those who don't "do" reading, but detailed enough that you can really get to know the guys and the shitstorm they lived in. It details the 2004 siege of Cimic House in Iraq and some great perspectives from both a sniper view but a normal military view too. I didn't expect much from it, but it blew me away.

 

I can foresee a few "bah kid, readin iz 4 gayz!!1!, all abowt da battlfeild4z!" .... two things; 1) Shut up. 2) try The New Recruit, by McNab again. Its aimed at young prospective military recruits and is written in a great supportive way. Its the story of a young naive lad who joins up. It follows from day 1 to the day he leaves his first tour of duty and covers all the highs and lows of military life. its not very "special forces" its not very technical and its not long or hard (but your mum seems to like it). It may as well be a Army Careers pamphlet, but its a good read for those who don't like to read, and those that want a proper "underdog grunt" story.

 

So what would you recommend?

 

[Russe11]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Men-Who-Came-Out-Ground/dp/0733628184

 

Hard book to get hold of at a decent price as it is only published in Australia, so maybe one to get on Kindle. It's a fascinating story about a little bit of WW2 that hardly anyone has heard of. Basically Australia invaded East Timor which was a Portuguese colony and therefore neutral. When the Japanese invaded Timor, one Company of Australian commandos held out for a year, tying up something like 200,000 Japanese troops. They were assumed to have been captured soon after the invasion as they had no radio capable of contacting Australia, so they built one out of parts they had to steal.

It may seem like an unimportant part of the war, until you realise that those 200,000 Japanese would otherwise have been available for use in Guadalcanal or New Guinea. It also puts into perspective everything that happened to East Timor after WW2; Australia not opposing Indonesian invasion etc.

[sp00n]

sniper one is brilliant

 

my recomendations :-

 

Generation kill - Evan write - US marines

one bullet away - Nathaniel fick - US marines (parts of generation kill happen in this)

danger close - stuart tootal - UK

zero six bravo - Daimen lewis - UK

firestrike 7/9 - Paul 'Bommer' Grahame and Damien Lewis - UK - Paul is a JTAC - epic story

Apache dawn - Damien lewis - UK

Apache - ed macy - UK

hellfire - ed macy (follow up to apache, more his personel life story) - UK

 

i have too many books to list lol

 

EDIT :-

 

i have to add "to the last round" by andrew salmon - epic account of the British stand on the imjin river in the Korean war

[Mack]

If you liked the Pacific I would recommend these first 2 and Ive just finished the last one which was good too.

Helmet for my pillow by Robert Leckie
Beginning with boot camp in MCRD Parris Island, South Carolina, the story follows Leckie through basic training and then to New River, North Carolina where he is briefly stationed, and follows him to the Pacific.

Leckie is assigned to the 1st Marine Division and is deployed to Guadalcanal, Melbourne Australia, New Guinea, Cape Gloucester, before being evacuated with wounds from the island of Peleliu. Helmet for My Pillow is told from an enlisted man's point of view; a reprint edition stated the book was about "the booze, the brawling, the loving on 72-hour liberty, the courageous fighting and dying in combat as the U.S. Marines slugged it out, inch by inch, across the Pacific."[3]

With The Old breed by Eugene Sledge
Sledge's memoir gives a perspective on the Pacific Theater of World War II. His memoir is a front-line account of infantry combat in the Pacific War. It brings the reader into the island hopping, the jungle heat and rain, the "banzai attack" or full frontal assault used by his enemies. Sledge wrote starkly of the brutality displayed by American and Japanese soldiers during the battles, and of the hatred that both sides harbored for each other. In Sledge's words, "This was a brutish, primitive hatred, as characteristic of the horror of war in the Pacific as the palm trees and the islands."

Sledge describes one instance in which he and a comrade came across the mutilated bodies of three Marines, including one Marine whose genitals had been cut off and stuffed into the corpse's mouth. He also describes the behavior of some Marines towards dead Japanese, including the removal of gold teeth from Japanese corpses (and, in one case, a severely wounded but still living Japanese soldier), as well as other disturbing trophy-taking.

Sledge describes in detail the sheer physical struggle of living in a combat zone and the debilitating effects of constant fear, fatigue, and filth. "Fear and filth went hand-in-hand," he wrote. "It has always puzzled me that this important factor in our daily lives has received so little attention from historians and is often omitted from otherwise excellent personal memoirs by infantrymen." Marines had trouble staying dry, finding time to eat their rations, practicing basic field sanitation (it was impossible to dig latrines or catholes in the coral rock on Peleliu), and simply moving around on the pulverized coral of Peleliu and in the mud of Okinawa.


Service: A Navy Seal at war by Marcus Luttrell

 

In Service, we follow Marcus Luttrell to Iraq, where he returns to the battlefield as a member of SEAL Team 5 to help take on the most dangerous city in the world: Ramadi, the capital of war-torn Al Anbar Province. There, in six months of high-intensity urban combat, he would be part of what has been called the greatest victory in the history of U.S. Special Operations forces. We also return to Afghanistan and Operation Redwing, where Luttrell offers powerful new details about his miraculous rescue. Throughout, he reflects on what it really means to take on a higher calling, about the men he's seen lose their lives for their country, and the legacy of those who came and bled before.

[SimonQuigley]

No easy day by Mark Owen - About Neptune spear

Lone survivor by Marcus Luttrell - About Operation redwing

[Mike636]

Unbroken - about Louis Zamperini

[Mack]

No easy day by Mark Owen - About Neptune spear

Lone survivor by Marcus Luttrell - About Operation redwing

 

Just being Pedantic but its Operation Red Wings, Two different Ops

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Redwing

[SimonQuigley]

Just being Pedantic but its Operation Red Wings, Two different Ops

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Redwing

That's what I thought, but the cover of the book says Redwing

[Mack]

Cover is wrong

 

"The Marine Battalion--3rd Battalion of the 3rd Regiment--that initially planned the mission used sports teams to name their missions. Previous missions were called Spurs, Mavericks and Celtics, and after all the Texan and Boston team names were used up, the 3/3 Marines decided to switch to hockey names. Luttrell’s Operation Redwing doesn’t exist; the mission was called Operation Red Wings, like the Detroit hockey team"

 

"I understand that little details and facts will be lost in such a crazy attack, but getting the mission name wrong is bizarre, especially getting it wrong in the first draft, second draft, manuscript, galley proof and paperback edition. For the rest of our posts we will refer to the mission as Operation Red Wings, to be factually accurate"

 

http://onviolence.com/?e=234

[Chock]

Some good suggestions on this thread, however, many of them are not novels but rather factual accounts - novel: a fictitious prose narrative of book length, typically representing character and action with some degree of realism. So anyway, pedant mode off, here's three unusual recommendations, in that they are all, on the face of it at least, children's books, or at least books aimed at young adults. Of course you shouldn't let that put you off, after all, being one of Heinlein's 'juvie' novels, Starship Troopers was aimed at early teen readers, and we all know what a cool book that is, if a little controversial. So, one from each realm of war, air, land and sea...

 

If you're interested in WW1 and aviation, then as far as novels are concerned, I would seriously recommend reading W.E. John's very early Biggles novel - Biggles Learns to Fly - for whilst it is true that in later novels, Biggles books were very much intended to be 'thrilling takes' for adolescent boys, the early Biggles novels, and particularly Biggles Learns to Fly, was written before Johns had really established his young audience, so it is actually quite adult in its approach (fairly grim in places) and is certainly not afraid to cover subjects such as death and what we'd now call post traumatic stress disorder. It's also notable for being more than a little autobiographical; W.E. John's was in the RFC, and later the RAF, although unlike his fighter pilot fictional hero, Johns was a bomber pilot, which of course required no less skill or bravery. Thus what we have in the early Biggles novels, is the rare combination of a skilled writer who is writing about a subject with which he was intimately familiar, particularly since Johns was in fact shot down, survived the incident, was a POW, though sadly, his gunner did not survive the encounter. Many of these experiences make it into the book in fictionalised form. I like this book so much that I re-read it every once in a while, and I must say that every time I do so, it reminds me of the times when I was a nervous student pilot, learning to fly myself. Seriously, don't be put off by the notion that this is a kid's book, because it really isn't, it's a cracking read.

 

And speaking of cracking reads, here's another supposedly 'kid's book' which is well worth getting hold of - Cracker!: The Best Dog in Vietnam, by Cynthia Kadohata. This is interesting in that it is written from several viewpoints of the various characters in the book, including that of a young boy's pet German Shepherd Dog, Cracker, who is taken up by the US Army and trained as a booby-trap sniffer dog for service in South East Asia during the Vietnam War, after the boy's father loses his job and cannot afford to keep Cracker. And yes, I know that the notion of writing from an animal's point of view sounds cheesy, but trust me, it is not, it is in fact unbelievably convincing and insightful (I have a GSD myself, and I found it utterly convincing). Again, this is a book which is not afraid to tackle difficult subjects such as death, loss and the like, and not least the sense of loss the boy feels when he has to give up Cracker. It also focuses on how poorly many veterans were treated upon returning to the States after serving in Vietnam, which is why I would hardly call it a kid's book. But perhaps of more interest to people in this forum, is the level of research and authenticity in the military aspects of the book, particularly when Cracker and his handler are seconded to work with a Special Forces unit in the jungle (it came as no surprise to learn that again, much of the book is based on a true story). I actually learned quite a few things I did not know about SF operations before from this book, and trust me, I've got rows and rows of books on the pretty much every war, including Vietnam, so I considered myself fairly expert on it, yet still learned some new stuff. Seriously recommended, although warning, it will make you cry, but not for the reasons you may suspect, however, I won't spoil it for you. Certainly one of the most exciting and innovative war novels ever, particularly for its writing style and intuition into how dogs might perceive us. Even your girlfriend will like this book, but you'll probably like it more. I would go so far as to say that this is the best war novel I've ever read, and I'd put money on you agreeing with me if you do read it. Can be found cheap on ebay too!

 

The Lame Duck by Richard Armstrong, is again aimed at young adults, and I in fact did take this out from my local library and read it when I was a kid, since it was published in 1961, but I had such fond memories of it, that I sought out a used copy of it (since it is long out of print) and read it again a couple of years ago, and was pleased to note that it was not mere nostalgic memories that impressed me, it is a very good tale and is one of a series of novels which follow the same characters throughout their war service. Armstrong was a radio operator in the Merchant Navy between 1920 and 1937, but worked as a typist in WW2. He started writing novels in 1942, most of which centered around the Merchant Navy convoys in WW2, so his novels are written with much authority and knowledge, and it shows in the finely crafted stories and details. The Lame Duck focuses on a young lad serving aboard a Merchant Navy tanker, when his ship is hit and left behind as the convoy it was part of maintains speed to avoid also being torpedoed, and the remainder of the story focuses on the efforts of the crew to keep their lone ship afloat and make it through with vital supplies, limping along whilst severely damaged and playing cat and mouse with the U-Boats of the Kriegsmarine. A compelling story of heroism from those who had to step up to the plate and find courage to fight the enemy even when they were not in the military, often a part of the war which receives little attention. It's hard to find a copy of it, but like any book which is hard to find, www.abebooks.co.uk nearly always comes up trumps and is well worth bookmarking on your browser if you are seeking a rare out of print publication.

[Russe11]

Although they may not be novels by definition, I personally think that there are enough amazing stories about things that actually happened during wars for military fiction to be a fairly pointless thing to read. Why not have the entertaining read and educate yourself at the same time?

Another good book is Vulcan 607 by Rowland White

It's the story of the 1st Vulcan Bomber raid on Port Stanley during the Falklands war. It's a fascinating story covering all the planning and preparations for the raid and all the logistics of the refuelling plan needed to fly such a ridiculous distance.

[straffham]

Few I've read recently:

TO THE LAST MAN (Jeff Shaara, Bantam Books) WW1 novel based on facts around the parts played by Manfred von Richthofen, Generals Ludendorff and Pershing as well as soldiers on the ground and airmen. Full of historical detail including the Battle of Belleau Wood, reducing the St. Mihiel salient, Battle of Blanc Mont ridge. Much about trench life etc. Lots about the air battles too from the perspectives of the combatants, and much about the logistical and political problems faced by the Americans as they entered the war. At 842 pages its not light reading but gives a good insight into the Great War from soldiers up to politicians viewpoints.

SPEARHEAD ASSAULT (John Geddes, Century) best Falklands campaign book I've read, about 2 Para and the Battle for Goose Green, written by one of the combatants. Kept me hooked throughout, genuinely a book I couldn't put down, crammed with information and interest.

PATHFINDER: A SPECIAL FORCES MISSION BEHIND ENEMY LINES (David Blakeley, Orion) "Real life Black Ops" according to Frederick Forsyth, it details the authors tour of Iraq in 2003 as part of the UKSF, and a mission that went wrong from the start when plans to HALO onto their airfield target were changed to a road vehicle insertion, leading the 9 man mission to have to fight their way back to friendly forces. Found this slow to get going but really good otherwise.

[Josh95]

I studied Wilfred Owen when I did English lit, he has wrote some fantastic pieces of the great war. might no be everyones cup of tea.

[AirsoftTed]

I can't recall the authors name but "Masters of War" is a good read. It's about the SAS, some real bone chilling stuff that I wouldn't suggest for those weak of stomach. No easing in period, straight into the nitty gritty, despite being a bit brutal in places it kept me hooked.

[Chock]

Although they may not be novels by definition, I personally think that there are enough amazing stories about things that actually happened during wars for military fiction to be a fairly pointless thing to read. Why not have the entertaining read and educate yourself at the same time?

 

Fair comment, and I do indeed have bookshelves literally groaning under the weight of the hundreds of factual books I have on all kinds of warfare, from medieval times right up to modern day, as it is certainly a major interest of mine and is something I know we can all learn from. Funnily enough, when people come to my house and see the guns all over the place and all the books on warfare, they are often incredibly surprised, since they generally know me as some pony-tailed guitar playing lefty who is fairly anti-war for the most part, although even though I am of the opinion that war is a truly horrible thing I would never say that there can be absolutely no justification for going to war, and that opinion stems from having read a lot about it. So what I tell them, is that if one is not prepared to learn from history, then one is neither equipped to comment on it, nor able to avoid repeating its failures. But I still think that some of my friends find it difficult to reconcile the fact that I could actually be hugely interested in warfare, but almost always dead against it if and when it occurs. That's why I like airsoft, the weaponry and equipment is generally very realistic, but it is quite literally 'war without tears'.

 

But with regard to military novels being largely pointless when there are so many factual accounts to be read, I would say that there are still plenty of reasons to read novels on the subject, since there are many wars from history where there is very little concise reading material. A good example would be the Roman Empire. Most people are fairly convinced that all Roman troops were kitted out in shiny Lorica Segmentata, wielding a gladius, and carrying a rectangular semi-circular shield, painted red with a yellow lightning bolt design on it, because that gear looks cool and, as a consequence, is what Hollywood goes for, a bit like when they have every Wehrmacht soldier carrying an MP40. But there are actually only two sources of genuine information for that notion, Trajan's column in Rome, which depicts that segmentata equipment, and a very badly preserved section of a shield which was recovered from a cave in the early Twentieth Century, and it is known that segmentata armor was used in only a small period of the Roman Empire's term. So in order to become really knowledgeable about Roman Army equipment, or their tactics, you have to become quite the scholar in terms of reading material, studying dozens of books from academic authors such as Adrian Goldsworthy and the like, and that kind of commitment to study is not for everyone. Nor can you solely rely on writings from the time, such as Julius Ceasar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico if you want to get a true depiction of his campaigns in Gaul and Ancient Britain, because for one thing, he was writing them with a view to setting himself up for a political career when he got back to Rome, so they are largely propaganda, and for another, he doesn't half dress up some of the battles where we know in reality he got his arse kicked. Thus when someone such as Simon Scarrow writes works of fiction about the Legions, he has taken the time (as I have too) to become widely read on factual studies of the Roman army, its order of battle, tactics and equipment, thus Scarrow's novels are both entertaining and as accurate as we can hope such a book to be, which means Joe Blow can pick one up and read it, learn something accurate, but without having to read tons of other stuff on the subject.

 

The same is true of the Napoleonic Wars. You can certainly find many factual books on them, and I have many of them myself, but the average reader is more likely to be inclined to read Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series of novels, because for one they are brilliant, but perhaps more importantly, they are brilliantly researched, and thus as accurate as we could hope for. Whereas if you want to read something from someone who was actually genuinely experienced in those naval battles, you're basically limited to a smaller choice of books, perhaps most notably, the brilliant Mr Midshipman Easy, by Frederick Marryat, who is notable for being an author that even Charles Dickens was in awe of. Marryat was genuinely a midshipman on board HMS Imperieuse in 1806, and went on through the ranks to end up as a Captain, so his novel is written with knowledge and wit, and is, naturally enough, one of my favourites. Thus the average person who fancies a bit of a read on Napoleonic warfare is far more inclined to do so via Bernard Cornwell's novels about rifleman Richard Sharpe, or Patrick O'Brian's Captain Aubrey, than they are to read an 1849 copy of Nautical Routine Spars and Rigging, and yes, that one genuinely is on my bookshelf lol. Fascinating it may be to history buffs, but I know the average person wouldn't want to trawl through that to learn that the term 'I don't like the cut of his jib' refers to the Bourbon alliance's practice of trimming their jib sails smaller to allow better steering in the strong winds found in the bay of Biscay, thus enabling British captains to identify French warships when they were still a long way off by their smaller jib sails. Far more exciting to read Captain Aubrey saying, 'I don't like that jib, it's cut too small to be a British ship.' You still end up learning the origin of the term, but in a more entertaining and accessible way.

[Lozart]

Seriously? Nobody has suggest "All Quiet on the Western Front"? Disappointed. Very disappointed.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Quiet-Western-Front-Erich-Remarque/dp/0099532816/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414765322&sr=1-1&keywords=all+quiet+on+the+western+front

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

I think you are getting carried away with semantics a little.

[Lozart]

I think you are getting carried away with semantics a little.

 

I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean Chock there.

 

In which case, yes I tend to agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand if you meant me then HOW VERY DARE YOU, SIR!

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

No no not aimed at anyone specific.

 

The title was specifically vague, "good books you would recommend that retain a high level of realism and integrity to the truth, but allow a degree of flair and embellishment for both entertainment and matters of national security, focusing on western allied, conflicts spanning from WW1 to present day, or possibly more historic wars if you recommend them. I will also allow books based around a realistic theme of military service, but with fictitious characters participating in real historic events." just doesn't feel as snappy.

[jcheeseright]

my recommendations are all from Royal Navy pilots in relatively recent years:

 

Joint force harrier - Afghanistan, Naval Strike Wing

Scram! - Falklands, commando helicopter force

Armed action - Iraq, 847NAS

[Chock]

The title was specifically vague, "good books you would recommend that retain a high level of realism and integrity to the truth, but allow a degree of flair and embellishment for both entertainment and matters of national security, focusing on western allied, conflicts spanning from WW1 to present day, or possibly more historic wars if you recommend them. I will also allow books based around a realistic theme of military service, but with fictitious characters participating in real historic events." just doesn't feel as snappy.

 

Nothing really that vague or long winded about the title of the thread, it says 'war or military novels'. I'm not averse to it diverging into non-fiction and reading some decent recommendations from people, but there is nothing semantic about the word novel, it's pretty clear what that was referring to.

 

Anyway, (nearly) back on topic, here's one that isn't a novel but is definitely one to read: Robert Mason, Chickenhawk. His memoir of being a Huey pilot in Vietnam. Now that is a really great book.

[Superted87]

Any and all Frederick Forsyth Novels will entertain even the harshest of critics. I for one cannot stand reading or watching tv shows regarding the military if they are not accurate (or at least have the decency to cast Lacey Turner and her top shelf for us to watch whilst the missus cries about her boyfriend getting shot etc). These books keep me going offshore when I am working out on the rigs and they are fantastic!!

 

Top Reads -

 

The Avenger

The Afghan

Cobra

The Kill List

 

All amazing books !!

[Snowdrop]

Forsyth is a cracking author and has been for decades. He puts a tremendous amount of research into his novels and uses words very well.

For example the passport trick he used in day of the jackel was a genuine scam but never cracked down on.

[n1ckh]

Tom Clancy if you like thrillers, conspiracy theory and in some cases factual incidents

 

Or

 

Chris Ryan, you get into them so deep, its like your him and in the situations he got into, i got so deep into his escape & evasion book from gulf war 1, at one point I felt like I was looking through his eyes

[JamesAirsofterAgent]

Andy Mcnab Liam Scott series. However, I think those are for younger readers.

Read lots of Chris Ryan books and every one was great! Really enjoyed "All hell let loose", "Meeting the enemy" , "Rifleman" and "Forgotten voices of the Great War" which was staggering. All bar Andy Mcnab and Chris Ryan ones are ww2/ww1 books.