Battery life...

[gavinkempsell]

Hi all, I'm a total newbie to airsoft & attending my first skirmish next week, I'm 100% certain I'm going to be over prepared, PLCE, extra mags, a couple of speed loaders too many bb's etc.

 

I'm a chunk so my webbing has more pouches than I'm sure I'll need but my question is... how many 7.4 Lipo's should I bring for an average days playing?

 

As most AEG owners I've an ample supply of batteries for my Rif's and I'll charge & bring a good few but realistically how many should I carry at any time?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Colin Allen]

That depends on the battery capacity (mAh) and how trigger happy you are.

 

Two 1300mAh batteries should easily get you through the day.

[RostokMcSpoons]

It's not the voltage that decides how many batteries you'll need, it's a combination of how you play (carefully chosen single shots Vs bullet-hose suppression), and the mAH (milli amp hours rating)

 

(Plus a few other contributory factors like how your gun is set up, the temperature, whether you feel lucky, punk... that sort of thing)

 

If you shoot on semi auto carefully, you should get through a whole day on one decently large battery (3000 mAH).

 

If you go hog-wild on the fun switch and trigger, and your batteries are only little 1400mAH sticks, then you might get through three or even four.

 

Edit:  Colin seems a bit more optimistic than me.  I'm basing my reply on the fact I can burn through my 3000mAH Titan Li-ion battery by mid afternoon.  I shoot a lot when I'm playing with my AEGs

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Dan Robinson]

I usually have a pair of 1300mah batteries see me through a day of mixed semi/full auto. 

 

I've found that using burst mode fire seems to chomp through more bbs and mahs than straight auto. 

 

I also take a spare too.... Just incase.  Like the other week when the boy managed to break a wire on one. 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Depends on the type of game.  I use a 1000mah over a whole weekend milsim/filmsim.  

 

CQB sees a 1500mah minimum in the rif and a spare in the pouch.  

 

I have a 2400mah for my support gun.  

 

I've never had to change a battery mid game.

[Duff Beer]

All things being equal (wiring, temperature, play style) the choice of motor you’re using will affect the battery life hugely too.  This video on YouTube goes through a whole load of motors and show how many shots they could get out of a 1000mah battery (start the video at 42:18), and I bought a Warhead Black Standard as a result.

 

I use a 1000mah battery, and usually do about 2000 rounds a day, and the battery usually takes about 10-15mins to charge which suggests I’m using about 25% battery life.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Duff Beer

[Cannonfodder]

For me a couple of 1300mAh batteries is more than enough for a day (2-2.5k rounds mostly in semi auto). Infact what usually happens is the 1st battery often gives up about 1 minute into the last game so I either carry a spare or just swap for the fresh battery at lunch

[Speedbird_666]

Never believe the stated mAh on Airsoft LiPo packs.

 

2 x 1300mAh (quite old but good quality) RC packs would get me through a fairly average day of play easily. I bought some brand new 'Airsoft' 1300mAh packs and they just about last 2 games, and definately wouldn't make it to the lunch break.

 

I've now fitted stubby fixed stocks to a couple of my guns so I can throw in a decent sized (and quality) 3000mAh 11.1c RC LiPo and roll all day with it.

[Emergencychimps]

As mentioned, depends on play style, amount of shooting, RIF etc. I have never got through 2x 1300 MAH batteries in 1 day, I switched at lunch to be proactive and ensure I didn't run out and have to change in the field (another thing I then didn't have to carry, or think about). 

 

When running an aeg now, I use a titan 3000mah and just don't have to think about it, they have a lot of MAH for the physical space they take up. 

 

Not a problem at the moment, but cold can really impact the performance of batteries, so in the winter (5 degrees and lower), give some thought to your batteries temp as well. 

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

This is all making me think my DE is being extra hard on its battery.  I've had issues with the motor getting very toasty, perhaps it needs some adjustment.

 

Or it's finally time to open the gearbox and re-lube everything.

[EDcase]

Yep, 2x1300mAh easily get me through a day though I keep it on semi and try not to waste shots.  (Still get through about 2000 BBs though ?)

[Emergencychimps]

1 hour ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

This is all making me think my DE is being extra hard on its battery.  I've had issues with the motor getting very toasty, perhaps it needs some adjustment.

 

Or it's finally time to open the gearbox and re-lube everything.

 

That heat is energy that's coming from somewhere, and the only source on energy is your battery. 

 

I always go on the basis that 1 Mah is about 1 shot (give or take)eg if you're burning through a 1000 mah battery in 500 shots (I count my shots in how many mags have I reloaded), there is an issue.  

 

I'd suggest playing with the height of the motor first, get that as sweet as you can. But I always avoid opening gearboxes unless you have to and know what you're doing (I do with NGRS, don't with anything else!)

[Rogerborg]

7 minutes ago, Emergencychimps said:

I always go on the basis that 1 Mah is about 1 shot

 

I do too. But does that mean that well under 10% (and maybe down to 4%) of the energy from the battery is actually making it out the muzzle?

 

Please check my working:

 

7.4V x 1.3 Ah x 3600 (seconds in an hour) = 34,682J

 

If you get 1,300J out of the muzzle (1,300 shots at about 1J per BB), where's the rest of the energy going?

 

Am I off by an order of magnitude? Have I carried the derp?

[Leo Greer]

First off, Li-ions, including Titan, are not suitable for airsoft. They're also incredibly overpriced. They're not suitable because of the extremely low discharge rate compared to LiPos--a lot of their packs are advertised at 5C (5C x 3000mah won't even run an ordinary AEG correctly) but it gets worse. Some packs have been measured at more like 2.8C.

 

This was tested by an actual electrical engineer with proper equipment in this thread:

 

https://www.airsoftsociety.com/threads/objective-battery-test-titan-lion-vs-kypom-lipo-vs-hv-lipo-valken-others.161379/

 

Because of this inadequately low discharge, Li-ions are great as HPA batteries, and for flashlights, but not for airsoft where burst current is demanded time after time.

 

 

Battery life is, as stated, subjective to your build and style.

 

Some of my more conservative friends use more like one 1200mah 25c 7.4v in a day, but I usually run a 2200mah 25C 11.1v, which with my aggressive play style usually gets drained to about halfway to LVC.

 

You should not be going through 3-4 1400mah packs. That's a sign of either a really inefficient build, or more likely, really bad packs that are unable to provide the current your gun needs, and are way lower specs than advertised. I had this issue a long while back with four "Crazepony" 1400 mah LiPos, which ran out extraordinarily fast and then puffed.

 

Higher voltage actually does affect efficiency. This is because high voltage provides higher instantaneous torque, which is important for cycle startup, where the motor suddenly has to pull the spring's weight. So higher voltage actually mitigates some voltage sag on startup.

15 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

I do too. But does that mean that well under 10% (and maybe down to 4%) of the energy from the battery is actually making it out the muzzle?

 

Please check my working:

 

7.4V x 1.3 Ah x 3600 (seconds in an hour) = 34,682J

 

If you get 1,300J out of the muzzle (1,300 shots at about 1J per BB), where's the rest of the energy going?

 

Am I off by an order of magnitude? Have I carried the derp?

 

You're assuming 1mah per shot, which could easily be untrue, and you're also assuming that the battery is rated correctly and isn't more like 800mah in actuality.

 

The only real way to calculate this is to setup a baseline test on your build: charge the battery, measure capacity, as well the IR rating to determine if you actually have the stated discharge, and you're not overdrawing the battery, and then shoot 100 times (or whatever number) and measure again.

[Fatboy40]

1 hour ago, Leo Greer said:

First off, Li-ions, including Titan, are not suitable for airsoft. They're also incredibly overpriced. They're not suitable because of the extremely low discharge rate compared to LiPos--a lot of their packs are advertised at 5C (5C x 3000mah won't even run an ordinary AEG correctly) but it gets worse. Some packs have been measured at more like 2.8C.

 

I'd better sell the 4x 3,000 mAh 11.1v Titan and 2x 3,000 mAh 11.1v Valken Li-Io's that my son and I use then in our AEG's and DMR, the good RPS we get in them then must mean my chrono is broken, and what see when playing is just an optical illusion.

[RostokMcSpoons]

19 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

 

I'd better sell the 4x 3,000 mAh 11.1v Titan and 2x 3,000 mAh 11.1v Valken Li-Io's that my son and I use then in our AEG's and DMR, the good RPS we get in them then must mean my chrono is broken, and what see when playing is just an optical illusion.

 

I must have got one of the same bad chrono's too, that 16rps it's showing for my DE must be a lie!

[Fatboy40]

19 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

I must have got one of the same bad chrono's too, that 16rps it's showing for my DE must be a lie!

 

Ummm, Mr Spoons, I'm getting 22 to 24 RPS on my DE M904E (stock gears, but admittedly not the stock motor).

 

I think it's time for you to raid the "Upgrade Fund" again ?

[Speedbird_666]

4 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

but admittedly not the stock motor

 

What motor are you running? - I tried a 16TPA SHS in mine and I was getting overspin.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Speedbird_666

[RostokMcSpoons]

25 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

 

Ummm, Mr Spoons, I'm getting 22 to 24 RPS on my DE M904E (stock gears, but admittedly not the stock motor).

 

I think it's time for you to raid the "Upgrade Fund" again ?

 

Given it's been a toasty and not overly impressive motor in the first place, I would have to say (in best Mrs Slocombe voice) "you are correctitudinous in this"

I have on several occasions burned through ~4000 BBs on a day long skirmish, I'd need to establish a separate ammunition fund though, if I up the RoF

I hopefully have some incoming good news on the job front, so the Upgrade Fund might itself get upgraded to the "Buy More Gnus" fund though  

Edited May 25, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Fatboy40]

32 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

What motor are you running? - I tried a 16TPA SHS in mine and I was getting overspin.

 

This one...

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/motors-parts/xt-high-torque-motor-22tpa-long-fan

 

... pulling an XT M105 spring.

[Speedbird_666]

18 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

 

This one...

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/motors-parts/xt-high-torque-motor-22tpa-long-fan

 

... pulling an XT M105 spring.

 

That makes sense.

 

I might pick up a 28TPA motor for mine. Should run quite a bit cooler and more efficiently than the stock motor.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Just tested my DE, it's now at 15 rps on my 11.1v Titan Li-Ion 16C.

And it's the same 15 rps on my Crazepony 11.1v Li-Po 30C

 

More damnable lies from broken chrono, obviously!


But it's lost 1.5rps since I tested my DE shortly after I got it.  Unsure if it's the gearbox gumming up, or the motor losing its oomph, or indeed both batteries no longer outputting as much current.
Ah, the original test may have been on the stock spring, rather than the ASG M105 that's in there now.

 

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

46 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

That makes sense.

 

I might pick up a 28TPA motor for mine. Should run quite a bit cooler and more efficiently than the stock motor.

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with that.  Either the 22 or the 28 TPA can then find it's way to my shopping basket 

[Dan Robinson]

5 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

More damnable lies from broken chrono, obviously

 

We can compare and contrast poorly birds and shifty chronos next Sunday... Will be coming up to SO with the boy and possibly a buddy in need of pew pew therapy. 

 

I'm not convinced my DE is squirting straightly. 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Excellent, looking forward to seeing you again Dan
It's Monday though (the 29th).   I hope that's what you meant!

 

Have you checked the hop rubber is all in one piece and the hop is being applied properly?

Edited May 25, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons