UK law on shooting a RIF in a garden

[Tommikka]

55 minutes ago, Psilosylum said:

Pretty sure you're allowed to use toys (RIF's are toys if they're under a certain power?) within 50ft of a road.... the only time i've heard that law apply is when people are shooting shotgun or rifle on private land??

If the police come round to tell you off for plinking in your backgarden, file a complaint against them for wasting police time lol

RIFs aren’t toys under a certain power, it’s airsoft guns (RIFs/IFs that are exempted from other firearms legislation under amendments in the Policing and crime act.

 

 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/3/part/6/crossheading/firearms/enacted

 

 

(5)After section 57 insert—

“57AException for airsoft guns

(1)An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of this Act.

(2)An “airsoft gun” is a barrelled weapon of any description which—

(a)is designed to discharge only a small plastic missile (whether or not it is also capable of discharging any other kind of missile), and

(b)is not capable of discharging a missile (of any kind) with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that exceeds the permitted level.

(3)“Small plastic missile” means a missile that—

(a)is made wholly or partly from plastics,

(b)is spherical, and

(c)does not exceed 8 millimetres in diameter.

(4)The permitted kinetic energy level is—

(a)in the case of a weapon which is capable of discharging two or more missiles successively without repeated pressure on the trigger, 1.3 joules;

(b)in any other case, 2.5 joules.”

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

5 hours ago, Tommikka said:

RIFs/IFs that are exempted from other firearms legislation

 

 

An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of [the Firearms] Act.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/57A

 

Any common sense interpretation would mean that they shouldn't be regarded as firearms for the Highways Act.

 

But if the law operated on common sense, lawyers wouldn't drive Range Rovers.

 

[Tackle]

Let's not forget, what would the man on the Clapham omnibus think about it all, that's almost as much of a precedent as any set in stone law that anyone here can quote, it's when conjecture & interpretation become just as important when it comes to all things "GNU"., especially once the tabloids get their grubby little mitts on it. 

[Cannonfodder]

I have a challenge to all those saying rifs don't count as firearms under the highways act. 

 

Take your favourite rif, wave it around on a motorway bridge and see what happens

[Neptune]

On 09/11/2022 at 15:15, Cannonfodder said:

I have a challenge to all those saying rifs don't count as firearms under the highways act. 

 

Take your favourite rif, wave it around on a motorway bridge and see what happens

Well that's a public place and since you wouldn't have a good excuse for waving it around there you would be arrested under section 19 of the Firearms Act. Highways Act would be irrelevant.

[Cannonfodder]

1 minute ago, Neptune said:

Well that's a public place and since you wouldn't have a good excuse for waving it around there you would be arrested under section 19 of the Firearms Act. Highways Act would be irrelevant.

True, but you know what I'm getting at.

Do the same but on private land but still visible from a busy road and let us know how it goes 

[Rogerborg]

On 09/11/2022 at 15:15, Cannonfodder said:

wave it around on a motorway bridge

 

If I wear my hi-vis, there's a fair chance that I might be brought tea and biscuits instead of being arrested.

[Tackle]

I'm not even sure why we're still entertaining this thread, yes there are laws pertaining to rif use that any of us could easily fall foul of, but every thread that's EVER discussed anything along these lines have all come to the same conclusions :

 

IF YOU WAVE A RIF AROUND ANYWHERE THAT MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN SEE YOU, YOU WILL GET A VISIT FROM THE POLICE. 

 

Now irrespective of anyone here's knowledge of the laws, taking the moral high ground because "According to laws XYZ its OK to do this, so it's my right" is bollocks, the plod are obligated to investigate every call they receive regarding potential firearms, even when your in your own back garden or on private land, & there isn't a court in the land that will support you versus the police when in comes to them doing their duties in this matter, whether its them telling you to "don't be a cnut, use some common sense", or the other end of the sliding scale, them shooting you dead. 

Even if the attending officers are very knowledgeable about Airsoft & are polite when discussing it with you, respond with a smart mouth & you'll find yourself nicked for "causing distress" or public order offences, & your kit grabbed for "assessment", & don't expect to get it back anytime soon. 

 

Back on track, if you want to fiddle with your guns in your back garden, let any overlooking neighbours know that their harmless but realistic toys & explain your hobby, maybe even print something out explaining it in more detail, get them on board & understanding. 

If if you do fire your toys in your garden, set up an appropriate range with a decent backstop to keep any stray bb's within your property boundaries. 

USE SOME COMMON SENSE ? ?

[Rogerborg]

3 hours ago, Tackle said:

I'm not even sure why we're still entertaining this thread

 

I've honestly forgotten what it's about, I'm just enjoying the <ackchyually> handbag fight.

[Tackle]

24 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

I've honestly forgotten what it's about, I'm just enjoying the <ackchyually> handbag fight.

LOL, I know what you mean, I had to scroll to the top to check what we're actually discussing, but I'll be grumpily honest & admit I'm so feckin tired of spoon feeding noobs answers to the same questions that have been asked a thousand times before, made worse by wannabe trolls that say shite like "if the plod come round, make an official complaint about wasting time" etc. 

There's a core of members here, you & I included, that literally have hundreds of years of combined experience within Airsoft, add to that our own personal life experiences & skill sets in numerous professional fields, & I'll bet that not one of us has fallen foul of the law due to how we use/behave/own our Airsoft rifs. 

Why. 

Because we've been sensible, applied common sense & been aware of the massive responsibilities of "gun" ownership. 

Yet we're still having to spell it out to new members ffs. 

[Cannonfodder]

If it wasn't for the potential repercussions to the hobby in general I'm always tempted to let the internet lawyers fuck about and find out

[Psilosylum]

On 08/11/2022 at 17:41, Tackle said:

Pretty sure your wrong, & even if your not, the last bit definitely fails the "attitude test", which as everyone knows, the plod will always win in the long run, if there isn't a precise law to combat an airsoft related "offence", a loosely fitting one will be made to fit lol. 

 

Plus when it comes to Airsoft, we need people on our side, especially the police & other figures of authority, otherwise every negative police report is another nail in the coffin for Airsoft in its current form, not something I want to see change. 

Touché.. a lot has changed since i stopped playing ?

Obviously a large dose of common sense is needed.. if your in a garden which isn't over-looked with a sufficient backstop it shouldn't be an issue is kind of what i was getting at.. Though in that case i guess there wouldn't be much chance of a complaint being made in the first place.

I guess i'm still kind of frustrated at the laws which have been introduced to give the public the illusion of safety whilst only actually penalising law abiding hobbyists. Though unfortunatly i guess there are idiots who are the reason these laws have been enacted in the first place ?

 

 (woops, sorry for reactivating a dead thread too.. haven't used a forum in a while ?)

Edited November 28, 2022 by Psilosylum

[Rogerborg]

12 hours ago, Psilosylum said:

I guess i'm still kind of frustrated at the laws which have been introduced to give the public the illusion of safety whilst only actually penalising law abiding hobbyists.

 

Oh, we've had plenty of rants here about that.  Our firearms-and-firearm-looking-things statute book is a patchwork Frankenstein's monster.  The one that really does my head in is S19, which seems absolutely back-to-front in terms of rationality.

 

Carrying firearm in a public place.

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

 

Caught with an undersized bright orange toy in public, get the jail vs "It's OK, constable, it's a real firearm, but I left the shellazines at home." ?

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Oh, we've had plenty of rants here about that.  Our firearms-and-firearm-looking-things statute book is a patchwork Frankenstein's monster.  The one that really does my head in is S19, which seems absolutely back-to-front in terms of rationality.

 

Carrying firearm in a public place.

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

 

Caught with an undersized bright orange toy in public, get the jail vs "It's OK, constable, it's a real firearm, but I left the shellazines at home." ?

 

I’m guessing it’s trust and intent.

 

You jump through a few hoops for a shotgun certificate, so less likely to have it out of the house “just because”. Even more hoops with other firearms (generally section1 or 5) and therefore extremely unlikely to be “just because”

 

Airguns and imitation firearms are a lot easier to get hold of, so maybe the thought is they are more likely be in your boot for nefarious reasons?

 

Or

 

It’s all just a huge mish-mash to ensure Lord Rich Big Knob can always get away with carrying, and Joe Shmo from down the road will always be prosecuted. Or is that paranoia ?

[RostokMcSpoons]

2 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Oh, we've had plenty of rants here about that.  Our firearms-and-firearm-looking-things statute book is a patchwork Frankenstein's monster.  The one that really does my head in is S19, which seems absolutely back-to-front in terms of rationality.

 

Carrying firearm in a public place.

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

 

Caught with an undersized bright orange toy in public, get the jail vs "It's OK, constable, it's a real firearm, but I left the shellazines at home." ?

 

I suspect the "unloaded shotgun" exemption is to allow the Landed Gentry's gamekeeper to stroll to the pub with his shotgun slung over his shoulder, so he can enjoy a pint and a pie, without having to divert on his way to store the pew-pew.

It's one law for them and another for the rest of us, I tell you!

 

[Rogerborg]

 

2 hours ago, rocketdogbert said:

It’s all just a huge mish-mash to ensure Lord Rich Big Knob can always get away with carrying, and Joe Shmo from down the road will always be prosecuted. Or is that paranoia

 

Honestly, I think it is that. There's no real reason why shotguns and firearm possession are conditional-on-ammunition offence when the same very broad "reasonable excuse" could apply - and I think should apply - whenever you have one in public, shootable or otherwise.

[mbea61]

I've been looking into the rules and regulations just lately about shooting in the back garden and although there are a set number of rules regarding air rifles of sub 12ft lbs (the legal limit in uk) which relate to not shooting beyound your boundary, having to use a effective back stop, not discharging a air rifle within 50ft of a public rd or foot path and not causing distress to neighbours i can find no information on iether using a air pistol or airsoft gun all airsoft are alot less powerful and even if bb ricoches it is very unlikely to cause injury as the power of most airsoft guns is around 1-1.5 joules energy were as airguns can range from 7 joules for a pistol to up to 16 joules for a sub 12ft lb rifle also its a plastic bb that is 0.2 to 0.2.5 not a steel bb or pellet that even in 177 is about 8.5grms or up to 16grms or more for a. 22 air rifle and this is also the reason that a lot of indoor airgun ranges where people use air pistol to shoot knock down steel plonking targets at a range of 6-10mtrs are now banning the use of metal ammo at this range due to people being hit from ricoches its not to bad with rifles at 25mtrs but you do still get a few also since these airgun ranges are banning metal ammo both lead and steel and not only telling but even providing pistol shooters with airsoft pistols for safety will this ever be a valid form of defence as people won't be able to use a air pistol other than precision target shooting which is only a very small minority of air pistol shooters not to mention you dont use gbbg or co2 pistols to shoot 6mtr precision target sorry for rant gents 

[Cannonfodder]

3 hours ago, mbea61 said:

Word salad

Any chance you could put that in English? Maybe try using a little bit of punctuation too, that way your post might make some sense 

[Herrgh]

39 minutes ago, Cannonfodder said:

Any chance you could put that in English? Maybe try using a little bit of punctuation too, that way your post might make some sense 

 

ChatGPT to the rescue! (Bold text added for emphasis.)

 

Quote

I have recently been researching the rules and regulations regarding shooting in my backyard. While there are specific rules for air rifles with a muzzle energy of less than 12ft lbs (the legal limit in the UK), such as not shooting beyond your property boundary, using an effective backstop, avoiding discharging near public roads or footpaths, and not causing distress to neighbors, I have been unable to find any information regarding the use of air pistols or airsoft guns.
 

All airsoft guns are much less powerful, and even if a BB were to ricochet, it is highly unlikely to cause injury. Most airsoft guns have an energy level of around 1-1.5 joules, whereas airguns can range from 7 joules for a pistol to up to 16 joules for a sub 12ft lb rifle. Additionally, airsoft guns fire plastic BBs weighing around 0.2 to 0.25 grams, unlike steel BBs or pellets used in air rifles. Even a .177 caliber pellet weighs about 8.5 grams, while a .22 caliber pellet can weigh up to 16 grams or more. This is why many indoor airgun ranges, where people use air pistols to shoot knockdown steel targets at a range of 6-10 meters, are now prohibiting the use of metal ammo due to the risk of ricochets. Though the issue is not as severe at 25 meters with rifles, there are still a few instances.
 

Furthermore, these airgun ranges are not only prohibiting the use of metal ammo but also providing airsoft pistols to pistol shooters for safety. However, this raises the question of whether air pistols will ever be considered a valid form of defense, as individuals will be unable to use them, except for precision target shooting, which represents only a very small minority of air pistol shooters. It is worth noting that precision target shooting at 6 meters is not typically done with gas blowback or CO2 pistols. I apologize for the rant, gentlemen.

 

 

I also had the AI analyse the communication quality of the original post, for the funny:

 

Quote

The original paragraph suffers from several issues that affect its communication quality:

1. Lack of clarity: The paragraph lacks clarity due to run-on sentences, lack of punctuation, and poor sentence structure. This makes it challenging to understand the intended message and follow the logical flow of ideas.

2. Lack of organization: The paragraph jumps between different topics without clear transitions or organization. It discusses regulations for air rifles, then abruptly shifts to air pistols and airsoft guns, ricochets, and indoor airgun ranges. This lack of coherence makes it difficult to grasp the main point being made.

3. Lack of conciseness: The paragraph is excessively wordy and contains repetitive information. It could benefit from concise and focused statements to convey the main ideas more effectively.

4. Informal language and style: The paragraph uses informal language, abbreviations, and a conversational tone, which can undermine the clarity and professionalism of the message. It also includes personal opinions and unrelated remarks that distract from the main topic.

Overall, the original paragraph's communication quality is hindered by its lack of clarity, disorganized structure, verbosity, and informal style. Improving these aspects would greatly enhance the effectiveness of the message and make it easier for readers to understand the main points being conveyed.

 

Gosh. We can all learn.

[Rogerborg]

7 hours ago, mbea61 said:

sorry for rant gents

 

We love a good rant here, but I'm not getting enough outrage from that post.

[Tommikka]

4 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

We love a good rant here, but I'm not getting enough outrage from that post.

Grrrr

 

its an outrage 

11 hours ago, mbea61 said:

I've been looking into the rules and regulations just lately about shooting in the back garden and although there are a set number of rules regarding air rifles of sub 12ft lbs (the legal limit in uk) which relate to not shooting beyound your boundary, having to use a effective back stop, not discharging a air rifle within 50ft of a public rd or foot path and not causing distress to neighbours i can find no information on iether using a air pistol or airsoft gun all airsoft are alot less powerful and even if bb ricoches it is very unlikely to cause injury as the power of most airsoft guns is around 1-1.5 joules energy were as airguns can range from 7 joules for a pistol to up to 16 joules for a sub 12ft lb rifle also its a plastic bb that is 0.2 to 0.2.5 not a steel bb or pellet that even in 177 is about 8.5grms or up to 16grms or more for a. 22 air rifle and this is also the reason that a lot of indoor airgun ranges where people use air pistol to shoot knock down steel plonking targets at a range of 6-10mtrs are now banning the use of metal ammo at this range due to people being hit from ricoches its not to bad with rifles at 25mtrs but you do still get a few also since these airgun ranges are banning metal ammo both lead and steel and not only telling but even providing pistol shooters with airsoft pistols for safety will this ever be a valid form of defence as people won't be able to use a air pistol other than precision target shooting which is only a very small minority of air pistol shooters not to mention you dont use gbbg or co2 pistols to shoot 6mtr precision target sorry for rant gents 

The Highways Act covers the firing within 50’, and covers ‘any firearm or firework’

 

The 6 & 12 ft lbs covers low powered air weapons in the firearms act, but still treats them within the firearms definition

Even though airsoft fires at a much lower power it previously still qualified as a low powered air weapon / firearm

But legislation change exempted compliant airsoft guns from being firearms 

This could arguably mean that airsoft is legal to fire within 50’ of a highway

 

 But the best position to be in is to never test that out.

 

Irrespective of what is being shot a police response could occur, which provided there isn’t idiotic escalation or other offences would generally result in ‘advice’.  Police advice can be given in many legal situations in order to avoid worrying the public in the first place

 

Be sensible

Don’t be overlooked 

Don’t be overheard

Ensure that every BB is stopped and cannot bounce 

Be friendly and open with neighbours

If there’s any concern then don’t do it

[Dan Robinson]

2 hours ago, Tommikka said:

 Police advice can be given in many legal situations in order to avoid worrying the public in the first place

 

Be sensible

Don’t be overlooked 

Don’t be overheard

Ensure that every BB is stopped and cannot bounce 

Be friendly and open with neighbours

If there’s any concern then don’t do it

 

Or in other words - harking back to the other thread - "Don't be a genital" seems to cover most bases.

[typefish]

On 14/06/2023 at 13:58, Tommikka said:

The 6 & 12 ft lbs covers low powered air weapons in the firearms act, but still treats them within the firearms definition

Even though airsoft fires at a much lower power it previously still qualified as a low powered air weapon / firearm

But legislation change exempted compliant airsoft guns from being firearms 

This could arguably mean that airsoft is legal to fire within 50’ of a highway

 

 But the best position to be in is to never test that out.

 

In agree with that last sentence, however if I were a betting person, I would say that it would have been the intention of parliament to say that the word "firearm" within the Highways Act is something that is to be interpreted as described within the Firearms Acts.

[Rogerborg]

3 hours ago, typefish said:

I would say that it would have been the intention of parliament to say that the word "firearm" within the Highways Act is something that is to be interpreted as described within the Firearms Acts

 

I'd agree, as me. Although if I were a bitter, mediocre lawyer whiling away the hours until retirement at the CPS, I'd argue with firmly faked sincerity that if Parliament had meant the Highways Act to use the Firearms Act definition, then Parliament could and would have said so.

[Shamal]

On 11/11/2022 at 15:04, Tackle said:

LOL, I know what you mean, I had to scroll to the top to check what we're actually discussing, but I'll be grumpily honest & admit I'm so feckin tired of spoon feeding noobs answers to the same questions that have been asked a thousand times before, made worse by wannabe trolls that say shite like "if the plod come round, make an official complaint about wasting time" etc. 

There's a core of members here, you & I included, that literally have hundreds of years of combined experience within Airsoft, add to that our own personal life experiences & skill sets in numerous professional fields, & I'll bet that not one of us has fallen foul of the law due to how we use/behave/own our Airsoft rifs. 

Why. 

Because we've been sensible, applied common sense & been aware of the massive responsibilities of "gun" ownership. 

Yet we're still having to spell it out to new members ffs. 

Yeah but am I allowed to shoot from my bedroom window at next doors fecking cat? 

I hate it with all my being.??