Sitting Duck

Thing is with me I will pay say £100-ish for a gun from Europe and "take my chances" unless it arrives in 2 dozen bits looking like Airfix kit I know it may need a tweak here n there (not too fussed about spring tbh) I know this may be a very good saving of £50+ maybe even more depending on model and won't bother to send it back I suppose unless I get an Airfix kit But if I buy from a UK place and I am not satisfied with I will return it for a repair/replacement/refund TOO BLOODY RIGHT - if I paid that bit extra for it in UK then I expect/demand good decent prompt UK customer service However - I do understand and support UK retailers, usually its quicker and good for them/us & the economy I suppose They also have to put up with genuine returns, thick as $hit new users who may have played an unknowing part if gun failing as well as people really abusing their new guns plus even the odd try it on scammers trying to return something..... Just in the really cheapo "BB sites" out there - always said one is dire, (I could say a lot lot more but won't) & another one offers better returns/customer service than the main well known one above All comes to price in the end - there is quite a difference in different UK retailers pricing and shipping costs is very easy to save £20 even £50+ on some UK special offers And if price isn't much different to Europe then I'll shop at home In fact All my G&G's have come from about 3 or 4 UK sellers - We seem to get a good deal on them Cyma's & JG usually do seem cheaper overseas though However recently this year I have noticed prices in Europe starting rise a bit and shipping costs too (free shipping now requires 175 to 300 Euro's - jeez) So either they are catching on or maybe I feel a rise in many things may be on the horizon with global currency rates up/down and prices held low for quite a while now that the world is "supposed to be coming out of recession" - yeah not sure about Greece though None of this price structure is really illegal - a seller can charge whatever they feel is correct price for an item they do not have to match any UK or Euro seller's price either... Basic law of economics - supply & demand, yes they may not shift loads of guns, but if you want that model asap and they have it stock at a higher price.... The final say is how is that gun worth to you and how much you are willing to pay for it - end of Otherwise we would have angry mobs outside Tesco's, Sainsburys, Morrisons etc... just coz Asda sell those apples at 49p but hang on Aldi were doing them last week at 39p..... Even the cheap offers are a ploy to get you in there - they bolt you up or charge you more on other items to get their profits back up a bit It is you the consumer that needs to check around and decide on what you buy/don't buy from tom dick harry airsoft I don't really think we get ripped off that badly to be honest - most stuff especially with recent rises in some European stores make me think we ain't doing too bad ATM !!!!! This could change though - we could be in line for some increases especially if the £ goes crap against the Euro - £1 = 1:38 Euro atm (very good) ain't brilliant against the $ - £1 = $1:53 - not brilliant really

Well I can be a bit of a tart sometimes..... Good thing about airsoft, hair tucked up & full face you can go and have fun shooting us chaps then watch us gasp at halftime we got whipped by a girly kidding - good on ya, and wish you well on your sport

Evike & Airsoft GI have numerous guns with MEP or whatever - no discounts or coupons can be used Also worth noting is though we buy the more "budget" range from europe at a good price them same retailers are no cheaper - in fact often more expensive on other stuff like G&G Raider's Dunno why - but no doubt it is all to do with larger volume discounts of sales of say Cyma's but you do wonder... How feckin cheap do these guys get them for ffs and are we being raped & mugged at same time buying cheap AK's over here in UK ??? Poland has 23% VAT btw so it ain't coz of UK VAT but maybe our import duty stings everybody a bit - but still begs the question why ???

Don't get me wrong - good quality parts are miles better than most stock parts Good SHS gears, better cylinders than cheap brass types, double o-ring cylinder heads etc.... Most of the time they will fit together very well and operate real smoothly But on occasions the tappet plate/nozzle/hop up bucking may not quite make a perfect seal and you can lose fps - on the expected performance - like Ian the AK man said about different nozzles etc... The bitch bit is with a brand new build if bits are not quite a perfect fit you can't compare old nozzle length/tappet etc..... So it became a bit of a bitch trying other parts and double checking stuff for Mr Monkey Nutz But usually most good TM parts work very well together and may only need a little check and tweak when assembling (all part of the "fun") and is where your skills and patience can be tested Getting a working box and adding a few upgrades is relatively straight forward - pah I can do that I'm sure it will all be fine sir - if you run into problems there are some very experienced people on here (not me - I'm thick as 2 planks) The link is a very good read though from some very clever mofo who knows a LOT more than I ever will about high rof

If you can work out the max diameter you can use inside front end of gun.... I would try to get an appropriate silencer tracer. Main reason - spend all that money on hop/tracer, go to a night skirmish main M4 goes tits up after first round.... Hop/tracer you are kind of screwed to start swapping over hops in the dark or just unscrew silencer tracer unit & refit to other spare aeg - back in the game to light them up

18:1 to 14:1 = aprox further 28% increase in rof I say aprox btw, might be a tiny bit less due to very slight increase in tension/gearing so say 25% if you stay on 7.4v you will should be fine if using 9.9v life then it may get closer with an additional quarter increase eg: 25rof on 18:1 top speed then 14:1 could be over 31rps again there is a "possible risk" of PE at higher speeds is all I am saying The reason for just using a decent "normal box" is Mr Monkey Nutz had a nightmare with his QD box build from scratch, tappet/nozzle losing pressure etc.... That was all

I was taking no gearbox and being built from scratch Whilst he buys up lots of bits n hope they all work together OK.... Was saying get a decent working one and just a small tweak here n there will do same job Yes I went way way overboard but everybody says high speed gears n high torque I'd way to go... Nope the link demonstrates it is not a must particularly if keeping fps to UK specs... Sounds daft but really can get great performance without all the extra high speed gears putting more stress on motor which isn't designed for higher gearing or pulling higher springs... High speed and stock gears do produce good results as link shows

If anybody is actually interested....... Just done some quick rough tests on 2 guns that I think are over volume'd 1st gun is deffo way over volume'd it should be hitting about 300+ but is hitting 240 !!! (this increases a fair bit to 280 with a longer barrel but this is too long so under volume'd) 2nd gun I strongly suspect the port is marginally incorrect - hitting nearly 300 but likely to hit 345 Also I think though over volume may push out heavier bb's better perhaps on gas guns/pistols this does not quite seem to be the case on AEG's - I'll explain...... 1st gun - seriously over volumed - barrel needs to be about 120mm longer I reckon by my maths (deffo seen higher fps on longer - but too long barrels so a little under expected fps) 240fps on 0.20's average So I thought I might see a slight increase or same on heavier bb's rather than usual drop (sounds reasonable if ya pushing out too much air for 0.2 but might be good for .25 or .30's) NOPE both guns did not show any close performance at all on using .25's or .30's 240 on 0.20's 215 on 0.25's 190 on 0.30's aprox 25 fps drop each 0.05g increase 2nd gun - I suspect needs a barrel maybe about 80mm longer for the current port position (haven't tried slightly longer barrels but I have a gut feeling the port is a bit out) 300 on 0.20's 270 on 0.25's 240 on 0.30's aprox 30fps drop for each 0.05g increase - but starting figure is higher if that means owt So the above crap kind of blows the idea that an over volume'd aeg will push out heavier bb's much much more effectively and maybe close to 0.20 performance...... (well it might if you whack in a heavier M120 spring on first gun but not tried that and probably won't atm) Also by studying the output figures it might come to light on the performance lost factor THIS IS JUST A ROUGH AS OLD BOOTS FIRST GUESS THOUGH...... Gun 1 has a barrel aprox 120mm too short I strongly reckon - take half of that 120 figure = 60 add 60 to 240 then that would equate to about the right amount expected 300fps sounds a lot but this is well n over volumed and the seals are or was very good (it is a CM FireHawk with a 120mm barrel and a port for about 250mm) Gun 2 has a barrel I think of about 80mm too short - take 50% of that 80 = 40 add 40 to 300 and I really think it should been hitting about 340+ fps (crappy SRC with a 275mm barrel and a port I cut on full cylinder that I reckon was more for a 363 aprox) I haven't tested this second gun a lot or with any other different barrel lengths But there ya go - 2 guns over volume'd and serious drop in performance from it (rough estimate though as to performance lost but I do think hop/tappet/nozzle is sealing good before you think its that) Also - Ithink my calculation of 12mm might be a litle too low I think the more accurate figure is about 15mm to 16mm as the O-ring on piston can sit quite far back on some Suffice to say correcting the AOE can vary - usually it is about 4mm-ish but recently had a box that needed 7mm - no $hitting 7 bloomin mm ffs !!! (in the end I put a 5mm spacer behind piston head - checking central alingment to piston & a thin sorbo/washer on cylinder head) So yeah - ignore the 12mm & go with say 15mm off the port measurement chaps - my bad

The general idea is to take a cylinder and within say 5 seconds have a fairly good idea what length barrel will work with this cylinder and its port location all without needing a calculator or a pen/pencil I think the above guidelines do work out very well considering for general factory standard 0.20g bb's bear in mind that the general norm also states that max max barrel on a normal 16 tooth setup is between 455 on large AK's but not much more as 500mm barrels are not really efficient on 16 teeth setups hence why SR25/L85 barrels and SVD go for the extra 3 teeth giving them an aprox 100mm extra barrel length of 550 yes some SVD's have a 590 or 610 and yes you can fit a 500 barrel to a standard 16 tooth setup box but many posts say this is not quite as fully effective/reliable as you are right on the limits I refer to my quote that the stroke is 50mm x 10 = 500mm but remember the fact that piston speed is only just starting move from 0mph and first few mm before compression begins (probably why most tech's - (I am not btw) state 455mm barrels for normal gearbox's is rule of thumb)

most cylinders are 23.8 - radius of 11.9mmm think the differences in between 6.08 & 6.01 barrels - even though most might stay @ 6.03 is more like 1% but i said 1.5% to cover most variables (if you said 6.02 to 6.08 then 1% difference in diameter or 0.5% in radius before we start the maths) However the difference in barrel and even in standard & bore up cylinder and there 0.5% or 1% or wtf 1.5% is really very very little in relation to an incorrect ported cylinder being used eg: a 3/4 cylinder (363mm barrel type of cylinder) used with say a 225mm barrel = massive over volume of air and a drop in fps for user Not all air can be full expelled anyway eg: silent piston/cylinder heads also even though the volume of air is measured up to port for the first few mm there is next to no compression generated much like even with max stroke of piston - the first few mm's when piston is released the speed of the piston moving is very very little as it gathers momentum and starts to become effective compressing air in cylinder Furthermore - the max amount of stroke on a normal cylinder after AOE is really more like 50mm this figure is derived from the first tooth on sector gear aligned on piston in 12 o'clock position then 16 teeth later...... 16 x 3mm pitch on the teeth = 48mm add on another half a tooth where the gear drives on a tiny bit further and slips to release piston = 50mm AOE is done but normally AOE is a max of 4 to 5mm required so that would equate to 55mm on non AOE but is widely accepted that AOE should be performed in AEG's the above rough calculation also works on L85/SR25/SVD AEG's with 19 tooth pistons as well Normal Cylinder 71mm - has max stroke after AOE of 50mm SR25/L85 has a 82mm - has max stroke after AOE of 59mm (3 teeth more) but lets say 60mm which kind of equates again to a 455 - 500 absolute max on standard cylinders and I guess 550 to 600 on the few longer cylinder AEG's (unless you are using a 15 tooth piston & spacer in ya L85) for normal 0.20g bb's the accepted 1.5 to 1.6 barrel/cylinder ratio applies on heavier bb's like I said this is thought to need be higher due to a heavier mass being propelled down barrel But - unless I am mistaken with barrel differences being like 1.5% different aprox and even with a bore up kit it can't change that inner volume that much either..... Cylinders have an external diameter of 1 inch or 25.4mm - or won't fit inside the box easily 25.4mm - 23.8mm internal leaves a wall of 0.8mm..... can't see a bore up having a much bigger internal diameter more than say 24.2mm or it wouldn't be very strong (can't measure as I don't have a bore up cylinder myself but if the above figure is correct-ish then that is just 1% increase diameter max)

lol- no worries - it is normally me doing that as it is what I do best (or majored in if we talking in US english)

Oi - do you two wanna flirt somewhere else or something jeeeez thought there was gonna be some new findings/results And I thought I was the main thread derailer or hijacker

in that case maybe get a cyma gearbox or just use stock gears - what !!! yes stock gears 18:1 with shs high speed all rewired with deans & a basic fet will greatly improve rof & response You need to crack open the box and check shims/regrease/ensure seals are good fit o-ring nozzle most of all you MUST check/do Angle Of Engagement unless you like piston's initial tooth snapped off Tiny slits near back or port quite far back for 455mm barrel I reckon Check box/seals work fine all fps looking good first... Then add shs hi speed - considerable increase on its own pop in fet on old stock wiring at trigger wires - new motor & battery wire on 16awg with deans Now test her on stock gears..... 7.4v lipo 25c = 19 to 20 rps 9.9v life battery 25 to 26 11.1v lipo battery 30 to 31rps Pretty impressive for old stock gears- however watch yourself on 11.1v lipo's & approaching 30+ If your piston is quite heavy/weighty on a stock m100 spring it won't return quite as quick as a light piston if this happens at higher speed PE or Pre Engagement can take place - on all metal gears on piston There will be no weak point to break and one hell of a BANG can happen if everything is all metal Reason of the PE warning is coz if you run with M100 spring or less it is more likely to happen People in US can use M110 - M120+ which will return heavier pistons faster & avoid PE When peeps build very high speed setups they get the weight right down to 10gms by swiss cheese oh high rof & DSG's All metal teeth, piston bearings etc.., add extra weight from 20gms to 31gms or you could get a complete piston with 1 metal tooth at about 16gms without swiss cheese Or you may need to run a higher spring - taking you over 350 but short stroke it to bring you back down But as long as you don't go mad and stick to 20 to 25rps then PE should not be a possible worry People think you gotta have high speed gears for higher rof - you don't You do need a higher torque motor to turn higher speed gears or a stronger spring -M130 on DMR's say But not all torque motors turn quickly - some are not much faster than stock but are much more powerful Some torque's are quite quick - but not all of them. SHS High Speed is a bloody quick impressive cheap motor especially when dean/fet/16awg is done Then you really unleash the potential of it and will turn as quickly as you can supply the juice to it People say torque is better - you are using a stock or lower than stock spring and stock 18:1 gears the motor is not having to do any extra strain except run quicker which it will You could just use deans but you should use thicker 16awg coz the stock motor wire will get very warm AND fit a basic mosfet to avoid contacts arcing/burning out You don't need an Active Braking mosfet - it won't double fire on stock gears and the stronger neodym high speed motor will come to rest very quickly anyway once power is cut - stock motor's (ferrite) will roll on a bit but neodym won't Get a half decent cheap box - say £40 check it works reasonable ok - probably too hot with a m120 spring in there Then buy a m100 or m95 spring, piston o-ring, o-ring nozzle, some cheapo self adhesive washers to do AOE PTFE tape to seal cylinder head, shims grease etc...... - £10 to say £15 Maybe better double o-ring cylinder head, steel/ali cylinder instead of brass type if you want it running best seals (imho - perhaps lose piston bearing it adds weight to piston and if not installed with loctite they often come undone use a lighter plastic spacer/bushing if buying a new piston head but stock might be ok but fit a bearing spring guide) Make sure all bits turn and slide real smooth and work all ok... Test it all out - job done........ (buy a load of various parts to build a box from scratch and they may not all fit/work correctly together straight away) Do the wiring & mosfet once the box is running nice and quiet with good seals etc.. like I said I am NOT an expert - far far from it I am still learning (and breaking stuff though not so much as I was at first) However I have read/researched a lot of stuff and one of the best guides on what you seek is here: http://www.airsoftsociety.com/forums/f10/legacys-guide-building-high-speed-aeg-87504/ It has saved me probably about 12 to 24 months in major headaches & busted boxes and mega mega kudos to the guy for putting together such a comprehensive guide all broken down in various stages of tuning and what you need to do to obtain an increased rate of fire Final thing - insane rof & DSG's etc... - just means in general ya box will crap out quicker it is like a car - faster you drive it at higher speeds in your box more heat/wear will occur the more miles or shots the quicker your car/box will need servicing With that "general" common sense bit out of way - do the stuff above without going too nutz keep the volts low and she will perform well for longer plus 7.4v lipo's should be cheaper/smaller and you will see a vast improvement over a stock gun without needing to spend out too much

if you buy the madbull hop the tracer bit is still extra - usually so read the small print on exactly what you are buying..... Also once the led's are wired in it usually is usually on all time unless you wire in a switch (could wire into trigger but you'd want it on for a little while to illuminate the tracer bb's I guess)

get box sorted - firing well good seals etc... (even standard parts if fitted and running well will bring good improvements) then when setup well you can just wire in a mosfet without needing to open box back up on a v3 and see the improved rof & response. Out of interest what rate are you seeking coz tbh a high rof is great but if you want it to last longer then run on sensible volts and still get great rof on a 7.4v

a member on the UKARA database simplifies sales - end of It means that they are OVER 18 - not some spotty schoolkid using daddies paypal They have skirmished at a reputable site for a few times - so have "briefly" demonstrated they once were mature & responsible with an airsoft weapon (I may be complete idiot now but I did demonstrate some of these properties) So it simplifies sales and shows that they were once at least a regular skirmisher for a little while AND 18+ It helps to prevent very easy unregulated sales in UK - does NOT eliminate it though but helps to reduce easy access by people not meeting the ukara requirements..... There are ways but I will not enter into any discussions on this matter But if a person really wanted there are a number of ways around this - and repainting an IF or obtaining a RIF is f*ck all compared to some other stuff I could mention Thankfully - even if it is a bit ott, sellers prefer a buyer to registered on the ukara database - not much to ask to be fair

dunno how good but don't think you can get them much cheaper: http://www.tinywind.com/dragon-fluorescent-full-auto-tracer-illuminator-unit-14mm-coyote-brown-p-13202.html http://www.tinywind.com/auto-tracer-silencer-round-type-14mm-p-11224.html

Dunno if you are putting any gears of what type in there but that length barrel 6.01 might be too hot & too tight - jamming if less that brill ammo used Could always just buy a cheap cyma 028 box and a few little tweaks + ya motor & fet etc.... (o-ring nozzle, check seal on piston/cylinder, AOE, time doing the shimming - be a cracking little box) then add fet + deans + motor to improve rof & response - 6.03 barrel probably best all round option

Sounds brilliantly thought out and defending the cows must have been "a mooooo sing" (soz I'll get me coat) Kudos to site chrono/stickers/number players/safety briefings shame I'm in Surrey but sounds very well done (been going a while coz I'm sure I stumbled across the name/site whilst browsing)

All bb's will deviate in wind - many use .25's .28' even .30's in their AEG loads to choose from at 0.20's not so many at other weights - Blasters are supposed to be good BAW but they don't do .28's .20's are cheap n cheerful for the more trigger happy player but as you found can go anywhere in slight wind Battery - you got a LIFE 9.9v battery which offers a great in between power balance of 7.4v & 11.1v LiPo's If you are happy get another battery like what you already have If you wish try an AK - still popular but a good airsoft weapon, just coz something is used by many doesn't make it bad

Battery - get 2 medium's say 1600mah & change at lunchtime (7.4v lipo's are perhaps best but I also use older nimah's now n then) The G&G you listed is great deal - has top but no side/ bottom rails as standard - battery up front other versions are rear wired.... Other option is a Raider - wtf they didn't do this a limited edition I'll never know as it has gotta be their #1 seller Short version = 233mm barrel Long version = 360mm barrel aprox only difference is barrel length - suppose you could say Long is better value as you get more gun/barrel for same price but if you play cqb then Short might be better suited perhaps CM18 - 275 barrel falls nicely in between short/long raider but is £150-£155 & comes with 120 mag instead of 300 hi-cap but looks sexy as hell and rails galore like Raider FireHawk - small noisy bad ass that turns heads all the time but not as good as they used to be - battery in stock tube is a pain The above models are all great guns - maybe a Raider is #1 selling starter gun as its cheap, light ABS/Polymer but sturdy rails for all ya bits n bobs - very very popular - common as hell if you like but it is bloody good gun for money If you want to be different and not follow the M4 herd then look at Cyma AK's but I like M4's as they are more ergonomic for me (AK's do have some stuff going for them - bigger mag/longer barrel - they can show up many M4's) Shame G&G never did a Raider with 275-300 barrel and they should of done a limited Raider with 280 barrel or a CM18 metal CM16 Carbine's are very good also - but I do not own one (yet) as I got other SRC & ICS models Battery up front on Carbine's abnd usually come in the long 363mm barrel but they do a lite version with 275/300 barrel but no rails as standard on carbine Phew there is the GC26 one but I think that is not as good as other models I listed - has a plastic flip sight that I think would break easily if dropped - yet the limited edition one is metal receiver but still plastic sight - jeez (front wired btw) If its your first gun and getting 2-toned then either your GC16 or a slightly cheaper Raider with its rails galore They are all built the same - very well inside.... No I don't work for G&G - I wish. But I'll put it this way..... I have bought/owned more G&G's than SRC or ICS M4's (and I bought some crap at first from " BB " sites and seriously regretted wasting my money) If you do buy cheaper crappier guns then that is fine - you will just be an easier target for others to shoot you Think that should cover most G&G models up to about £150, there a few other makes/models but that is my take on the common as muck Ford Transit van workhorses of Airsoft starter guns

Yeah I do get a bit of TOUT on mine from time to time can be a real fussy f*cker to be lined up and true to find a sweet spot (then she behaves very well it seems) not got a gas blowback only ebb R85 or gas non blowback pistols but can't say I've noticed any of them being ultra fussy

Just a week would be perfect to win last week's lottery = MY OWN AIRSOFT ARMY Seriously the maths on ratio does work BUT - for "general" chrono/airsoft setup's eg: this is the maths that in effect gives you the 1.5~1.6 ratio's for the "normal" 0.20's and maybe 0.25's All this bollox can really change when using heavier 0.30's and will be off for say DMR's using .36's The heavier bb's will need a great ratio of 1.8 to 2.0 perhaps to shift the heavier mass of bb correctly Airsoft Ed made a post about this over volume and there are many articles saying heavier bb's need higher volume ratio As it stands the basic quick check does work I reckon - for 0.20's at the chrono and how most stuff is shipped to run with However for those players seeking better performance with slightly heavier bb's the number 12 will not work for them These heavier bb's or higher volumes may need a larger number subtracted - eg: 16 instead of 12mm (42mm - 16 = 26 or 260 barrel with higher volume to push out heavier bb's - but I am guessing this bit atm coz I dunno) Heck I'm no expert mofo but just the numbers adding up or correlating on the 1.5/1.6 ratio and thought I'd inform you chaps and gear check thingy is coz I hate counting tiny gears and all that crap multiply this n that divide by wtf etc... I'm throwing this out there and if anybody looks into it and gives us some feedback we might all be able to arrive at a good all round quick ratio checker for normal bb's AND if we get some feedback adapt change the magic number 12 according to what bb's people use and we may be able to perfect it more for all weights of bb's (might be increase 12mm by 1.5 or 2mm for each .05g increment etc... but am open to any feedback like I said)

I was determined to see if I could post without my usual G&G G&G G&G G&G G&G G&G G&G G&G G&G G&G....... but I can't take it no more - G&G, budget (maybe long & short M4 types so you got spare) or G&G higher end Top Tech yup they may be like the Fords of airsoft but they do hold up well indeed

I'm all for doing stuff properly when it has to be but if there is an easier simpler method that works I'll deffo use that but sod doing an Open University Course just to figure out some stuff in my toy gun (I get bored at work sometimes and kept doing all these maths and wtf - that simple crap works as well)