What's the next step to upgrading my currently stock AEG?

[ModernTimes]

I currently have a Specna Arms SA-C08 CORE™ Carbine AEG and I have replaced the stock M90 spring with a M115 spring.

 

I don't have a chronometer to test the improvement that was made but I was told by multiple people that this was a good quick way to upgrade the gun so I decided to go ahead and pick up a spring since it was cheap anyways.

 

From this point on I have no clue as to what I should upgrade next or buy. I'm not overly interested in cosmetic stuff I just want to focus on getting together the upgrades necessary for the gun to be an absolute beast on the field and focus the specs into range, super fast semi-auto fire (since I am considering a DMR build) and reliability (so the gun doesn't end up breaking after a year due to wear and tear on the components).

 

If anyone could give me some hints or pointers on what you think I should do next or how you think I should proceed it'd be greatly appreciated!

[Badgerlicious]

Unless you're going for a dmr you'll want to test that on a chrono. An m115 spring is going to be hot, unless you have the leakiest gun in the land.

 

Edit: and yes, get a chrono. It's the #1 thing you need when tuning your own gun. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Badgerlicious

[EDcase]

First thing to do is get a chrono 🙄

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by EDcase

[Cannonfodder]

A decent and properly set hop up is what I'd look at first as a higher fps doesn’t equal better range

 

Edit: as above, a chrono is essential if you're going to do your own upgrades. You don't want to spend ages working on the gun, just to get on site and find you can't use it 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Cannonfodder

[ak2m4]

My advice is put the M90 back in and just play with it for a few games.  Go and watch some upgrade video's on YT, so many great resources out there.  Lot of people rush into upgrades but only end up breaking their only AEG.  

 

You say you want a DMR, would this be a 2nd AEG or are you planning on converting the CORE?

[Speedbird_666]

The only thing I would change from the outset would be the stock motor, swapping it for an SHS/Rocket Hi-torque.

 

I would leave everything else as-is, and give the barrel a good clean.

 

And fucking around with springs without a chrono is a really bad idea.

[concretesnail]

another vote for getting a chrono, unless your not in the UK the spring your put in is likely over limits if your air seal is good.

[Jaylordofwaargh]

40 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

would leave everything else as-is, and give the barrel a good clean.

Cleaning rods have been tough to get hold of pre COVID let alone in current shipping climates. Please, keep your advice realistic. 😉

[Adolf Hamster]

to echo above the first thing you're gonna want is a chrono if you're going to be messing around with springs etc.

 

not only can it check the power is correct, but it's a good measurement for consistency and wether or not any remedial work done to the air seal has actually helped.

 

on the subject of which for range/accuracy you're gonna want to look at the following (in order of difficulty-performance ratio):

1. clean the barrel, and get into the habit of cleaning it regularly. a good rule of thumb is before every game day although sometimes even during a game day might be necessary (especially with a tighter bore)

2. feed it good quality heavier ammo, even the best gun in the world will shoot like shit if you stuff some bulldog 0.12's in it. how heavy is a toss up between your usual round count and your bank balance but generally the 0.28-0.32g range tends to be a good compromise for assault style play.

3. tying into 2 is to look at the hop, doesn't need to be difficult just a drop-in setup like the maple leaf macaron+omega nub combo when installed properly will help spin up the heavies. the longer feedlips can occasionally cause feeding issues in some guns and for those i'm a fan of the pdi w-hop with standard nub (although that'll struggle with really heavy ammo).

4. consistency- you'll need a chrono for this. you want to be addressing any potential leak so that every last molecule in the cylinder is going nowhere but down the barrel propelling the bb. the way to check this is to chrono a few shots and semi and see what sort of range of values you get, the smaller this range the better. this involves cracking open the gearbox too so a big step up in the difficulty.

5. energy- this is where you've jumped ahead to already, but the reason to wait until you're sure the air seal is good is you want to be sure the spring your using is only as strong as it needs to be to get the energy you need. if you have a bad leak and compensate with an overpowered spring you're just loading the box unnecessarily and with less resistance the piston slapping home isn't going to be happy. you don't need to be too exact, being a few fps under the limit won't be a massive loss in range but it might make the difference if the battered to crap filled with shattered nuprol bb's and soaked in mildew from sitting in a shed site chrono doesn't read so precise any more.

6. barrel- at this point the rest of the system should be getting good enough to justify a better barrel, gains aren't likely to be massive here (we're getting to the steep bit of the diminishing returns curve) but something like the ZCI 6.02 stainless barrels are cracking value for money. length wise just stick with the same length as stock, extending the barrel length won't help performance and indeed can actually make things worse if it starts under-voluming the system.

 

worth noting whilst i'm using the conventional "fps" terminology, that's actually "fps equivalent for a 0.2g bb", when using heavier ammo the raw fps number the chrono spits out will be lower, but don't be fooled into thinking that means less range, the energy (aka joules) is what matters (for site compliance) and even if it's travelling slower heavier ammo at the same energy does travel further (among other advantages).

 

as for semi-auto response, these days that's easier than ever thanks to the abundance of mosfets with precocking. that'll take a lot of the perceived delay out of the equation without messing with rate of fire in auto (and the potential problems driving a gearbox too fast can have). pair that with a decent motor (warhead brushless being the current kings for pickup speed, although they're not exactly cheap) and you're pretty much there already.

[Rogerborg]

Do the CORE models have the Orion gearbox?  If so, they're a poor choice for a DMR build, as they're notoriously prone to cracking. Well, I say that, but I'm using an Edge with an Orion as a 1.8J+ DMR and it hasn't let go yet.

 

An M115 spring is notionally going to get you 377fps / 1.32J, so congratulations, you've just built a Section 5 prohibited firearm, go directly to jail.

 

Really though, that's likely to be way too hot for any UK sites. Why on earth you'd put an M115 in it without a chrono boggles the mind. Do you know what it was shooting at with the M90?  Either way, I'd get that back in there before you play next.

 

 

1 hour ago, Speedbird_666 said:

The only thing I would change from the outset would be the stock motor, swapping it for an SHS/Rocket Hi-torque.

 

I would leave everything else as-is, and give the barrel a good clean.

 

And fucking around with springs without a chrono is a really bad idea.

 

I echo all of the above.  Or if you want to chisel a few £££ and aren't in a particular hurry, the Big Dragon M140 motors (or "mortors") from AliExpress can come in a bit cheaper and are pretty meaty.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

maple leaf macaron+omega nub combo

 

Yup.  I'd take careful note of what's already in there as well, I'm pretty sure that my Edge came with an unannounced flat hop bucking and nub rather than the more usual mounded bucking and cylinder nub.  Those work together as a pair and are unlikely to pay well with individual alternatives.  The CORE may not have a flat hop though, and you're unlikely to go far wrong with a Maple Leaf bucking and nub combination.

[ak2m4]

1 minute ago, Rogerborg said:

Why on earth you'd put an M115 in it without a chrono boggles the mind

 

Had a customer 2 weeks ago was short-stroking without a chrono 🙂

[Rogerborg]

1 minute ago, ak2m4 said:

Had a customer 2 weeks ago was short-stroking without a chrono 🙂

 

And expecting you to use some sort of retailer sorcery to tell him what muzzle energy he'd be seeing?

[Speedbird_666]

41 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Do the CORE models have the Orion gearbox?

 

No, they don't from what I've seen. Different OEMs. Black shell, looks a lot like an E&C.

 

[Rogerborg]

32 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

No, they don't from what I've seen. Different OEMs. Black shell, looks a lot like an E&C.

 

Ah, right.  Might actually be a better route to go then.

[ak2m4]

3 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

Black shell, looks a lot like an E&C.

 

Not an E&C, can tell by the screws, could be one of the new ZCI though.

Edited April 1, 2022 by ak2m4

[Speedbird_666]

48 minutes ago, ak2m4 said:

 

Not an E&C, can tell by the screws, could be one of the new ZCI though.

 

Either way, it looks like a decent enough GB for upgrades though. Not heard any major issues with the CORE series, I would have one over an Edge any day.

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

Not heard any major issues with the CORE series, I would have one over an Edge any day.

 

Agreed, the X-ASR mosfet in the Edge is largely pointless, and actually a problem with higher draw motors.

[Speedbird_666]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Agreed, the X-ASR mosfet in the Edge is largely pointless, and actually a problem with higher draw motors.

Yep, I had one shit itself with an SHS hi-torque. Kept shutting down in semi auto with an error light blinking. Pile’o’shite that thing, like the rest of the Orion Gearbox. I see Cores are coming with X-ASRs now. I would avoid those. 

 

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

23 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

Yep, I had one shit itself with an SHS hi-torque. Kept shutting down in semi auto with an error light blinking.

 

Snap, with a Big Dragon M160 on 7.4V pulling a 1.8J M130-ish spring.  Fine with that battery and spring and the stock motor, fine with an M90 spring and a Big Dragon M140 (at 7.4V or 11.1V), but craps out at pulling anything harder and faster.

 

A basic mosfet is great to allow more current flow, but only it if does allow more current flow.  This is ticking a feature box while not really doing anything useful.

[ModernTimes]

On 01/04/2022 at 07:40, ak2m4 said:

My advice is put the M90 back in and just play with it for a few games.  Go and watch some upgrade video's on YT, so many great resources out there.  Lot of people rush into upgrades but only end up breaking their only AEG.  

 

You say you want a DMR, would this be a 2nd AEG or are you planning on converting the CORE?

 

That's the thing, I haven't properly made my mind up yet so I'm still considering my options. I want a mixture of both. A gun that can be tuned to hit those ranges for a DMR setup but also a gun I can use close range CQB encounters.

[ModernTimes]

On 01/04/2022 at 09:33, Adolf Hamster said:

to echo above the first thing you're gonna want is a chrono if you're going to be messing around with springs etc.

 

not only can it check the power is correct, but it's a good measurement for consistency and wether or not any remedial work done to the air seal has actually helped.

 

on the subject of which for range/accuracy you're gonna want to look at the following (in order of difficulty-performance ratio):

1. clean the barrel, and get into the habit of cleaning it regularly. a good rule of thumb is before every game day although sometimes even during a game day might be necessary (especially with a tighter bore)

2. feed it good quality heavier ammo, even the best gun in the world will shoot like shit if you stuff some bulldog 0.12's in it. how heavy is a toss up between your usual round count and your bank balance but generally the 0.28-0.32g range tends to be a good compromise for assault style play.

3. tying into 2 is to look at the hop, doesn't need to be difficult just a drop-in setup like the maple leaf macaron+omega nub combo when installed properly will help spin up the heavies. the longer feedlips can occasionally cause feeding issues in some guns and for those i'm a fan of the pdi w-hop with standard nub (although that'll struggle with really heavy ammo).

4. consistency- you'll need a chrono for this. you want to be addressing any potential leak so that every last molecule in the cylinder is going nowhere but down the barrel propelling the bb. the way to check this is to chrono a few shots and semi and see what sort of range of values you get, the smaller this range the better. this involves cracking open the gearbox too so a big step up in the difficulty.

5. energy- this is where you've jumped ahead to already, but the reason to wait until you're sure the air seal is good is you want to be sure the spring your using is only as strong as it needs to be to get the energy you need. if you have a bad leak and compensate with an overpowered spring you're just loading the box unnecessarily and with less resistance the piston slapping home isn't going to be happy. you don't need to be too exact, being a few fps under the limit won't be a massive loss in range but it might make the difference if the battered to crap filled with shattered nuprol bb's and soaked in mildew from sitting in a shed site chrono doesn't read so precise any more.

6. barrel- at this point the rest of the system should be getting good enough to justify a better barrel, gains aren't likely to be massive here (we're getting to the steep bit of the diminishing returns curve) but something like the ZCI 6.02 stainless barrels are cracking value for money. length wise just stick with the same length as stock, extending the barrel length won't help performance and indeed can actually make things worse if it starts under-voluming the system.

 

worth noting whilst i'm using the conventional "fps" terminology, that's actually "fps equivalent for a 0.2g bb", when using heavier ammo the raw fps number the chrono spits out will be lower, but don't be fooled into thinking that means less range, the energy (aka joules) is what matters (for site compliance) and even if it's travelling slower heavier ammo at the same energy does travel further (among other advantages).

 

as for semi-auto response, these days that's easier than ever thanks to the abundance of mosfets with precocking. that'll take a lot of the perceived delay out of the equation without messing with rate of fire in auto (and the potential problems driving a gearbox too fast can have). pair that with a decent motor (warhead brushless being the current kings for pickup speed, although they're not exactly cheap) and you're pretty much there already.

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely be getting a chrono before I change anything then.

 

0.28 - 0.33 BBs? I always figured 0.25s were the hottest single in the area. A good mixture of range and speed but I'll have a look more into that.

 

Thanks for clarifying in regards to the barrel length. That was something I was premptively going to upgrade thinking extending it would increase my range.

 

So to sum up your advice.

Clean your barrel.

Buy a chrono.

Don't upgrade the barrel is necessarily but you can replace it.

Use good heavier BBs.

Maybe upgrade your hopper.

 

Is there a step by step way you think I should go about upgrading then? I appreciate you going into detail but this is a lot for some who knows basically nothing about this stuff.

On 01/04/2022 at 10:07, Rogerborg said:

Why on earth you'd put an M115 in it without a chrono boggles the mind

 

Spoke to a few sellers in Airsoft shops and people from different sources who all were telling me that getting an M115 would be fine. They said not to get M120 though.

 

I also went to a site after this upgrade and the gun fell within restrictions.

 

On 01/04/2022 at 10:07, Rogerborg said:

Big Dragon M140 motors (or "mortors") from AliExpress can come in a bit cheaper and are pretty meaty.

 

I was told some things are dependent on others so for example if I were to use a M140 spring on a stock motor it would lower its life due to the much increased resistance right? So if I replace the motor would I need to replace anything else? Also what would upgrading the motor do exactly? More power or would it just shoot faster?

 

Also I'll have a look into all the stuff you mentioned. Thanks for the advice. 👍

 

 

[ak2m4]

45 minutes ago, ModernTimes said:

Spoke to a few sellers in Airsoft shops and people from different sources who all were telling me that getting an M115 would be fine. They said not to get M120 though.

I also went to a site after this upgrade and the gun fell within restrictions.

 

If you went to the store and they advised you a M115 would be fine then they should have also mentioned that you have a compression issue somewhere in the gearbox or hop chamber and that needs to be fixed first.  Unfortunately you'll need to open the gearbox to troubleshoot.  You can do it yourself of course or try to find a decent tech.

 

My advice, forget about turning it into a DMR for now till you have more experience, unless you want to pay for someone else to do the work.

 

 

[Nick G]

12 minutes ago, ak2m4 said:

 

If you went to the store and they advised you a M115 would be fine then they should have also mentioned that you have a compression issue somewhere in the gearbox or hop chamber and that needs to be fixed first. 

 

 

Unless the OP isn't in the UK but playing somewhere with higher power limits

[Adolf Hamster]

1 hour ago, ModernTimes said:

0.28 - 0.33 BBs? I always figured 0.25s were the hottest single in the area. A good mixture of range and speed but I'll have a look more into that.

 

for a given energy, and assuming the gun can lift them, heavier ammo will always go further.

 

however if the gun struggles to lift a heavier bb, it can be a case that a lighter bb requiring less hop will be more effective, especially seeing as turning the hop up tends to result in increased resistance (and hence lower energy).

 

changing the hop to something like the maple leaf setup will make it easier to lift the heavies.

 

1 hour ago, ModernTimes said:

Is there a step by step way you think I should go about upgrading then? I appreciate you going into detail but this is a lot for some who knows basically nothing about this stuff.

 

the list i gave is in roughly the order of improvement-difficulty ratio, so the further down the list the more difficult the step is relative to the improvement you can get.

 

1, 2 and 3 generally aren't that tricky to do for AR pattern guns as pulling the hop is a relatively easy process.

 

step 4 is where you might want to hesitate, at least until you've expanded your collection a tad and have a reliable backup gun, rather than risk breaking something as a first-time teching experience.

[ak2m4]

20 minutes ago, Nick G said:

Unless the OP isn't in the UK but playing somewhere with higher power limits

 

That is true.... @ModernTimes where you based?