RIFs on a Plane

[rj1986]

@Dan Robinson

Indeed, it would be good to know what the outcome was like, as I'm going to Tokyo/Osaka in March with BA, but the return is a 2 part code share, with JAL being the named airline for the first bit.

Edited January 10, 2023 by rj1986

[Dan Robinson]

On 10/01/2023 at 09:45, rj1986 said:

@Dan Robinson

Indeed, it would be good to know what the outcome was like, as I'm going to Tokyo/Osaka in March with BA, but the return is a 2 part code share, with JAL being the named airline for the first bit.

 

Yep - made it through the green channel no problem.  

 

Was quite entertaining breaking out hte guns in the middle of an airport - had to prove they were empty and what we said they were.  Must have messed with a few other passenger's heads LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

If you're flying back with JAL, they will need you to Fax them the spec sheet of the pew.  I just sent them a print out of the web page from KSC and Marui.  Felt very archaic - even the father in law had retired his fax machine to a cupboard.   SWMBO offered little in the way of translation help too, so the boy and I had to muddle through with the lovely JAL ladies.  

 

Top tip with JAL.... Fly with something unusual, as an extra bag, and they'll treat you differently - in a good way as they process the baggage individually.  Twice now I've done this and got through check in and boarding ahead of other people.   Time before this I had to bring a guitar back.  Anyone would have thought I was Ed Sheeran's older, better looking and more talented brother.  Shame it didn't land me an upgrade though.

 

Someone asked me about a Derringer two shot, not sure if it was here or at AWA... Pretty good prices too for guns, but the accessories and outfits were more expensive.

 

Bloody early start it was too, but had nice sunrise to say good by to what will soon be my new home.

 

 

 

Safe journey!!!  I doubt I will be going back until the end of the year, but the boy is going in the summer, all things being equal.  Not been to Osaka yet... Guess you'll be chomping on he Okonomiyaki 

[rj1986]

I'm more impressed with going through the green channel at the end. Nothing makes you feel more like a mob boss under surveillance by MI6 than picking your bags up at heathrow. 

 

I have a pretty packed schedule, but a couple of free afternoons so I'll try and plan a trip to a couple shops and see if there's anything super nice that i must have.

[The Waco Kid]

A lot of airline stuff is oddly outdated. Faxes are still used, I think investment tends to go where it’s seen and back room stuff had been left behind.

Edited January 19, 2023 by The Waco Kid

[Dan Robinson]

15 hours ago, rj1986 said:

I'm more impressed with going through the green channel at the end. Nothing makes you feel more like a mob boss under surveillance by MI6 than picking your bags up at heathrow. 

 

I have a pretty packed schedule, but a couple of free afternoons so I'll try and plan a trip to a couple shops and see if there's anything super nice that i must have.

 

I always put it down to profiling.... Flights from Japan probably don't flag up as many people/bags of concern.  Not sure if it's the same now, but we always used to land just after an air India flight, and there always seemed to be a healthy number of people having all sorts of interesting and tasty looking things plucked out of suitcases.  They just ignored everyone else.

 

In recent years I can't remember seeing a sngle person pulled aside for inspection though. 

 

Kind of ironic when I think of all the dodgy insect killers and Kobe beef steaks my wife and MIL used to stash in my luggage - and not always warning me about. 😂😂😂😂

 

10 hours ago, The Waco Kid said:

A lot of airline stuff is oddly outdated. Faxes are still used, I think investment tends to go where it’s seen and back room stuff had been left behind.

 

 

I've found over the years that Japan is a strange mix of super high tech and beligerently stuck in the past. I remember chip and pin being years behind Europe, and signing for credit card purchases with random Disney character names for ages.   Could have done very well in charge backs and dodgy purchases had I been otherwise inclined. 

 

Airlines, I suppose are like banks.... The cost of upgrading the backend is so much more than just the hardware and software, that they're just hoping that it all just hangs on in there. 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Dan Robinson

[Tommikka]

The fax machine example here isn’t necessarily an airline clinging to old technology, particularly with this being Japanese airlines as fax machines remain prevalent in Japan, and that’s not the only country or industry 

 

 

A fax is a very good proven technology that makes a piece of paper physically arrive at a destination 

 

You don’t need a fax machine to send a fax, computers still have fax as a printer driver, and I still remember the day in the early 1990s that the IT systems manager ran upstairs with excitement that he heard the servers fax board kick in because I had discovered it as a print driver…… and my confusion - “Why wouldn’t someone use the fax driver? I don’t have to walk across the room to pick up a piece of paper from the printer, over to the other office to the fax, and then downstairs to the shredder room”

(Though I do still love a good shredding session and it’s very sad to have less paper)

 

A piece of paper popping out of a fax happens straight away, is visible and makes a noise 

You know it’s there and can pick it up instantly or you can leave it until you feel  like grabbing the pile

 

If it’s an email then someone has to look and act, they might open it not act and then it ends up forgotten, it could disappear into a junk box etc

 

 

 

[BigAl]

A fax is also accepted as a legal document unlike e mail. 

[EvilMonkee]

2 hours ago, BigAl said:

A fax is also accepted as a legal document unlike e mail. 

At least until the proper advent of personal cryptographically secure electronic signatures.  We could do it now but as with anything would need Government support.

[Dan Robinson]

4 hours ago, BigAl said:

A fax is also accepted as a legal document unlike e mail. 

 

I've signed many pdfs for contracts 🤔 some worth house buying money. Have watched a few court cases in the states where the editing of PDF files from banks was going to be part of the evidence against the defendant. 

 

I think the time is coming... 

 

Limited though my view is I know, I haven't seen a functioning fax machine here in years, but they do like them over there. 

[Tommikka]

2 hours ago, EvilMonkee said:

At least until the proper advent of personal cryptographically secure electronic signatures.  We could do it now but as with anything would need Government support.

 

29 minutes ago, Dan Robinson said:

 

I've signed many pdfs for contracts 🤔 some worth house buying money. Have watched a few court cases in the states where the editing of PDF files from banks was going to be part of the evidence against the defendant. 

 

I think the time is coming... 

 

Limited though my view is I know, I haven't seen a functioning fax machine here in years, but they do like them over there. 

True certified digital signatures have been about for some time, but as the EvilMonkee says isn’t yet widespread on a personal basis - though I was using my personal one 15 years ago, and doubt it’s been put to use for much less than that, definitely more than a decade

 

Old people may remember Ceefax, which was a form of internet on your TV, two way communication versions such as Prestel were used for some industries and dated back to the early 80s.  Prestel didn’t pick up well here with dial

up Bulletin Boards being preferred by British geeky types 

In France Minitel home terminals were distributed by a phone company as an investment to save on updates to printed phone directories, and stayed popular with its various online services.  This lasted about 30 years in france, well into the internet age

 

Faxes gained popularity about  10 years before Ceefax, Prestel, Minitel etc and has lasted for longer.  Generally we won’t see faxes and will think to email instead but their value in transferring a tangible duplicate remains, complete with legal recognition where applicable 

 

I can forsee that even when personal digital signatures become widespread, that faxes will still have their niche areas for some time

 

 

Before covid there was still a real fax in my office, but with a steady change across to personal Skype numbers we still had desktop phones.  During Covid the phones left the desks, and only a handful remain as fall backs.  
I’ve still not even noticed whether or not the fax is one of them

[The Waco Kid]

Ceefax! Old people! I resent the implication sir! 😋

 

I recall reading jokes on Ceefax and pressing a button to reveal the punch line. What else do you need? 😁

[Shamal]

4 hours ago, Tommikka said:

 

True certified digital signatures have been about for some time, but as the EvilMonkee says isn’t yet widespread on a personal basis - though I was using my personal one 15 years ago, and doubt it’s been put to use for much less than that, definitely more than a decade

 

Old people may remember Ceefax, which was a form of internet on your TV, two way communication versions such as Prestel were used for some industries and dated back to the early 80s.  Prestel didn’t pick up well here with dial

up Bulletin Boards being preferred by British geeky types 

In France Minitel home terminals were distributed by a phone company as an investment to save on updates to printed phone directories, and stayed popular with its various online services.  This lasted about 30 years in france, well into the internet age

 

Faxes gained popularity about  10 years before Ceefax, Prestel, Minitel etc and has lasted for longer.  Generally we won’t see faxes and will think to email instead but their value in transferring a tangible duplicate remains, complete with legal recognition where applicable 

 

I can forsee that even when personal digital signatures become widespread, that faxes will still have their niche areas for some time

 

 

Before covid there was still a real fax in my office, but with a steady change across to personal Skype numbers we still had desktop phones.  During Covid the phones left the desks, and only a handful remain as fall backs.  
I’ve still not even noticed whether or not the fax is one of them

Old people may remember Ceefax.

 

Hey don't forget Oracle young man.

Fetch me bedsocks. 😂😂

 

Regards 

 

[Tackle]

[Dan Robinson]

Ceefax! 

 

I'll have you know I had the Ceefax chip installed on my BBC Micro B. 

 

Still have it somewhere boxed up with the Speccy 48K

[Tommikka]

13 hours ago, Shamal said:

Old people may remember Ceefax.

 

Hey don't forget Oracle young man.

Fetch me bedsocks. 😂😂

 

Regards 

 

‘Young man’ may not be a suitable description when my dementia forgot Oracle

12 hours ago, Dan Robinson said:

Ceefax! 

 

I'll have you know I had the Ceefax chip installed on my BBC Micro B. 

 

Still have it somewhere boxed up with the Speccy 48K

Those will be worth a pretty penny, which I always think when I poke my nose in the attic seeing my Spectrum, QL etc boxes …… and then close the attic again as I won’t want anyone else’s sticky fingers on them 

[Rogerborg]

21 hours ago, Tommikka said:

two way communication versions such as Prestel were used for some industries and dated back to the early 80s

 

Bank of Scotchland were doing internet banking on it before there was an internet.  I shudder to think what security it didn't  have back then.  5p a minute (that could buy a Caramac bar!) daytime rates, on top of BT call charges, I'm surprised it ever got to 90,000 subscribers.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

On 20/01/2023 at 20:21, Shamal said:

Hey don't forget Oracle young man.

Fetch me bedsocks. 😂😂

 

Regards 

 

Oracle on the telly, or the one ar Delphi?

[Shamal]

57 minutes ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Oracle on the telly, or the one ar Delphi?

Haha. The electronic one.That was when TV remotes were sonic!

 

[rj1986]

Just as an update if anyone is interested, I phoned JAL last week to inquire about imports - as I'm on a two part ticket with ITM->HND with JAL and then HND->LHR with BA.

 

BA said check with JAL as they are the check in agents, JAL said "i dunno". So they asked for details via email and spec sheets of what I would be getting, so sent them links to a NGRS MP5 and AKM GBB as examples.

 

So now its back over to them to get back in contact in a couple days. If its a no-go, it will be a case of weighing up buying and posting vs buying in the UK without the faff factor.

 

EDIT: JAL phoned back, confirming it's all good. They even put a note on my file saying that i may need special check in. If I don't buy anything, let them know.

The only issue is them saying that I should re-check in with BA in HND. So i spoke to BA via live chat and again, they just shrugged and went "S'aight, just check in with JAL". I saved that chat, so hopefully it should be smooth sailing apart from the wife moaning, asking "Don't you already have that one?"

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by rj1986

[Dan Robinson]

JAL UK must have been forced to use emails because Faxes are rarer here LOL.  I'm guessing that is JAL check your bags in, it's down to you and UK authorities after that as the bags are effectively sealed at check in.

 

Sounds like you should be OK.

 

We've just booked our tickets for the next trip - Christmas again for me, the boy is moving permanently some time in August.   Poor lad wanted to go to the two day festival at the end of August, but I think he will be packed off sooner - guess I'll have to keep his RIFs well exercised in the interim :D.

 

 

[rj1986]

So for further reading on this if anyone is interested (long post incoming)

 

Went to Repmart in Akihabara, opposite Echigoya - lovely shop and one thing that is different is that this one has a lot of space, it doesn't feel like a carboot sale.

They had an in store special on the SD6 which was too tempting not to at £350ish. Also picked up a decent armourer's wrench whilst I was in there.

 

Then moved to Kyoto, and popped into Gun Shop Gurka in Osaka who deal with 2nd hand stuff. TM MK46 marked as B grade, this thing looked as good as new, bar some light scratches on the stock, and no outer box. Bargain at around £500.

Also in another shop down the road, elusive TM MP5 mags at £20 each, so picked up 4 of them, before the wife screamed at me.

 

So this is when it gets interesting.

 

My flights were ITM-HND with JAL, then HND-LHR with BA, all on the same ticket but handled by the respective airlines. I had spoken to BA ahead of time and they said if JAL check it in at ITM, then all gravy.

I had this confirmed in an live chat and had the print outs. I also phoned JAL in the UK ahead of time, and was told to email them the fact sheets and my flight details. They got back to me and said all good, they will put a marker on my ticket to have it inspected before being checked in.

 

In preparation, I bought 2 large cardboard boxes and taped them together into one long one (still within airline limits) and bubble wrapped it all inside.

 

Got to itami, checked in the suitcases no problem. Inspected the guns and a police officer walks over, gives it a quick look and a thumbs up. This is going too good... Then JAL bring out 2 huge metal flight cases. They want to ship the rifs in their special weapon cases. Ok not a deal breaker, I can just grab them at LHR. No dice, they are for domestic flights only, meaning I would need to pick it up at HND and re-check it in. Urghhhhhh.

 

So I ask "how do i get these back to London once they are out of the metal cases?" They then check in the empty 6ft cardboard box as well.

 

Get to HND, pick up cases and box, transfer them back to cardboard box an then lug it across to the international terminal to check back it.

 

Approach the desk where it's Japanese BA staff. Explain to them what has transpired and hand over the spec sheets of the 2 which i had printed out in advance. The nice lady nods, then talks to an older gentleman who looks at he spec sheet - says something in Japanese but i pick out the words Marui, and Airsoft. So they take me over to oversized baggage, and run it through an xray, no need to unbox this time. Nervous wait and then a thumbs up. I break out the roll of gaffer tape and seal down all the openings 3 times over.

 

Get to LHR, box pops out, border patrol/HMRC are all on strike and i walk through the green channel with no issues and from touchdown on the tarmac to my driveway in 90 minutes. 

 

Overall if I were to do it again, i would by a softcase/hard case and bung them in that if it weren't a mk46.

[Dan Robinson]

Interesting post. Thanks for the update, and confirmation that my experience wasn't a one off... Barring the fax machine. 

 

Which one could put down to me not giving enough notice before the flights. 

 

I'm back over at Christmas, so might have another butchers at the akihabara shops. 👍😂

[Tommikka]

4 hours ago, rj1986 said:

So for further reading on this if anyone is interested (long post incoming)

 

Went to Repmart in Akihabara, opposite Echigoya - lovely shop and one thing that is different is that this one has a lot of space, it doesn't feel like a carboot sale.

They had an in store special on the SD6 which was too tempting not to at £350ish. Also picked up a decent armourer's wrench whilst I was in there.

 

Then moved to Kyoto, and popped into Gun Shop Gurka in Osaka who deal with 2nd hand stuff. TM MK46 marked as B grade, this thing looked as good as new, bar some light scratches on the stock, and no outer box. Bargain at around £500.

Also in another shop down the road, elusive TM MP5 mags at £20 each, so picked up 4 of them, before the wife screamed at me.

 

So this is when it gets interesting.

 

My flights were ITM-HND with JAL, then HND-LHR with BA, all on the same ticket but handled by the respective airlines. I had spoken to BA ahead of time and they said if JAL check it in at ITM, then all gravy.

I had this confirmed in an live chat and had the print outs. I also phoned JAL in the UK ahead of time, and was told to email them the fact sheets and my flight details. They got back to me and said all good, they will put a marker on my ticket to have it inspected before being checked in.

 

In preparation, I bought 2 large cardboard boxes and taped them together into one long one (still within airline limits) and bubble wrapped it all inside.

 

Got to itami, checked in the suitcases no problem. Inspected the guns and a police officer walks over, gives it a quick look and a thumbs up. This is going too good... Then JAL bring out 2 huge metal flight cases. They want to ship the rifs in their special weapon cases. Ok not a deal breaker, I can just grab them at LHR. No dice, they are for domestic flights only, meaning I would need to pick it up at HND and re-check it in. Urghhhhhh.

 

So I ask "how do i get these back to London once they are out of the metal cases?" They then check in the empty 6ft cardboard box as well.

 

Get to HND, pick up cases and box, transfer them back to cardboard box an then lug it across to the international terminal to check back it.

 

Approach the desk where it's Japanese BA staff. Explain to them what has transpired and hand over the spec sheets of the 2 which i had printed out in advance. The nice lady nods, then talks to an older gentleman who looks at he spec sheet - says something in Japanese but i pick out the words Marui, and Airsoft. So they take me over to oversized baggage, and run it through an xray, no need to unbox this time. Nervous wait and then a thumbs up. I break out the roll of gaffer tape and seal down all the openings 3 times over.

 

Get to LHR, box pops out, border patrol/HMRC are all on strike and i walk through the green channel with no issues and from touchdown on the tarmac to my driveway in 90 minutes. 

 

Overall if I were to do it again, i would by a softcase/hard case and bung them in that if it weren't a mk46.

Award yourself a biscuit (a fancy one) for taking the effort to update us

 

Great result 

[rj1986]

And picture tax 

2 hours ago, Dan Robinson said:

Interesting post. Thanks for the update, and confirmation that my experience wasn't a one off... Barring the fax machine. 

 

Which one could put down to me not giving enough notice before the flights. 

 

I'm back over at Christmas, so might have another butchers at the akihabara shops. 👍😂

Rep mart is great - cheaper than most and like I said, a really nice shop with plenty of space to look. They even have custom carrier bags that fit the boxes in nicely.

 

also if you’re in Osaka, SFBU had some great gear in, and lots of new goodies like the Carl Gustav launcher, and the new scar compact thing.

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

I am off to Japan in a few weeks and will have a few days in Osaka.

 

I am planning on buying a load of swanky fishing gear when I am over there, as they love fishing over there. However, my hotel in Osaka looks to be a 10 min walk from Gurkha and a few other shops so I will take a look when there. I doubt I will be buying any rifs, but I might try and pick up something Japanesey to show off when I get back home.