Border Force seized RIF

[Rob_Burgess]

Hello all, received a letter from border force. Would appear mine is one that’s been caught in red tape and has subsequently been ‘seized’. Import from Hong Kong.
The letter states I can appeal this in writing and by seeking my own legal representation, however other than simply stating that yes it is a RIF and I intend to use it for Airsoft purposes I’m not entirely sure what they’re asking for. 
I appreciate putting a UKARA on the box, however that doesn’t really seem to mean anything. 
if anyone has had a similar issue and happy to advise it would be much appreciated. 

[JimFromHorsham]

Seized under what grounds ? 
 

Do you have a UKARA ? 

[Rob_Burgess]

7 minutes ago, JimFromHorsham said:

Seized under what grounds ? 
 

Do you have a UKARA ? 

Hello, yes I do have UKARA and did request that the sender put this on the packaging. However unknown if this was completed. 

This is the correspondence from them. 

[Tommikka]

34 minutes ago, Rob_Burgess said:

Hello, yes I do have UKARA and did request that the sender put this on the packaging. However unknown if this was completed. 

This is the correspondence from them…….

 

Go through the points one by one.  It’s probably the VCRA skirmisher defence, so check through all the points that they have referenced, reply covering them complete with your UKARA details (check they match the address in case

of any changes and/or typos) and be prepared to have it decided in court

 

 

VCRA Section 36.7

It is a RIF

You have a defence with UKARA membership 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36

 

 

VCRA Section 39.7

 

Refers to VCRA 39.6 and customs and excise act section 1

39.6 is with regard to the specifications of an IF

(Eg If you didn’t have a VCRA RIF defence then you could have import an IF at >50% defined bright colours etc.

(perhaps it has been checked to be overpowered for the UK, but the section references IFs)

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/39

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/2/section/1

 

 

The other points refer to the various pieces of legislation.  You should look them up but the key points will be:

 

1)VCRA RIF defence - your UKARA membership, plus be prepared to document your intention to continue to play airsoft skirmishing at insured sites

 

2)IF non compliance - should be covered by your RUF defence 

 

3)Sender may not have correctly declared contents

Be prepared to say to the court “Oh dear, that was very silly of them. I’m a responsible player and had intended to conduct a fully legal and open import, giving my UKARA details to the retailer 

 

4)They have sent a non compliant RIF overpowered for the UK (only a guess on potential reasons)

If so you’re either screwed or can go for the “It should have been supplied with UK compliant settings which can be arranged via x tech support in the UK

[EDcase]

Bad luck mate 😬

 

It seems to me that they've seized it in error because it should be completely legal.

As Tommikka said, write a letter stating that it is legal under VCRA Section 36 (add any other relevant sections you can find) and provide your UKARA.

 

Hope it gets sorted 

[Rob_Burgess]

27 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Go through the points one by one.  It’s probably the VCRA skirmisher defence, so check through all the points that they have referenced, reply covering them complete with your UKARA details (check they match the address in case

of any changes and/or typos) and be prepared to have it decided in court

 

 

 

VCRA Section 36.7

It is a RIF

You have a defence with UKARA membership 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36

 

 

VCRA Section 39.7

 

Refers to VCRA 39.6 and customs and excise act section 1

39.6 is with regard to the specifications of an IF

(Eg If you didn’t have a VCRA RIF defence then you could have import an IF at >50% defined bright colours etc.

(perhaps it has been checked to be overpowered for the UK, but the section references IFs)

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/39

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/2/section/1

 

 

The other points refer to the various pieces of legislation.  You should look them up but the key points will be:

 

1)VCRA RIF defence - your UKARA membership, plus be prepared to document your intention to continue to play airsoft skirmishing at insured sites

 

2)IF non compliance - should be covered by your RUF defence 

 

3)Sender may not have correctly declared contents

Be prepared to say to the court “Oh dear, that was very silly of them. I’m a responsible player and had intended to conduct a fully legal and open import, giving my UKARA details to the retailer 

 

4)They have sent a non compliant RIF overpowered for the UK (only a guess on potential reasons)

If so you’re either screwed or can go for the “It should have been supplied with UK compliant settings which can be arranged via x tech support in the UK

Wow, the Airsoft community is not dead. I did not expect this sort of reply. All I can say is thank you and I’ll give it a bloody good go and see what happens! 

1 minute ago, EDcase said:

Bad luck mate 😬

 

It seems to me that they've seized it in error because it should be completely legal.

As Tommikka said, write a letter stating that it is legal under VCRA Section 36 (add any other relevant sections you can find) and provide your UKARA.

 

Hope it gets sorted 

Luck of the draw, “you payed your money and takes your chance”. I can’t be too bitter, all part of learning, see what happens!

[EDcase]

17 minutes ago, Rob_Burgess said:

Luck of the draw, “you payed your money and takes your chance”.

But it shouldn't be.

Unfortunately the rules are so badly written even border force get confused sometimes.

[swalker901]

I'm interested in this, as I have an order on the way from Action in Taiwan (was sent on Monday this week), and hoping no issues as mentioned with border force! 

 

I also had the seller add my UKARA number to the labels to help....but maybe won't help!

 

Hope yours gets sorted!

[Krisz]

On 29/11/2024 at 15:07, swalker901 said:

I'm interested in this, as I have an order on the way from Action in Taiwan (was sent on Monday this week), and hoping no issues as mentioned with border force! 

 

I also had the seller add my UKARA number to the labels to help....but maybe won't help!

 

Hope yours gets sorted!

I think it's more about the paper work from the seller's side than anything else. I bought at least a few guns from HK and never had an issue like this.

Edited November 30 by Krisz

[EDcase]

Hey Rob,  Just curious which shop you bought from?

[novioman]

I had an air pistol seized. It was common practice by many to buy airguns from Europe at the time, they were cheaper and could be delivered to your door. I was a firearms club member and had a UKARA membership. BF though, declared it a RIF. Luckily as it was weeks until I heard anything, I and the store in Portugal thought it was lost and they had refunded me. 
I found Border Force totally useless to deal with. I had 3 visits from the police, they kept on visiting as they weren’t recording the information I gave them. In the end complained to the Chief Constable who put a local D.I on the case and I ended up getting a letter of apology from the police and no black mark against my name. 
Border Force are supposed to assign a member of staff to deal with you personally, they didn’t. You only get one phone number and they pass messages to the office that seized the item apparently.

I contacted my local MP and made her aware that the airgun was classed as a low powered firearm under the 1968 act, and as such could not be a RIF. I made her aware that it was perfectly legal, and my legal status. 
Her office made contact with BF and insisted that the manager of the seizing office contact me. He did, very, very begrudgingly, he confirmed it was a .177 air pistol but added that BF were completely entitled to class any gun as a RIF, and did not recognise my UKARA membership as a entitlement to import. 
The pistol was destroyed, despite my request for them to return it to the sender.

As I documented the whole case on the airgun forum I had a number of people contact me for advice. BF were seizing target pistols even spring air rifles and classing them as RIF’s.

For me at the time,( I don’t know if it’s now improved), Border Force were a complete law unto themselves, classing any gun they stopped as a RIF, and totally ignoring the persons right to buy through proper defences.

I wish you well, keep fighting them, but if it ends up in court it can be very expensive, win or loose.

[mightyjebus]

I've been through this before. You will need to contact the officer mentioned in the letter and provide your UKARA details, the Public Liability Certificate of the UKARA site and they will also want to see how much you paid for the item which is sometimes different from the invoice attached to the front of the parcel.

Edited November 29 by mightyjebus

[Jez_Armstrong]

I'll send this link to a friend of mine who had this a few weeks back and ask what he did, I'm sure me managed to get a phone number 

[Asomodai]

I have mentioned a few times before. The average grunt on the ground does not know what a UKARA number is. They only check up to 10% of all parcels that come through. Your parcel was one of those picked to be searched and they saw it was gunshaped and set it aside. UKARA does not mean goods wont be seized, just that you can get it unseized after the fact. 

 

Quote your UKARA number to the person dealing with your case and ask them to check the Database. It will take sometime, but keep chasing up and you will get your RIF. Screenshot you asking to put UKARA number on the parcel in your correspondence to the retailer (Just in case they didn't do it).

 

Don't let up though as they may end up destroying it if you are not fast enough. 

Edited November 29 by Asomodai

[Rob_Burgess]

3 hours ago, EDcase said:

You’re all fantastic chaps, I’m on nights now until Monday, (nothing would happen in that time anyway) and will be aiming to find some form of common sense within BF from Monday onwards. 
court in this instance is the last thing I have time/can be arsed with and have the spare cash for. 
is it possible to just simply request that they return to sender? Highly unlikely I know due to it now being seized and in their custody. I purchased from boomarms, I’ve done business with them in the past and never had an issue, simply just an instance of poor luck. 
Again, thank you all👍🏻

[novioman]

10 minutes ago, Rob_Burgess said:

3 hours ago, EDcase said:

You’re all fantastic chaps, I’m on nights now until Monday, (nothing would happen in that time anyway) and will be aiming to find some form of common sense within BF from Monday onwards. 
court in this instance is the last thing I have time/can be arsed with and have the spare cash for. 
is it possible to just simply request that they return to sender? Highly unlikely I know due to it now being seized and in their custody. I purchased from boomarms, I’ve done business with them in the past and never had an issue, simply just an instance of poor luck. 
Again, thank you all👍🏻

I would contact boomarms and check they included your UKARA number on the declaration, they may have even photographed it before posting. 

[Galvatron]

3 hours ago, Rob_Burgess said:

 is it possible to just simply request that they return to sender? Highly unlikely I know due to it now being seized and in their custody.

 

Possible, sure, but I don't think it's even remotely probable that they will do it. As they see it, you've tried to import a prohibited/restricted item so having them return it to the sender to not only costs them money and paperwork, it defeats the purpose of disrupting the supply of prohibited/restricted goods as you can always try and import it again or have someone do it on your behalf.

 

I agree with the advice given that you need to be quick and persistent in getting back to Border Force to clarify that you have a defence for a RIF and that you disclosed this to the sender.

 

 

 

[ak2m4]

Damn bad luck, as a few people have said keep on them, it's all perfectly legit.  Be sure to let us all know how it goes.

[Asomodai]

14 hours ago, Galvatron said:

 

Possible, sure, but I don't think it's even remotely probable that they will do it. As they see it, you've tried to import a prohibited/restricted item so having them return it to the sender to not only costs them money and paperwork, it defeats the purpose of disrupting the supply of prohibited/restricted goods as you can always try and import it again or have someone do it on your behalf.

 

I agree with the advice given that you need to be quick and persistent in getting back to Border Force to clarify that you have a defence for a RIF and that you disclosed this to the sender.

 

 

 

 

They will never return something to the country of origin if they feel it is breaking the rules, they will destroy instead.

 

Remember the default legal position is that it is illegal to import RIFS. Only our defense means that it's "Allowed". 

[Galvatron]

3 hours ago, Asomodai said:

 

They will never return something to the country of origin if they feel it is breaking the rules, they will destroy instead.

 

Remember the default legal position is that it is illegal to import RIFS. Only our defense means that it's "Allowed". 

 

I haven't forgotten.

 

My point was that returning prohibited goods goes against disrupting the supply of them to the UK. The OP asked if it was possible to make the request, not if it was possible that they'd return them.

 

I didn't think it was necessary to point out the notice of prohibited goods being destroyed as it's common knowledge that any prohibited goods are destroyed when a compelling defence isn't given.

Edited November 30 by Galvatron

[Neptune]

I've been through this several times, the last one was just last week. You've already been given the advice you need, but I thought I would add to this thread...

 

They can absolutely seize it under Section 36 of VCR Act: "(7) A realistic imitation firearm brought into Great Britain shall be liable to forfeiture under the customs and excise Acts."

 

The defences in Section 37 apply when you are charged with an offence, which Border Force aren't doing. In reality they will release it to you provided you have a defence, at least they have in all of my seizures going back 10+ years.

 

The letter does cover it, but if it isn't clear, you want "Restoration". Write to them at the address provided, make sure your name and address is on the letter, provide them with your defence, IE, UKARA number and the site you play at. They have access to UKARA, which makes me think maybe it wasn't on the box, or wasn't clear. I would also advise to add your email on it to and ask them to contact you that way if there are any further issues, you don't want to be going back and forth by post. You also have to provide an invoice or receipt of the goods, again this should have your name and address on.

 

Failing that, Border Force do take bribes; Send them a box of Ferraro Rochettes and all your problems will be solved.

 

Good luck.

[Rogerborg]

On 01/12/2024 at 21:39, Neptune said:

In reality they will release it to you provided you have a defence, at least they have in all of my seizures going back 10+ years.

 

De jure, it's a defence to the offence, not a licence to import. Although they do - de facto - choose to treat it as though it were.  That's tucked away in the small print of a document (IIRC) relating to ferries from Ireland.

[Tommikka]

On 01/12/2024 at 21:39, Neptune said:

 

 

 

 

Failing that, Border Force do take bribes; Send them a box of Ferraro Rochettes and all your problems will be solved.

 

Ferrero Rocher works with the Foreign & Commonwealth office (Ambassador, you are spoiling us)

For Border Force it’s Toblerone - there’s a clue in the duty free shop 

 

 

[Rob_Burgess]

Well gentlemen, what a painless process that was. A week after making contact with BF via email and requesting to speak directly with the officer associated with my case, my GHK Glock 17 Gen 5 has arrived. 
 

Can’t thank all of you enough for your sound advise, it’s been very much appreciated and will endeavor to help anyone in the future as you have all helped me👌🏻

[Jez_Armstrong]

Funnily enough i had two VFC Gen 5's arrive too 😛