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clumpyedge

Bio BB's recommendations

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looking for recommendations of bio BB's

 

my hop is quite tempermental with what BB's i use, i use G&G bbs at the moment but i have a few games coming up that require me to use Bio's. also any heavy weight BB's would be helpful as well.

 

any links and or advice welcome :)

 

 

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Biosphere are really good (can't link to them, but Airsoft World sell them)

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Green Devils are excellent, better than most non-bios even.

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Weirdly I've had some problems with bio bbs as my old gun swallowed a massive amount from a high cap then spat most out, but those that stayed got damp from the humidity of where I kept my guns and bang next time I go to use my gun I've got these massive bulges in my inner barrel

 

So be careful

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Can now vouch that Green Devil bios are also very good so there's no excuse for littering :)

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A site that mandates bios? Presumably they also mandate polycarbonate eye protection as well? If you are using a mesh mask get a set of tac glasses or goggles before you go, those bio BBs are health hazard for mesh users. There is a reason most sites don't allow them let alone use them.

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While bright candle has eluded to a good point about bio bb's shattering at a more common rate than non bio from various peoples anecdotal evidence it is worth pointing this out again while we are back at the "fragments in the eye" chestnut.

 

The energy carried by a bb is down to its mass and velocity. Velocity will not increase on impact it will decrease, its a law of physics due to energy being lost as heat, sound and in this case dispersed amongst the fragments). What this means it that there is minimal chance of a bb fragment making it through mesh into your eye and causing damage due to its impact with your eye, however there is a chance of damaging your eye by rubbing your eye with a fragment inside it. Which is why I carry a sterile eye wash as part of my mini first aid pack and use mesh goggles.

 

This is because I have tried numerous polycarbonate glasses and goggles and had fogging issues every time regardless of how I treat them. Which leads to this argument in my head, see well for a limited time and reduce an already minimal risk of fragments but risk crashing into or falling into things, OR deal with the slight loss of light and face the already mentioned minimal risk of fragments.

 

I think sites banning BioBB's is short sighted, probably because its easier to ban something if you don't understand it fully or as soon as you hear a horror story. We really need to start moving to more sustainable ammo, leaving thousands of little plastic balls everywhere is not environmentally sound.

 

Your eye pro is your choice and I leave that up to you however I choose mesh for the reasons I have outlined above.

 

If you decide you don't want to know the maths behind my decision then stop here. If you want the numbers I have shown my maths so read on.

 

So I shall use.

momentum (kg m/s) = mass (kg) x velocity (m/s)

 

followed by

force (N) = change in momentum kg m/s) / time (s)

 

Assuming the largest possible fragment of a bb that could penetrate the largest hole in a pair of mesh goggles with all of the velocity it had at the point of leaving the barrel (350fps or 106.68 m/s).

 

It would be a cylinder 6mm long the diameter of a bb and (if we take the largest holed mesh something like) 1mm radius (2mm diameter)

 

V= pi x radius squared x height = 3.14.... x (1x1) x 6 = 18.85 mm3

 

Volume of a 6mm bb = 113.1 mm3

 

Therefore assuming the person is using a .25 g bb as many of us are, its mass in kg would be 0.00025kg

 

Therefore the bb fragment would be , 0.00025kg x 18.85/113.1 = 0.0000416666 kg (ie 0.0416g that's less than 1/5th the mass of the bb)

 

So assuming the bb fragment that has been calculated above makes it through the mesh at the full speed the bb left the barrel of an airsoft gun.

 

Momentum (kg m/s) = 0.0000416666 x 106.68 = 0.0044449929 kg m/s

 

for the next part we have to assume the change in momentum is from the number above to 0 in 0 seconds ( an instant which it isn't because it will slow over a fraction of a second which I can't calculate without a seriously good high speed camera)

 

Force (N) = 0.0044449929 x 0 = 0.0044449929 N

 

I've only managed to find one reference (its a nature paper and for some reason I can't copy and paste the link) to the force required to penetrate an eye which relates to needles penetrating the back layer of an eye which raises some further points which I will go over later. The lowest "maximum force" in the journal paper was 0.19N which is far higher than the number above.

 

Needles have a much smaller surface area compared to the fragment in question so require much less force to penetrate anything this is shown in the same paper where the same type of needle as above required double the force if it pierces the rubber top of a vial. If I was to do this properly we ought to compare pressures but I really don't think many will have made it this far.

 

In conclusion, penetration injuries are unlikely with mesh eyepro unless they failed catastrophically (including shots ricocheting around the lenses) which is exactly the same way you would be injured from using polycarbonate lenses.

 

Well done for all those who made it this far through my meandering thought processes!

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A site that mandates bios? Presumably they also mandate polycarbonate eye protection as well? If you are using a mesh mask get a set of tac glasses or goggles before you go, those bio BBs are health hazard for mesh users. There is a reason most sites don't allow them let alone use them.

 

What a feed of shite.

 

I've never ever played at a site that doesn't allow bio BBs, and I have played at a LOT of sites. In fact, I've played at a number of sites that DO mandate bio ammo, Skirmish in Exeter, MIA in north Devon, Spartan near Bristol (so much so they insist you use their ammo to guarantee everyone's using bio), CAA near Truro, Warminster airsoft... I could go on. They're not a health hazard for mesh users and they don't shatter any more readily than normal plastic BBs.

 

Reading scare stories on the internet is bad for you, spreading them as truth is bad for everyone.

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jcheeseright my thoughts exactly just put more succinctly than I felt I could, so I went with what I know science and some basic maths.

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I like to keep it to-the-point.

 

There's been a lot of information touted around on these forums recently which is clearly second hand from various internet sources, quite a lot of that information is wrong. If you don't KNOW the answer, why are you contributing information to someone else's thread? Spreading unverified hearsay is the way that "longer tighter barrel = more accurate" and "use heavier BB's to reduce your FPS for chrono" and similar get spread about.

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Various people have done tests that show even the normal BBs go through a mesh mask, here is a fairly comprehensive test showing no catastrophic failures, just typical fragments going through and damaging cardboard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igftdphEWRc

 

Its not some theoretical possibility it does happen. I had it happen on my first game with a mesh mask, but was lucky it wasn't my eye just the skin around it. Bio BBs do tend to powder more, that is an established fact in the airsoft world, its because the moment they touch the air they are degrading. The older they are the worse the effect is. I know there are some people here that are really happy with mesh and advise others, but that also goes against the established tests that have been done by the airsoft community on youtube and such that show that bio BBs powder, that mesh masks allow fragments through. An eye surgeon at eyefields hospital also advised me to use full protection polycarbonate so I didn't end up loosing an eye, he had seen too many airsoft injuries from glasses and mesh mask and warned me away from anything else.

 

Here is a video of every Bio BB splintering into a load of pieces and spraying off in all directions after hitting glass. They are meant to fall into 2 halves on impact, these are doing a lot more than that:

 

 

Those chips can absolutely go through a mesh mask.

 

We all choose our risk level, but to tell someone there isn't a risk with mesh is intellectually dishonest, the evidence is strongly against that position. You take the risk, but that doesn't mean there isn't one and that it isn't made worse by bio BBs, because it is.

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Well your surgeon is going against all the published medical literature on the subject from accross the globe. I'm not going to post it again, it's already linked on here, but sight threatening trauma caused by a bb is very rare, and mostly occurs to those not wearing any eye pro. In those cases of sight damage, it's caused by ocular pressure at the back of the eye after PENETRATING injury.

 

Low velocity bb fragments contacting the cornea does not cause sight damage.

 

And eyefields hospital? Where is that may I ask? And who is this surgeon? what's his name?

 

There is more evidence to suggest you are talking rubbish than there is to support the argument that

"mesh will make you blind"

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"that is an established fact in the airsoft world, its because the moment they touch the air they are degrading"

 

what. the. actual. fuck. Go do some research into what bio BBs are actually made of then come back. I'll start you off with the knowledge that air contact has sweet FA to do with the breakdown of any brand of bio BB.

 

Surely a bio BB 'powdering' is less likely to cause sight damage than a plastic BB shattering into shards? I'll blow a bit of talc into your eyes, then chuck a handful of sand into them... which is going to cause you more issues?

 

This message was sponsored by the folks at the University of Airsoft research YouTube Inc, become a 10 year old alumni without even needing to know about experimental controls, factor analysis or even compiling data to reach a conclusion! Just shoot some stuff at a bit of glass and say "yeah, that looks worse than the other one", boom, instant Airsoft PhD!

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Here is a video of every Bio BB splintering into a load of pieces and spraying off in all directions after hitting glass. They are meant to fall into 2 halves on impact, these are doing a lot more than that:

 

 

Those chips can absolutely go through a mesh mask.

 

We all choose our risk level, but to tell someone there isn't a risk with mesh is intellectually dishonest, the evidence is strongly against that position. You take the risk, but that doesn't mean there isn't one and that it isn't made worse by bio BBs, because it is.

 

 

Watch that video again, the Bioval BBs are the ones that are hard enough to shatter glass... the ones that explode into a million fragments are these:

http://www.airsoftoutletnw.com/products/airsoft-bbs/precision-airsoft-bbs/white-high-precision-25g-3-800-round-bbs

 

normal standard BBs, not bio, plastic.

 

QED.

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cant knock green devil excellent Bios

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In the interest of getting back on topic, of good bio BBs, I highly rate P&J bios from taiwangun.com, very consistent size and grouping and the don't start to clump up or disintegrate in air. If anything they are a bit too good, I have had some in my garden now for over 3 months and they still haven't even began to breakdown.

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In the interest of getting back on topic, of good bio BBs, I highly rate P&J bios from taiwangun.com, very consistent size and grouping and the don't start to clump up or disintegrate in air. If anything they are a bit too good, I have had some in my garden now for over 3 months and they still haven't even began to breakdown.

Great info! been looking at their .36g!

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Proball bio are very good, we tested them back to back with blasters on a target range and there was no discernable difference.

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