Zero advice

[Jo1906]

Hey all, 

 so I have this SA H02 and a shiny knock off holo sight. I’ve been trying to zero the rifle “the  normal way” but not having much luck. The adjustment dial on the sight itself doesn’t click like the real thing, but I’ve put in a lot of vertical adjustments but it still shoots low. 

 

I’m not sure whether I need to be fiddling with the hop up rather than the actual sight..has anyone else got some advice on this please? 

[JimFromHorsham]

Zero to what range ? 20mtrs should be achievable after that just consider it a window to watch your BB’s through .

[Jo1906]

I was at 25m range. Seems impossible to get consistent groupings?

[JimFromHorsham]

Just now, Jo1906 said:

I was at 25m range. Seems impossible to get consistent groupings?

in my experience that’s airsoft and plastic balls not the optics . 

[Cannonfodder]

If the hop up is set correctly then I wouldn't go messing with it.

 

As Jim posted, that sounds about right for slinging very light plastic balls down what is essentially an electrical powered musket.

 

What weight bbs are you using?

 

[JimFromHorsham]

Does the rifle group without optics ? 

 

as above , set your hop for the heaviest bb you can lift , work out where your groups open up , fit optics and set the zero a bit before that range .

 

so if it groups say .28bb at 30mtrs , I’d probably set the optic up for 20mtrs . 
 

but it’s airsoft , wind , bushes and airsoft mean most of it is moot .

Edited September 30, 2023 by JimFromHorsham

[MrTea]

Both my SOTAC and Holy Warrior XPS3 replicas have adjustable zero. It takes quite a lot of winding (they don't click either) of the adjustment knobs/screws to get it where I need it but it does work. I'd guess the 'cheap' replicas have the adjustment features there but possibly don't work? I adjust my zero indoors where there's no wind or anything effecting the BB flight but as many others have said; airsoft isn't an exact science.

Edited September 30, 2023 by MrTea

[C-Diddy]

Jim's nailed it. Airsoft ballistics have too many variables affecting them to zero an optic effectively.

 

Just get your hop set for your choice BB weight so that you have a nice, flat trajectory with a little lift at the end. Set up a 20/25m target and with the same POA drop 5 rounds down, then adjust your optic to match the POI and leave the hop well alone. As noted, heavier BBs will give more consistent results. 

 

Apologies if this is a patronisingly noddy explanation that you already know. 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

It's 100% the sight. I gently disagree, I think you can zero optics to airsoft guns effectively provided you have the right expectations. I + others had a little zero sesh not so long ago and we were pinging a dumbell plate (so a bit smaller than a dinner plate) 20-25m (based on google maps) very consistently. Yes, wind effects things but I think having to walk the bb onto target is a bit of a low bar to set yourself, I think you want to do as much as you reasonably can to get the first shot(s) accuracy.  Obviously an optic is not going to make up for an inconsistent gun. But if the gun is consistent then it is the optic. I have used many a cheap optic in my time and its not a matter of "holding zero" but seemingly can't be zero'd at all.  If they work for other people great there are no prizes here but I have a much better time with budget, "real steel" optics - vortex, holosun and so forth. The most I've paid for a single optic I think was £130. Whilst it's dead now (so old the battery corroded and messed it all up) I did have one of these which is well priced and worked well. I remember spending the time to get it dialed in and having a "yes, this is how it's supposed to be" moment: https://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/vector-optics-tempest-1x35-four-reticle-dot-sight

Edited September 30, 2023 by GeorgePlaysAirsoft

[Cannonfodder]

Having reread the thread I think I may have got the wrong end of the stick.

 

Without adjusting the sight is the point of impact in roughly the same place in relation to the point of aim? If so then that's the sight. If not then it's something else

 

Also what size grouping are you expecting?

[Jo1906]

So it’s on 0.25s and the groupings are all over the shop with and without the fake eotech thing with a consistent POA.

I’m expecting to get 30-50mm tight groups at that distance to be honest, but having said that maybe I’m expecting too much from the BB gun? 

[Cannonfodder]

That definitely sounds like the problem isn't the sight. How big are the groupings you're getting at the moment?

 

How new is the gun? If it's new then it might be a case of simply cleaning the barrel as they often come with loads of grease and gunk in  them

Edited September 30, 2023 by Cannonfodder

[JimFromHorsham]

1 hour ago, Jo1906 said:

So it’s on 0.25s and the groupings are all over the shop with and without the fake eotech thing with a consistent POA.

I’m expecting to get 30-50mm tight groups at that distance to be honest, but having said that maybe I’m expecting too much from the BB gun? 

sadly you are expecting too much if you want those size groupings at 25mtrs from a standard AEG & holosight . 
 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by JimFromHorsham

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Jo1906 said:

groupings are all over the shop

 

How big is this shop?

 

If you're getting head sized at 25m, and airsofter sized at 50m, you'll be competitive with 90% of players out there.

 

As above, a barrel and hop rubber clean never goes amiss.  Maple Leaf rubbers and Omega nubs are a decent shout for any gun, or you can work on the hop-unit tension, and shimming the barrel if you're really determined.

[Impulse]

17 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

If you're getting head sized at 25m, and airsofter sized at 50m, you'll be competitive with 90% of players out there.

 

This. The number of people I've seen with "my AEG can shoot 70m" then I watch them fail to hit a target accurately at 50m... If you can get accurate 50m, you'll be set

[C-Diddy]

Have a look at some of the AATV clips on YouTube for an idea on what to expect on group sizes with different weight BBs. 

Just now, Impulse said:

 

This. The number of people I've seen with "my AEG can shoot 70m" then I watch them fail to hit a target accurately at 50m... If you can get accurate 50m, you'll be set

Exactly. It's people not knowing the difference between maximum effective range and maximum range. Also, 70 airsoft metres is usually between 40 and 50 actual metres. 

[JimFromHorsham]

7 minutes ago, Impulse said:

 

This. The number of people I've seen with "my AEG can shoot 70m" then I watch them fail to hit a target accurately at 50m... If you can get accurate 50m, you'll be set

yeah ,quoted airsoft meters is usually twice real meters in my experience 😂 

[SSPKali]

30-50mm groupings at 25m? 

My MWS shooting 0.32g BBs makes a ~30mm grouping at 10m and is considered a pretty accurate and consistent RIF. Certainly able to make head&shoulders shots at 45m (verified) and upper body shots further than that if the target has the decency to stand still 😁

 

I have the red dot pretty much spot on for 15-30m (closer the person is a much bigger target and can use reflexive shooting and further is a bit of a crap shoot with wind / leaves / walking targets!

 

Getting that level of grouping at 25m without it being an air gun with rifled barrel and lead pellets? Yeah....no.

[C-Diddy]

1 hour ago, SSPKali said:

30-50mm groupings at 25m?

 

Getting that level of grouping at 25m without it being an air gun with rifled barrel and lead pellets? Yeah....no.

IIRC a 50mm or smaller grouping of 5 shots on the 25m range was the pass mark for the basic weapon handling course

[Dan Robinson]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

If you're getting head sized at 25m, and airsofter sized at 50m, you'll be competitive with 90% of players out there.

 

I'm a happy bunny when my L85 and the boy's Rando Long Specna hit the (I think) A3 sized 30m target reliably with their 4x sights.  The other pews in the collection recently can hit it, but probably a quarter of the time by comparison. 

 

 

As said earlier, we're firing battery powered muskets.   Not rifles 

[JimFromHorsham]

In the centre ( around the black dot ) was a 10 shot zero at 40mtrs with a .177 air rifle .

 

 

all the bb strikes was a 40mtr zero with this 😛

 

[DerDer]

That lambda defence sure is something.

[TheFull9]

I've mostly never bothered with adjusting airsoft optics tbh.  The target is either close enough that I just use instinctive aiming, or it's far enough that an airsoft gun can't print any sort of useful group at said range in order to zero.  A very coarse adjustment to get the wide area of spray at 50m+ roughly kinda midde-ish within the actual glass window (optic type dependant) is all I bother with and you can often do that just pre game while making any necessary hop adjustment for the bbs you've got that day.  Then once in game you simply put the baddie in the middle of the glass, spray, and pray.

 

When I have zero'd a RIF it was at around 10m, 15 max, as I only have the TM bb catcher that's got a target area roughly 9-10" square.  The one time I used it to zero (was shooting a KWA GBB) I had to be very much sub 15m in order to shoot groups that were actually small enough to clearly define a mean point of impact and then be able to make any sort of useful sight adjustment.

[Mad dog 49]

On 30/09/2023 at 17:52, C-Diddy said:

It's people not knowing the difference between maximum effective range and maximum range. Also, 70 airsoft metres is usually between 40 and 50 actual metres. 

Absolutely this. My Scout will send a bb (0.48g) out to 90-95m on a calm day with no rain, I'm a pretty decent shot without being a bragger but at that distance I'm hitting some part of what I'm aiming at 2 in 10 shots or so. Spherical plastic blobs, no matter how well made or polished or out of what super expensive, upgraded to death electric peashooter are never going to be accurate like a ballistic round out of a rifled barrel. Whatever anyone tells you about their heroic exploits in taking headshots repeatedly at 70m, most airsoft engagements for AEGs happen at less than 30m, if you can hit a man sized target at 30m, that's good enough for the job in hand.